Official ProVari Radius Thread

[USMCotaku]

Well, that sets the price then because everybody needs at least one.

Wait, what? So the radius will cost one kidney? [emoji15]
[emoji38]

Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping

 

[Zen~]

If the manufacturer/seller makes/sells the mod and battery together, I would agree with this. If such a judgement is awarded to someone who purchases the device and battery separate (even if from the same site), I would call it gross miss justice, and a clear sign with what is wrong with our over litigious society today.

Well, I'm sorry to say, your legal opinion has no value.

A Manufacturer has the responsibility to make sure the device is safe. The manufacturer has to anticipate what that device will do with ANY cell that will fit in it. If there is a cell that can become dangerous in it, they have to put in the needed safeguards to prevent that cell from doing harm. And you cannot get the consumer to hold the manufacturer harmless in the event the consumer makes a mistake. Contributory negligence is a fallacy in a product liability case.

I respect that some people understand the laws of physics, and engineering principles... but what the arm-chair engineers and well intentioned but misinformed EEs don't understand is that designing a product is a whole lot more than applying theory to a problem. Sure, you can build prototypes that way, and heck, they will even work... but when the rubber hits the road and the bullets get real, the manufacturer has an obligation to make the product safe, and if they fail to meet that criteria they WILL be held accountable.

Yes there are MANY small companies making devices that do not follow these best manufacturing practicies, and they are making devices that put their companies, and the consumers that purchase the goods, at risk. The retailer is also in the line of fire.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it... it's the way it is. All the logic, mathematical formulas and theoretical discussions of what SHOULD be possible doesn't amount to a damned hill of beans in the real world where one single lawsuit ends your company and puts dozens of people out of work. There are "best design and manufacturing practices" that need to be followed. Very few companies in cottage industries even know the exist, it doesn't mean that they don't need to be followed.

Again, you can say that the end-user is in some way responsible, but that doesn't make it so. Consumer products need to be designed for the lowest common denominator. And saying "this is an advanced user device" in no way limits the liability putting the burdon on the user.

It's just the way it is.

I just don't see 50 watts as pushing the limits of some of the batteries on the market

If you don't know the overhead of the circuit, you have no way of calculating that with pure speculation. And even then, if there is a battery that cannot safely drive it to that limit, it should not be released to the public.

.....and, if this IS a dual battery mod (which I hope it is) then 50 is well under any safety margin.

In the pictures shown... there is no way on earth that there is room for dual cells.

 

[stevegmu]

As a general rule the chemistry itself is as safe as lion, the problems come into them with physical damage mostly. as in a torn wrapper or covering. like anything though the cheaper funky lipos have been known to be unstable especially what some people use in quadcopters, but just like a lion you have trustfires and vtc5s. MOST of the lipo issues ive seen have been from wither grossly overdrawing them or beating them to the ground. There are also cases where leaving them plugged intro a charger, where the charger doesn't automatically shut off and them they'll have a catastrophic failure. its another thing that people just need to research and understand without jumping to just things they've heard. Laptops and electric cars use lions, drones, RC's and robotics use lipo's which ones get stressed more?

I have dropped my mods so many times I can't say how many. If jarring a lipo with a fall makes them unstable they really shouldn't be used in mods...
How about temperature changes? Do mods with lipos shut themselves off like my phone does when it's too cold to safely operate?

 

[Zen~]

The judge is an idiot, I can't use the word I want but you know where I'm going

I am sick of seeing that foolishness, nannystate doodoo! What happened to personal responsibility??? Its not the cars fault that I got in a wreck, or pushed it past its limits

I was waiting for the car comment!
CARS ARE LARGELY EXEMPT from many product liability issues because the driver must PROVE they are able to drive them before they are allowed on the road and EVERY car manufactured that is sold in this country has been fully scrutinized for safety in design before being allowed to be sold in the country... MANY euro cars are not street legal in this country for that very reason, and there are auto makers in India and Asia that have not been able to pass underwriting for sale to our USA consumers.

In most states, proof of insurance is also required.

IF you crash the car... you ARE responsible for your actions unless there is a massive system failure that can be proven by an engineers report.

NOW, if you want to pass a test before vaping, I'm sure the FDA would just LOVE being able to license us to vape.

 

[DPLongo22]

Glad the battery question got answered, I am totally in on this new mod, after the holidays...

Yeah, E. Me too (glad...)

[emoji54]

 

[stevegmu]

I didn't say jarring them, I said a torn wrapper the boards shut it down when it gets hot like a phone, that's the phones board not the battery.

So these mods with lipos have a function to shut themselves down when they get too cold or too hot? Somehow I doubt it, when reverse battery protection in China mods just came to the party...

Yes, but if they fall, there is a greater chance of the bag tearing than traditional batteries tearing from a fall...

They are a dangerous option and shouldn't be used in my opinion, but I understand some can't get a good vape without the clouds...

 

[stevegmu]

Ummmm again, board is from the USA... why do keep sending them to china, yes evolv has had temp protection since the dna30 which was also a USA board. Not everything above 20w is from china

So are some American brand cars, which are junk also. They can't make a chip which functions properly; how would I trust their safety features?
They also don't make a mod...

 

[USMCotaku]

Well, I'm sorry to say, your legal opinion has no value.

A Manufacturer has the responsibility to make sure the device is safe. The manufacturer has to anticipate what that device will do with ANY cell that will fit in it. If there is a cell that can become dangerous in it, they have to put in the needed safeguards to prevent that cell from doing harm. And you cannot get the consumer to hold the manufacturer harmless in the event the consumer makes a mistake. Contributory negligence is a fallacy in a product liability case.

I respect that some people understand the laws of physics, and engineering principles... but what the arm-chair engineers and well intentioned but misinformed EEs don't understand is that designing a product is a whole lot more than applying theory to a problem. Sure, you can build prototypes that way, and heck, they will even work... but when the rubber hits the road and the bullets get real, the manufacturer has an obligation to make the product safe, and if they fail to meet that criteria they WILL be held accountable.

Yes there are MANY small companies making devices that do not follow these best manufacturing practicies, and they are making devices that put their companies, and the consumers that purchase the goods, at risk. The retailer is also in the line of fire.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it... it's the way it is. All the logic, mathematical formulas and theoretical discussions of what SHOULD be possible doesn't amount to a damned hill of beans in the real world where one single lawsuit ends your company and puts dozens of people out of work. There are "best design and manufacturing practices" that need to be followed. Very few companies in cottage industries even know the exist, it doesn't mean that they don't need to be followed.

Again, you can say that the end-user is in some way responsible, but that doesn't make it so. Consumer products need to be designed for the lowest common denominator. And saying "this is an advanced user device" in no way limits the liability putting the burdon on the user.

It's just the way it is.


If you don't know the overhead of the circuit, you have no way of calculating that with pure speculation. And even then, if there is a battery that cannot safely drive it to that limit, it should not be released to the public.



In the pictures shown... there is no way on earth that there is room for dual cells.

So, by that logic, if a company produces a mod that requires a 20a cdr battery, and clearly states so, you would still feel them to be responsible if someone puts a 5a lcr in it and blows it up? Just because it fits?

Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping

 

[Zen~]

Again common sense and personal responsibility take precedence its not a judge, senator, elected official or anyone else responsibility to make sure I know what I'm doing before I do it.
We have a fundamental disagreement on where the law and government needs to but out. That's my opinion, obviously I can't fly to California and change a law in a state unjust got another reason to never visit.

I'm not sure we disagree in principle, Actually.

I don't think things SHOULD be the way they are. Unfortunately, they ARE the way they are, and disagreeing with them therefore ignoring them is a surefire way to put a company into bankruptcy. The judge isn't going to listen if I say, "yeah, I know how the law reads, but that idiot put in a beat up battery with a lower amp-rating and blew off his face... he should know better"

And the judge will say: "Could you have prevented it?"

And then I say... "Not and have it be at 50 watts like he wanted"

Then the judge says: "Would there have been a lower limit that would have been safe?"

So then I get all clever and say... "Technically, ANY batter can explode at ANY time, so even if I lowered the wattage it still COULD explode"

Then the judge says: "So you KNOW it could explode, and you sold it anyway?"

And then I lose and I file for bankruptcy and my employees learn to say "Would you like fries with your meal?"

So, by that logic, if a company produces a mod that requires a 20a cdr battery, and clearly states so, you would still feel them to be responsible if someone puts a 5a lcr in it and blows it up? Just because it fits?

Not my logic... the legal systems logic... consumers are not to be held responsible. Just the way it is. This is not my circus and THOSE are not my clowns... sorry.

 

[RebelGolfer72]

Never heard of a Variant and DNA 200 mods are disposable because Evolv can't make reliable chips, and the mods they are put in are made in China...

Variant, made by Vicious Ant... http://shop.vaporsource.com/vicious-ant-variant-titanium

DNA200 mods are not all made in China... Ummmm lets see... Protovapor, Hanamodz, Hobo Customs, Cloudmaker, Opus, Boxer, Steam Monkey, Dogmods, Litt Up Customs, Militia mods, Vapor Lips and Lost Vape are all made in the US. Add in a few local modder who are selling them... So 12 big US made mods vs 5 Chinese made boxes (VaporShark (which is a US company),Cigreen, Hcigar and Vapecig and Hotcig). http://vaping360.com/dna-200-box-mods/
Sorry, your argument doesn't fly here.

No, I won't buy a DNA powered mod after reading so many posts and threads about the problems. I don't want the headache. America makes junky products too. Large lipo mods are not only disposable, I don't consider that type of battery to be safe for vaping in anything other than eGos...

Soooo a $700 mod is a disposable mod? I would really like to know what kind of job you have to call $700 anything disposable http://shop.vaporsource.com/vicious-ant-variant-titanium

 

[stevegmu]

Variant, made by Vicious Ant... http://shop.vaporsource.com/vicious-ant-variant-titanium

DNA200 mods are not all made in China... Ummmm lets see... Protovapor, Hanamodz, Hobo Customs, Cloudmaker, Opus, Boxer, Steam Monkey, Dogmods, Litt Up Customs, Militia mods, Vapor Lips and Lost Vape are all made in the US. Add in a few local modder who are selling them... So 12 big US made mods vs 5 Chinese made boxes (VaporShark (which is a US company),Cigreen, Hcigar and Vapecig and Hotcig). http://vaping360.com/dna-200-box-mods/
Sorry, your argument doesn't fly here.


Soooo a $700 mod is a disposable mod? I would really like to know what kind of job you have to call $700 anything disposable http://shop.vaporsource.com/vicious-ant-variant-titanium

Never heard of them. I wouldn't pay $5 for a box mod, let alone $700. I get frustrated with junk which doesn't work and toss it...

 

[Zen~]

Well, bed time for me... Good night all....

VariAnt wasn't made in USA, by the way, and it completely sucked... may as well be disposable.

 

[FringeChief68]

Not everyone owns a computer or even a smartphone. And some that do own them, don't have time to research Engineering and battery safety. And some people just don't understand it when they do read it.
Advanced Vaper what exactly is the definition of an Advance Vaper, how does a person know if they are one
I agree that it's up to the manufacturer to protect their customers that don't have a full understanding of all the dangers.

 

[USMCotaku]

I think the actual law disagrees.....


http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Product+Liability

A manufacturer has the duty to make the product as safe as possible. If the manufacturer cannot do so, he has the obligation to adequately warn users and buyers of the dangers that exist.

A consumer who ignores hazards will not succeed in an action alleging product liability.

A consumer who clearly misuses a product cannot recover if an injury results. For example, a person who disregards a printed warning that nail polish remover is for external use only cannot blame the manufacturer for making an imperfect product if he or she ingests it.

Basically, if the damage is caused by the consumer ignoring the warnings of the manufacturer that use of the wrong battery could cause damage/harm, the law is written that liability is then on the consumer.

Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping

 

[RebelGolfer72]

Not everyone owns a computer or even a smartphone. And some that do own them, don't have time to research Engineering and battery safety. And some people just don't understand it when they do read it.
Advanced Vaper what exactly is the definition of an Advance Vaper, how does a person know if they are one
I agree that it's up to the manufacturer to protect their customers that don't have a full understanding of all the dangers.

You are right that many consumers don't have access to all of the knowledge...and here is where, and the only place where I believe some responsibility falls on the retailer and manufacturer-- they have the responsibility to have safety guidelines printed in documentation with the product, and retailers should also emphasize that.

But... There needs to be a point where common sense prevails. Point is, judges are automagically ruling in favor of the idiots for no other reason than vaping is under attack. Period. Think I'm just trying to argue? Boil some water and make a cup of tea, now chug it immediately after it comes off the stove. When you get burned, try and sue Home Depot for selli you the stove, sue Williams-Sonoma for selling you the tea kettle, sue AllClad for making the tea kettle, sue Lipton for making the tea bag, sue Amana for making the stove, sue Columbia gas for powering the stove, sue the city for providing the water and tell me how many of those would be liable for wha happened to you.

 

[RebelGolfer72]

I think the actual law disagrees.....


http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Product+Liability







Basically, if the damage is caused by the consumer ignoring the warnings of the manufacturer that use of the wrong battery could cause damage/harm, the law is written that liability is then on the consumer.

Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping

But, all of that goes out the window when it comes to something that is demonized in the public eye...like guns and vaping

 

[FringeChief68]

Again I have a fundamental disagreement with the concept, before I buy anything, I make sure I know what dangers are involved. PV, power tool, firearm, bow and arrow..
before I bought my first mod, I spoke to real life humans, multiple humans to make sure person 'a' wasn't just trying to sell me something.
I didn't even think to look online, so I found real people to talk to..... why? Because I had no clue what it was or what I was doing, and because I believe firmly in knowing what I'm doing before I do it, and because I believe in personal responsibility.

That goes back to time and understanding, and some people don't have them.
A person shouldn't have to go out and get a engineering and chemistry degree because they want to stop smoking and try vaping.

 

[USMCotaku]

Perhaps, but any judge that doesn't follow the law due to bias, needs to be removed from his/her position

Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping

 

[kates]

Woke up this morning to lots of posts!
From my perspective when I buy a provari I ask myself 2 questions:
1) Do I like the way it looks?
2) (if the answer to 1) is yes) Have I got the spare cash to buy it?
I don't need to as if it has enough watts as I vape at under 10, I don't need to question reliability, quality and most importantly safety. I KNOW that if I buy from Provape I will not need to worry as if it's not safe it won't work. Provape aren't making mods in order to run all the tanks on the market - they are making mods that will run any tank that will operate within their safety parameters. If you want to vape tanks which need anything that a provape mod can't give you - then a provape mod is not for you (and that may be disappointing but there are plenty of mods out there that will do what you want). I like to do a bit of rebuilding etc. and I make sure my batteries are a reputable make, sound, charge responsibly etc. but I really do not want to worry about anything else battery related or start doing sums. I know the radius will suit me as the provari mini does more than I need and I hope it's enough for lots of you - but one thing I am certain of - whatever watts the radius is capable of will I am sure be the exact amount that provape feels can be delivered safely and no more. Personal responsibility is good - but any manufacturer who prioritises safety gets my money.

 

[RebelGolfer72]

Sooo by the logic in here, I should be able to go out, take a ProVari 2.5, and find the crappiest 18650 flat top battery, and use a chunk of aluminum foil and a magnet to make it a button top and work in the ProVari....drop it a few times so that the foil shorts out the battery and the mod grenades......then sue the Vape shop who sold me the ProVari and ProVape for making the mod that forced me to improvise a battery?


Also, if ProVape can have their circuit design tell the quality of your connections...and them as well as others can tell you the health of your battery, there is absolutely NO reason that it couldn't shut itself down if it sensed a battery that was running hot, or being pushed beyond its limits. A battery being pushed too hard will sag in voltage much more than a battery that can take the draw.