Oklahoma law approved - Sales to minors and taxes

Discussion in 'Legislation News' started by Pure Guava, Mar 8, 2013.

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  1. Pure Guava

    Pure Guava Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    Bill found here.

    Tax information begins on bottom of page 25.

    Can anyone give a Reader's Digest version of this? My head started hurting mid-way through...
     
  2. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    I'm not a lawyer but here is an Excerpt from the Definitions.

    5. "Tobacco-derived product" means any noncombustible product
    derived from tobacco that contains nicotine and is intended for
    human consumption, whether chewed, absorbed, dissolved, or ingested
    by any other means, but does not include a vapor product or any
    product regulated by the United States Food and Drug Administration
    under Chapter V of the federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act;

    6. "Tobacco product" means any product that contains tobacco
    and is intended for human consumption, but does not include any
    tobacco-derived product or vapor product;


    I wonder if an e-Liquid is considered a "vapor product"?
     
  3. Pure Guava

    Pure Guava Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    They later describe "vapor product" and include "tobacco-derived product or vapor product" in every line, going forward...

    9. "Vapor product" means a noncombustible, tobacco-derived
    product containing nicotine, such as an electronic cigarette, that
    employs a mechanical heating element, battery, or electronic
    circuit, regardless of shape or size, that can be used to heat a
    liquid nicotine solution contained in a vapor cartridge as well as
    any vapor cartridge containing liquid nicotine solution that can be
    used with or in a vapor product. "Vapor product" does not include
    any product regulated by the United States Food and Drug
    Administration under Chapter V of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act,
    P.L. 75-717.

    I suppose "vapor product" "contains nicotine", so I would think it does, especially since it's not FDA regulated.

    I'm trying to gt a hold on the tax scale thing...
     
  4. TroyHoot

    TroyHoot Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    .05 tax per vapor unit. vapor unit is .03 of an ounce. $1.33 tax on 30 mils approximately by my figures. $250 permit each year $30 license fee every 3 years. Stamp on each bottle. Unless they are gonna go by actual nic volume in the bottles instead of just total volume. I just skimmed through it though. goes in effect Nov 1 of this year. But im not a lawyer or anything.
     
  5. Pure Guava

    Pure Guava Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    Where does it talk about a vapor unit being x amount of a weight/volume?
     
  6. TroyHoot

    TroyHoot Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    (o) The words
    "
    vapor product unit
    "
    mean all amounts of
    consumable material in a vapor product up to and including .03
    ounces.


    My math worked it out to .88 mills per unit approximately


    EDIT: this might be weight and not volume which would change things
     
  7. TroyHoot

    TroyHoot Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    6. Vapor products.
    Upon all vapor products, the tax shall be
    five cents ($0.05) per vapor product unit and a proportionate tax at the like rate on all fractional parts of
    a vapor product unit inexcess of a single vapor product unit.
    At no time shall the rate levied upon a vapor product unit exceed one
    -
    tenth (0.10) the rate of tax imposed on a pack of cigarettes in this state


    So tax cant go over 1/10th of the tax on a pack of smokes. whatever that is.


    EDIT geesh, this is why i am not a lawyer. I dont wanna deal with all the bs talk... Im probably way off on how I interpret this.
     
  8. Cool_Breeze

    Cool_Breeze Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I suppose the members of the peg-legged quartet will soon be posting with their interpretation letting us know how we are supposed to think about this.
     
  9. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    It appears that Chapter V of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act deals more with drugs.

    FD&C Act Chapter V: Drugs and Devices

    But like I said before, I‘m not an Lawyer.
     
  10. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
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    SB 802 is an RJ Reynolds sponsored bill that would:
    - ban the sale of e-cigarettes, dissolvables and other new smokefree alternatives to youth,
    - require all vapor containing e-cigarette products sold in OK to list the weight of the e-liquid in the product,
    - require every e-cigarette dealer (i.e retailer) and wholesaler in OK to obtain a state tobacco wholesaler/retailer license ($250/year),
    - require all vapor containing e-cigarette products (i.e. those containing e-liquid) to be stored behind the retailer's counter (requiring purchase assistance from a clerk),
    - ban youth from possessing, using or purchasing e-cigarettes, with $100 fine for violators,
    - impose a $.05 tax on all vapor containing e-cigarette product up to an ounce (i.e. the weight of the e-liquid), and
    - preempt local governments in OK from different licensing, sales to minors bans or taxes on e-cigarettes.

    I have two concerns about this bill, one minor and one potentially major.

    First, by requiring all vapor containing e-cigarette products sold in OK to list the weight of the e-liquid in the product, SB 666 would require all e-cigarette manufacturers worldwide (that want to sell products in OK) to begin listing the weight (in ounces) of the e-liquid contained in the product. While that would result in labels on all e-cig products that say something like "contains .0005 ounces of vapor product unit". Thus, this one state law could establish a national (and perhaps an international) standard for all e-cigarette products.

    My second, and most important concern about SB 802 is that it appears to redefine a "dealer" to include all e-cigarette "consumers" in OK who buy e-cig products from other states (via the Internet or mail order), and as such, requires all such e-cigarette "consumers" to pay a $250 annual licensing fee (see two clauses below with amended language underlined and my concerns highligthed in red).

    It is uncertain whether or not the OK government would or could prosecute e-cigarette consumers who buy e-cigarette products via the Internet from out-of-state companies (for failing to get a dealers licencse costing $250/year and for failing to pay the $.05 tax on all purchases from out-of-state. I cannot imaging the OK Revenue Dept prosecuting e-cig consumers for these offenses, but it appears to be possible under these clauses.

    Since RJ Reynolds is promoting this legislation, and since Reynolds doesn't selll e-cigs (or cigarettes, smokeless or dissolvables) via the Internet (but rather only in brick-and-mortar stores), I'm concerned that RJ Reynolds might be trying to eventually ban (or at least tax) e-cigarettes sold via the Internet (as Reynolds doesn't want to have to pay taxes that are evaded by consumers who buy over the Internet from out-of-state companies).

    Section 415. A. Every dealer and wholesaler of tobacco
    products, tobacco-derived products or vapor products in this state,
    as a condition of carrying on such business, shall annually secure
    from the Oklahoma Tax Commission a written license and shall pay an
    annual fee of Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00)
    (pg. 29 of SB 802)

    (l) The word "dealer" shall include every person, firm,
    corporation, or association of persons, who manufactures cigars or,
    tobacco products, tobacco-derived products or vapor products for
    distribution, sale, use or consumption in the State of Oklahoma.
    The word "dealer" is also further defined to mean any person, firm,
    corporation or association of persons, who imports cigars or,
    tobacco products, tobacco-derived products or vapor products from
    any state or foreign country, for
    distribution, sale, use or
    consumption in the State of Oklahoma.
    (pg 22-23 of SB 802))
     
  11. JerryRM

    JerryRM ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Gotta love the way politicians re-define the meaning of words. So now, every e-cig user in Oklahoma is a dealer. Someone please send those politicians a dictionary.
     
  12. Fiamma

    Fiamma Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Legislators are collectively going insane, driven there by greed, corruption and the ANTZ.
     
  13. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
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    Last month, Reynolds informed me (and some other THR advocates) that they would be advocating state laws that ban the sale of dissolvables and e-cigarettes to minors, as well as very low tax rates (i.e. <10% of the cigarette tax rate) for e-cigarettes, dissolvables and smokeless tobacco products.

    SB 802 in Oklahoma appears to be Reynolds' first bill of this type.

    Compared to all other e-cigarette tax legislation, SB 802 is clearly preferable to all the bills introduced by e-cigarette opponents.

    We just need to carefully review the impact SB 802 may have on e-cig consumers in OK who buy on the Internet, as well as any negative impact SB 802 may have on out-of-state e-cigarette companies and/or on the postal carriers who deliver the packages.
     
  14. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
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    Please note that SB 802 has only been approved by the OK Senate, and it still needs to be approved by the House and Governor before it can become law.
    Bill Information
     
  15. rothenbj

    rothenbj Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    What's interesting about the definition is that, if the FDA does in fact issue a deeming regulation in April, then it will be FDA regulated. That should be interesting.
     
  16. Fiamma

    Fiamma Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Am I reading this right? "Last month, Reynolds informed me (and some other THR advocates) that they would be advocating state laws that ban the sale of dissolvables and e-cigarettes in state legislatures, as well as very low tax rates (i.e. <10% of the cigarette tax rate) for e-cigarettes, dissolvables and smokeless tobacco products.

    I thought OK only banned sales to minors and added the taxing language as well as the ambiguity about who is a 'dealer'.
     
  17. Fiamma

    Fiamma Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    The FDA approval group they name is "regulated by the United States Food and Drug Administration under Chapter V of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, P.L. 75-717."

    A deeming would be under the tobacco group.
     
  18. Cool_Breeze

    Cool_Breeze Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Yes, it seems the OK law could change in outlook by (later) actions relative to the FDA. I don't know how to interpret that matter.
     
  19. Berylanna

    Berylanna Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Is this (RJ Reynolds-sponsored) provable? Can we go to state legislatures and point out this is a tobacco company that doesn't want people to be able to quit smoking more-easily than they continue smoking? How easy is it to show this trail?
     
  20. Pure Guava

    Pure Guava Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    Well, I live bout 15 minutes away from the State Capital. Any advice?
     
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