FDA Ohio - Brown and 7 Other Senators Press FDA to Take Action

[DC2]

Not sticking up for either of you, just saying that some people are very *reactive* and some people aren't. (One of my brothers is very reactive and he is pretty stressed out all the time. and many of the scenarios he worries about never come to pass.

That's understandable, but the FDA regulations WILL come to pass in some form.

Anybody that doesn't think so is deluded.
I think you know that.

My problem is the aggressive act of discouraging people from TRYING to do something about it.

I understand that some might think actions taken are at times more harmful than helpful.
That's a valid topic for debate, and could prove to be a very informative one.

And those that feel that way should be more involved, rather than just being snipers.

 

[Racehorse]

(and in the past, some of the "harrangue-ing" of members being told "you are not doing anything!" and such, because they are not posting in these topics or aren't bragging about the many interventions they have taken to help vaping (they may be doing so quietly and humbly) has caused some definite STRESS....I know because I've read those posts over 3+ years and those vapers feel like they're being "accused" of something. )

Like everything else here, opinions are wide and different. Everyone has their own way of vaping, communicating, participating, and their own way of activism as well.

Being told that they have to march to a certain drummer, and do it a certain way, to word things a certain way, and "jump" when somebody says jump..........just doesn't seem to "fit" with the general non-judgemental attitude that we all like to enjoy here.

I especially had problems during the last prez election when there was an announcement on the board by an influential member that told us who to vote for. I think that is going way too far and I'm not too interesting in being "group-influenced" like that. Don't tell me who to vote for by making it into a one-item issue, complete with gobs of fear-mongering to go with it.

Because that will just turn me off. I actually know some long time members who cancelled their acccounts when that happened. I know because I received "goodbye" PMs from them.........and they were good people and helpful to newbies and very much pro vaping. But they felt very uncomfortable and unaccepted because they did not share the prevailing political views.

Seems to me that is not what we want. At least, I sure don't!

i am actually thinking of not every using NJOY because they have paid for membership into what I consider a right wing think tank, and those politics, while supportive of vaping, don't support a whole lot of other issues that are important to me! It's not all just about vaping ya know?

 

[Kent C]

and in the past, some of the "harrangue-ing" of members being told "you are not doing anything!"

I've gotten that (and have seen it done to others) as well. It's done to some vendors without the knowledge of what some vendors have done - Vicki at cignot is a good example, but there are others.

 

[Katya]

It's not all just about vaping ya know?

On this forum, it is.

This is an e-cigarette forum.

I don't see anything wrong with posting lists of state and local politicians who are vehemently and actively anti-vaping and try to either ban it altogether or make it prohibitively expensive. I actually find it helpful.

We are now fighting another battle in California which may decide the future of vaping not only in our state but also nationwide. You know, as goes California....

There is a thread in Legislation forum covering the hearings and the proposed bills and everybody, from CASAA, Notblowingsmoke, Vaping Militia to individual members are constantly listing names of various committee members who need to be contacted and their positions (and likely votes) on the pending bills.

Every organization (and every individual), from Planned Parenthood to NRA has the right to endorse candidates--and they do. Why should ECF be excluded? It's just information--you don't have to follow their recommendations.

 

[Racehorse]

We are now fighting another battle in California which may decide the future of vaping not only in our state but also nationwide. You know, as goes California....

Since there have already been states where vaping has been put under regulations, I don't know how you can say "as goes california"

We already went thru that in AR and the way they did it here, from a money-making aspect for the state (yet terrible for vapers) it was done rather brilliantly......I mean every i dotted and t crossed.

So other states will be copying it.


Ordering eliquid online is now against the law here and can only be sold by those w/existing Retail Cigarette & Tobacco Permit, Wholesale Tobacco Permit or Manufacturer Tobacco Permit. (It won't be taxed though until that comes up again about 2 years from now and they have no plans to restrict hardware or DIY stuff.) Our gov is hooked up with some kinda Homeland Security thing, so that is why I say it was expertly written....I mean that in the sense that any other state would only wish to have all their ducks in a row like how he did it. (not supporting it, just saying if they wanted to set up everything to make taxing really easy, with absolutely zero extra permits or hassles, this would be the Bill to copy). It basically just treats eliquid as a tobacco product.


As for partisan politics, the legislators who wrote and sponsored this Bill here were 2 Republicans.


The other state that looks to be nearing even more truly DRACONIAN vaping laws (probably the worst I've seen so far to the point ) is Indiana. Which went into effect in July 2015 (but has a year before being totally installed).

All those bills were authored and sponsored by Republicans.

3 Republicans for this one:
https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/bills/senate/539#digest-heading

and this one:
https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/bills/house/1432


I could post more of these, but my point is that asking vapers to support a certain party seems a little "out of touch" in many ways.

Because it is no longer strictly a partisan thing, you have to vote out each individual legislator. And in some states they are Rs and others they are Ds.

 

[Racehorse]

It's done to some vendors without the knowledge of what some vendors have done - Vicki at cignot is a good example, but there are others.

I did not know this, but it sure does surprise me......she is one of the best, most customer-service driven vendors in the business, not to mention an truly wonderful individual.

 

[Katya]

Because it is no longer strictly a partisan thing, you have to vote out each individual legislator. And in some states they are Rs and others they are Ds.

Are you sure you're responding to my post, Racehorse? Did I say anything about party politics, Ds or Rs anywhere?

I don't see anything wrong with posting lists of state and local politicians who are vehemently and actively anti-vaping and try to either ban it altogether or make it prohibitively expensive. I actually find it helpful.

 

[Kent C]

I did not know this, but it sure does surprise me......she is one of the best, most customer-service driven vendors in the business, not to mention an truly wonderful individual.

She's done much in Illinois (and elsewhere) on panels, hearings, etc. She doesn't promote it herself, but I will

 

[Kent C]

Are you sure you're responding to my post, Racehorse? Did I say anything about party politics, Ds or Rs anywhere?

See also her post on Ark and my response :- )

 

[Katya]

See also her post on Ark and my response :- )

Right on.

 

[nicnik]

The deeming regs are proposed, not necessarily what we will end up with.

I think Steve, like me, feels that over-reacting is a form of fear-mongering.

It is interesting that, when we talk about other aspects of vaping, like flavorings or mod safety, you will get accused of fear mongering (with very negative connotations) but if you fear monger about regulations, it's "okay".

I think some people, like Steve are just not into creating added anxiety to life about stuff that may or may not even happen, that's all.

Not sticking up for either of you, just saying that some people are very *reactive* and some people aren't. (One of my brothers is very reactive and he is pretty stressed out all the time. and many of the scenarios he worries about never come to pass.

It's good to be aware. It's good to keep abreast of things that affect you and to take proper political, social action where you can. But living in a constant state of fear and stress is not good. Not to mention the anger that it generates inside of you.

I believe in harm reduction......but not just with vaping!!! The spiritual, emotional, physiological and psychological apsects of life as well. Everyone has control over their thoughts. Talk to any doctor or psychologist and the mind-body connection is very important aspect of HEALTH.

Steve worries too much about people's worries. Aside from that, nice post.

 

[stevegmu]

The deeming regs are proposed, not necessarily what we will end up with.

I think Steve, like me, feels that over-reacting is a form of fear-mongering.

It is interesting that, when we talk about other aspects of vaping, like flavorings or mod safety, you will get accused of fear mongering (with very negative connotations) but if you fear monger about regulations, it's "okay".

I think some people, like Steve are just not into creating added anxiety to life about stuff that may or may not even happen, that's all.

Not sticking up for either of you, just saying that some people are very *reactive* and some people aren't. (One of my brothers is very reactive and he is pretty stressed out all the time. and many of the scenarios he worries about never come to pass.

It's good to be aware. It's good to keep abreast of things that affect you and to take proper political, social action where you can. But living in a constant state of fear and stress is not good. Not to mention the anger that it generates inside of you.

I believe in harm reduction......but not just with vaping!!! The spiritual, emotional, physiological and psychological apsects of life as well. Everyone has control over their thoughts. Talk to any doctor or psychologist and the mind-body connection is very important aspect of HEALTH.

I don't care all that much. Vaping isn't my life. What happens happens. Activists who look and act like Occupiers and use their gorilla tactics aren't going to change the mind of politicians, except maybe turn the politicians against them. When you have guys on here running around calling everyone ANTZ when they dare question aspects or vaping, how do they possibly think they can influence politicians and non vapers if they turn vapers against their 'movement?'
There's so little maturity and professionalism in the movement, it is no wonder the politicians against vaping are having their way. Look at the activist video which was posted a while ago. I really don't care what people look like, but image and how one presents themselves means a lot when trying to influence others. A guy who looks and talks like a cartoon character of a New Jersey fake Italian mobster and a guy who looks like a parolee. The video appeals to the choir and not the masses. Look at videos and pictures of vape events. The image the industry portrays will guarantee vaping never becomes mainstream and allow politicians to have their way when it comes to taxes and regulations...

 

[KattMamma]

wow steve.. way to blame the victims.

Do you really mean that if we all shaved, got haircuts, wore business attire, spoke eloquently, etc. that no regulations would be coming down?

I would beg to differ. You know as well as I do that the overwhelming reason for regulations is MONEY.

 

[nicnik]

I don't care all that much. Vaping isn't my life. What happens happens. Activists who look and act like Occupiers and use their gorilla tactics aren't going to change the mind of politicians, except maybe turn the politicians against them. When you have guys on here running around calling everyone ANTZ when they dare question aspects or vaping, how do they possibly think they can influence politicians and non vapers if they turn vapers against their 'movement?'
There's so little maturity and professionalism in the movement, it is no wonder the politicians against vaping are having their way. Look at the activist video which was posted a while ago. I really don't care what people look like, but image and how one presents themselves means a lot when trying to influence others. A guy who looks and talks like a cartoon character of a New Jersey fake Italian mobster and a guy who looks like a parolee. The video appeals to the choir and not the masses. Look at videos and pictures of vape events. The image the industry portrays will guarantee vaping never becomes mainstream and allow politicians to have their way when it comes to taxes and regulations...

It's one vote per person, whatever one looks like. More and more politicians are, and will be seeing that vapers look like voters.

 

[nicnik]

wow steve.. way to blame the victims.

Do you really mean that if we all shaved, got haircuts, wore business attire, spoke eloquently, etc. that no regulations would be coming down?

I would beg to differ. You know as well as I do that the overwhelming reason for regulations is MONEY.

Many politicians have a keen interest in numbers, but an aversion to logic. They are consumed with counting money and votes and wearing earplugs.

 

[stevegmu]

wow steve.. way to blame the victims.

Do you really mean that if we all shaved, got haircuts, wore business attire, spoke eloquently, etc. that no regulations would be coming down?

I would beg to differ. You know as well as I do that the overwhelming reason for regulations is MONEY.

Looking and acting professional goes a long way; wearing t-shirts, shorts and sandals to a legislative hearing doesn't. Neither does making a video which looks like a stereotype, if the intent is to normalize vaping...

 

[Katya]

Looking and acting professional goes a long way;

Yup! It sure worked for very professional looking Big Tobacco executives. Big time!

 

[stevegmu]

Yup! It sure worked for very professional looking Big Tobacco executives. Big time!

It did. Has BT been put out of business?
Vaping doesn't have money, powerful lobbyists, political influence, large numbers or attorneys; image is about all vaping has...

 

[Katya]

It did. Has BT been put out of business?

You can't be serious. Are you? Do you know how much they were forced to pay in damages and how many restrictions have been put nationwide and worldwide on how they can do business, advertise, etc.?

BTW, I'm not saying that common courtesy and décor are useless. People should dress appropriately for any occasion. But that is not a deciding factor--ever. I watched CA hearings the other day and all the CA vapers looked quite professional and respectful. All 236 of them who showed up and politely stepped to the microphone to passionately oppose the bills. The vote still went against them--8-1 and 8-3.

Conversely, the three American heroes arrived dressed very casually to receive their Legion of Honor from the hands of the French president. Nobody seemed to mind their khakis and t-shirts even a little bit!

 

[stevegmu]

You can't be serious. Are you? Do you know how much they were forced to pay in damages and how many restrictions have been put nationwide and worldwide on how they can do business, advertise, etc.?

BTW, I'm not saying that common courtesy and décor are useless. People should dress appropriately for any occasion. But that is not a deciding factor--ever. I watched CA hearings the other day and all the CA vapers looked quite professional and respectful. All 236 of them who showed up and politely stepped to the microphone to passionately to oppose the bills. The vote still went against them--8-1 and 8-3.

Conversely, the three American heroes arrived dressed very casually to receive their Legion of Honor from the hands of the French president. Nobody seemed to mind their khakis and t-shirts even a little bit!

There's a school of thought on that which states those advertising restrictions have ended up in their favor...
The Americans in France weren't asking for something; they were being given something...