Oh boy...Can O' Worms...

[Bitter Jeweler]

Thanks for all the replies/insight. Much appreciated!

Just get a Reo..welcome

No.
Yeah. Maybe. We'll see. Probably will. LOL
I have to say, I wasn't anticipating the hobby aspect of vaping. Not smoking is awesome. The other side of this is kinda fun!

I gotta say I am not a fan with the OCC head and I didn't try the sub ohm head yet! It seems to take forever for the coil to heat and that results in a very delayed vape. I plan to try the re buildable deck today and see if that works better. I want to love it but time will tell! So far I prefer my nauty minis!
And at this point, nothing can touch the overall performance of my REO.
And this is all part of our search for the best vape experience for each of us and our personal sweet vape spots!

Uh huh. I said to myself, "Self, your never gonna make your own coils and wick, and stuff..." But the OOC heads are really different, and not being pleased made my try the rebuildable deck, as learned how easy it is. Unfortunately, you just put into words what I see, but couldn't point out...Yes! The DELAY! So today I let it fire a couple seconds before I draw, and that helps. That might change with different coils/wire?

I love the nautilus minis. The box just made them better. I didn't anticipate that. That's a win, while I continue chasing my perfect vape.

(also, another check mark in the REO box) LOL

There's a lot of reading here and it's early lol. I just wanted to say I'm obsessed with subtanks. I run my .5 around 16-17 watts. They're not really made for super high wattage. I get great flavor and clouds right there at 16 watts. Everyone has their preferences, and this sounds like it's just a lot different from what you're used to.

Thanks Dan. Yes, it is rather different. I appreciate hearing how others are experiencing them, and guidance in use.

Oh, yeah, watts is your starting point in vaping, not volts, unless your coils are the same resistance. Watts are heat. Mathematically, watts = voltage squared divided by resistance. In the example you gave for the nautilus, that would be 4.8 X 4.8/ 1.8 = 12.8 W. When you shot for that same voltage on the 0.5 ohm coil, you did 4.8 X 4.8 / 0.5 = 46.1W. That’s almost 4 times the heat, kinda like trying to bake a potato at 2000 degrees. The folks that do that, put so much heat into a juice, are using bigger wire (heat distribution is spread over a larger area), have learned how to wick it properly, know how to drip/feed to keep the wicks supersaturated with juice, and balance it with a lot of air flow.

Back off to 10-12W on new devices, especially new tanks, nudge up from there until the flavor/vapor suits you.

THANKS! It's funny how quickly you get used to using one measurement to guide the experience. Change is hard!
Thanks for explaining the electrical mechanics. Very helpful!

Watts/volts, meh...I don't mess with regulated stuff so all I'll chime in and say is there's a lot more to it than that. Coil placement for one - gauge of wire, type of wire - inner diameter of the coil. Everything affects flavor. It's both fun and frustrating sometimes til' you find what works best for you in a given device

I started reading about coils and wicking last night. So many variables!
Yes, fun and frustrating. But mostly fun! I really didn't think I was going to go this deep into vaping. I think that's why people like me shy away from rebuildables. But I'm in it now, and the more I learn from you folks is helping me enjoy going down this path. Perhaps being a jeweler gives me a leg up (pun intended) in coil making.

I've done the whole sub-ohm and high current circus. In the end it's not for me.
I like mouth to lung, like I used to drag that disgusting tobacco cigarette before.

Now I settle for my erl mini/nano's. I coil them all the same (28 AWG, 6 turns on 3 mm).
I get a constant and satisfying vape every single time. Only takes about a minute to find the sweet spot for a new juice.

I'm still open to all of this. Time will tell where I land. If I had to make a decision right now, from this brief experience, I'd pass on sub ohms. But I'll play for a bit and see. I like mouth to lung too. It's interesting that how you inhale is a flavor variable. I didn't even realize people smoked cigs directly to lung. I think I would choke to death!

 

[Just1Fixxx]

Have no idea what's up with the OCC heads since I rebuilt them...and I hate .5 ohm coils too, too hot!!

I've been playing around with my Subtank Mini and CLS the past few days. I have found that the 0.5 @ 12.1W with the airflow wide open produces a nice, cool vape. YMMV

 

[USMCotaku]

I agree. I hear about complaints of sub tanks being too hot.... I've not experienced this. Even at 25 watts, with airflow fully open...i get warm at most. On a mech, even the .5 ohm coils stay cool to me
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.

 

[Mogar]

About the throat hit/ nic, when you go to a different mod it will hit different. With the Subtank I had to drop my nic from 12 mg to 8 mg. Each one is different.
I also get vapors tongue from time to time, but as a DYI (I make my own liquid) this is easily overcome by making a different type of juice. Custard to pie to pink lemonade and milkshake. When/if you find one that is getting muted switch to a different type. You can stick to sweet, but change to a savory from sweet etc.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

I'm not having a problem with the heat of the vape. I actually prefer it feeling nicely warm.
Where I am having a problem is getting the draw I like, like from the Nautilus mini, which is decently long.
I am having trouble finding the balance with the airflow, and taste with the Subtank mini.
I was hoping for better flavor with the subtank, but I'm just finding better flavor with the Nautilus right now.

Even restricting the airflow to the smallest hole, with the wide bore tip I kind just get a short hit. Which isn't satisfying psychologically.
Wide open it's just a quick huff (all mouth to lung). But I get plenty of vapor regardless. I really can't even experiment much because I get too much nic. I ordered tons of juice at 6mg, and some 0mg to cut my 12mg. Then I'll be able to experiment more.

I also have another tip with a smaller bore, and its better.

What I am finding with the .5 coiled subtanks, is I end up doing straight to lung inhales, and it's funny how they taste different than mouth to lung, but the exhale kills me.

SO. MANY. VARIABLES!

First order of business is lower nic, so I can play more. That's where I'm at, I think.
Even if I don't like subohming, I'm cool with that. I like the rebuildable head, and will experiment with higher ohm coils, and really get a feel for whats going on.

The good news is I got my taste back for Strawnilla. It's still a different taste between the two tanks. But again, I can only hit the subohm a few times, and I am woozy.

 

[gopher_byrd]

@Bitter Jeweler you are just a month into your vape journey and your taste buds are just starting to recover from the tobacco abuse. Actually you are far more advanced than I was at the same point. The equipment changes in just 18 months is amazing. When I first started I thought sub-ohm, who needs to do that??? Lung hitting, who needs to do that??? Now, I can't remember the last time I used a coil above one ohm. I still mouth to lung most of the time, but sometimes those deep wide open lung hits with the right juice are just the ticket. I guess I'm saying give yourself time. You are still early in your vape journey, you need to experiment to find what is right for you! I also think time will change what is right for you. Enjoy your journey, you have found the best juice on the planet IMHO! Once you find the right equipment for you the sky's the limit!

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

OMG!

HAPPY DANCE!
​

Ok...Revelation!
It was pretty much just the nicotine that gave me problems. It might be the PG as well, but we'll test that hypothesis out later.
Right now I am vaping Max VG Strawberry Yogurt (yum!) and a vanilla custard. One is on a .7ohm coil, and the other is a .5ohm coil.
I went crazy and added two loops to the supplied .5ohm coil to see what it did.

I LOVE IT!
I've found the right draw/air mix. I found the right wattage. And I found really nice flavors.
Oh, these are also only 3mg nicotine juices. I wanted something really low so I could play and not keel over.

I went out with my better half, and a friend (who we just turned on to vaping) and we all have the same rigs. They both had 6mg Nic in their juices, and it was good for me. The nicotine was all I tasted, or was really coming through and obscuring the other flavors in my 12mg juices. Theirs were also varied PG/VG, so I know I can rule that out.

What was really funny, was my friend went and got a bunch of juices, and she had one that was lime something, and I tried it first and about died. It had to be at a minimum of 18mg nicotine, if not 24mg or maybe 60mg LOL. IT. WAS. NASTY! But it was THAT taste that I was tasting last night. Just way more of it! It was like chewing three packs of Nicorette gum, all at once. I never liked chewing one piece of Nicorette, so there ya' go.

I can't wait to get my order from Nicoticket, to dilute all the juice I have, and some new flavors in lower nic.
I found a happy place in the subOhm world, and it's comfortable and warm. I can even do lung hits, and make big clouds.
I'll be learning more about building my own coils now, and experimenting with the ohms, and seeing if I find the sweetest spot for me.

@gopher_byrd I'm not impatient but I am excited about this, so yeah, I'm movin' forward quickly. Which is funny, because I wasn't interested in sub ohms, nor building coils, and wicking. But here I am. LOL tell me more about this REO? ROFLMAO! Nah, not yet. What I have is real nice right now. I'm going to enjoy it. I can't wait for my taste buds to recover from smoking. But I do have some good strong benchmark juices. Strawnilla, and now ACB. ACB is deep, and intense, and warm...Mmmmmm.

I actually started vaping way back in 2009/2010. I don't remember the name of my "kit". It was a round tube, much like the spinner, even the button is the same, and the same charger, but no variable voltage. It had a coil, and then you put juice in the little "foam" bit in the drip tip, then pushed that down onto the coil. Boy, that was messy and inconvenient. This was way back when Ms. T's Bakery had fast shipping and excellent juices, and customers. LOL

I was sad to see what become of her. But it was actually because of that mess that I found Nickoticket. I was looking for a Snickerdoodle "as good as" hers, and I found a thread on this forum, and somebody suggested Nicoticket!

Nickoticket ROCKS!

 

[Kent Brooks]

Also, since in generalized terms, wattage is the amount of energy "heat" at the coil. On your spinner, the higher voltage still equals less wattage then you are running on the .5 coil

If you start out low on your watts, and bump it up, you will find a point where you can tell if you go higher or draw longer you will get a burnt hit....if you back your wattage down from there, your coil and wick will be fine.
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.

Crazy interesting thought process in this thread - see the trouble shooting?

 

[Robert Cromwell]

 

[Scottitude]

Great update, glad you found your sweet spot, for the time being anyway.

Interesting that you mentioned Ms. T's Bakery as sort of a comparison, or better yet, a contrast. She ended up doing everything wrong and Clark & his team seem to be doing everything right; superior quality, competitive prices, crazy sales, consistent customer engagement and rapid communication.

Enjoy the journey ahead as it continues to unfold.

 

[MattyRetro]

One thing that u may have already learned is once you get a burnt taste, the coil is pretty much toast. Cotton is very unforgiving when it burns. Good luck in finding your optimal settings. Two years and 30+ devices/tank combos and I'm still trying new settings and hardware. It's truly never ending unless you just get a REO.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Boy, I can't wait to get my Nicoticket juice!

For an "update", I am actually blown away by the subtanks, using the RBA decks.
I am getting the flavor intensity I have been chasing. I've worked out that sometimes it wasn't the heat of the coil that was the problem, it was the wicking of the juice. It just wasn't wicking fast enough for my use style. On some juice, I am adding 4-5 drops of water to the filled tank, and I have no more problem taking rapid hits at the wattage (heat) that I want.

I also went to a B&M vape store (for the first time) and had fun sampling juice. They had a really slick setup, and it was fun hanging out with other customers in the lounge. I went mainly to buy some wire so I can experiment with coil building, but they were out of the 3 gauges I wanted. This is the biggest peeve I have with small businesses. Not keeping popular items in stock. I own my own business, I think I am allowed to be critical.

Anyway, I bought 26 gauge twisted Kanthal wire, and fought with it a little. Of course the twited wire just confused my whole understanding of Ohms, and resistance! Found I could anneal the wire on the gas stove burner. Made some better coils .4 Ohm. Rockin'!

Oh, I also bought a Magma RDA, because it was $10...

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

Boy, I can't wait to get my Nicoticket juice!

For an "update", I am actually blown away by the subtanks, using the RBA decks.
I am getting the flavor intensity I have been chasing. I've worked out that sometimes it wasn't the heat of the coil that was the problem, it was the wicking of the juice. It just wasn't wicking fast enough for my use style. On some juice, I am adding 4-5 drops of water to the filled tank, and I have no more problem taking rapid hits at the wattage (heat) that I want.

I also went to a B&M vape store (for the first time) and had fun sampling juice. They had a really slick setup, and it was fun hanging out with other customers in the lounge. I went mainly to buy some wire so I can experiment with coil building, but they were out of the 3 gauges I wanted. This is the biggest peeve I have with small businesses. Not keeping popular items in stock. I own my own business, I think I am allowed to be critical.

Anyway, I bought 26 gauge twisted Kanthal wire, and fought with it a little. Of course the twited wire just confused my whole understanding of Ohms, and resistance! Found I could anneal the wire on the gas stove burner. Made some better coils .4 Ohm. Rockin'!

Oh, I also bought a Magma RDA, because it was $10...

And so it begins....

Happy for you Bitter!!

 

[TX Foilhead]

I was where you are back in March, now I've got 2 REO's and looking for another to hold my 3rd Nuppin V2.

There's no good comparison between the Nautilus the Subtank and the Nuppin/REO. They're all different and everything tastes different in each one. If your using something like Virus that changes on its on it's even harder to make them work similar because you don't really know what it should taste like at that moment.

I will say that after a week with my Reos I'm back to using my Subtank because like an idiot I decided I could build a something even better and after having good success from my first working build to my second. I was wrong and have suffered for almost 2 days while I try to find the time to correct my mistake.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Yeah, I'm seeing that there are a lot of variables that effect taste.
I went and got some regular wire tonight and had a better experience making coils.
I was also told a way I've not yet seen anyone wick a subtank here.
It's working well.

I was following the 'cut your wick at a 45° angle to get all the fibers evenly on the deck' method. Which makes sense for the older subtank RBA with the juice channels.
But it seemed pointless for the new model, with no juice channels, and holes in the cover. So the girl at the shop told me to just pull the wick straight through the holes and coil, and cut the excess off on the outside, nearly (but not) flush to the cover.

Still so many variables. Still hard to nail down what worked great...was it the coil, was it the wicking?

Then there's the magma...I haven't experience better flavor with it yet. But then, there's probably more or different variables there. I've been searching trying to find out what is "ideal" for build that.

Fun stuff though. I'm enjoying the process thoroughly!
I think it will be a while before I think about a Reo though.

I think I'm getting better flavor, which is what I've been after. I'm able to tell the difference between strawberry yogurt juice and a strawberry cream.


Oh, then there is this method...

 

[Alawot]

Here's a link that will help insure you always have wire. Savings is huge from what the B&M shop probably charges you for wire.

link removed, but jeweler got it. anyone need, PM me

 

[Mogar]

One thing you might think about, if you are using Max VG juice, is to drill a small hole in the middle of the RBA cup over the juice channels (remember in the middle just over the threads). The new RBA tanks do not have juice channels any more, they all only have the hole. Ive been drilling holes in mine for a while now and since then, I have never had a single dry hit. Just a tip...

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

Here's a link that will help insure you always have wire. Savings is huge from what the B&M shop probably charges you for wire.

I agree with this but careful with the links....maybe a link to a thread on ECF would be better? It's internet traffic stuff. See the pinned thread about outside links. I'm not going to clip your wings but keep this in mind....

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Link saved. Feel free to remove it if necessary.
(Thanks for the link!)

@Mogar Yeah, I've been reading a lot and saw that tip. I did drill mine out.
Do you still wick it bending the the wick down, and having the ends flush to the deck?
Passing the wick straight through the holes and the coil is new to me, but working quite well. It makes sense to me having the juice enter at the ends of the fibers rather than through the side of them. But you can't do that with the threaded cap easily.

 

[Mogar]

I don't pass the wick through the holes. I put a paperclip under the wick so it touches the wall of the cup and bend the wick and cut it so it still touches the lower end of the deck. When I pull the clip out I put just enough juice on it to make it stay in place and replace the cup and make sure the hole is covered before putting the cap on.