Oklahoma law approved - Sales to minors and taxes
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As an Okie who opposed this bill, I now feel like a weight has lifted from my shoulders.
Just be wary for the next time
I'd personally like to thank all those who got involved in this matter
Just be wary for the next time
I'd personally like to thank all those who got involved in this matter
Keep checking back, as you never know what the substitute bill (if ever offered) will contain.
A lot of vapers don't view e-cigarettes as smoking cessation either - IF you consider smoking cessation to be abstinent from all tobacco and tobacco-derived products (which include the tobacco-derived nicotine in most e-cigarette liquid.) ANTZ claim smoking cessation MUST include a goal of complete nicotine abstinence. However, a huge number of vapers do not use their e-cigarettes to become nicotine abstinent, just smoke abstinent. Many vapers weren't even trying to quit smoking when they bought their first device and would still be smoking if they hadn't purchased one. They tried e-cigarettes because they were cheaper than smoking, could be used where smoking was prohibited, don't have the same smell, weren't taxed like cigarettes (protest) and/or wanted to reduce health risks but still keep doing what they enjoyed about smoking. The CASAA 2010 E-cigarette User Survey showed that only 20.4% of the respondents tried e-cigarettes to quit nicotine completely.
The lie of "using them to circumvent smoking bans" is that it is NOT circumventing anything because it's NOT smoking. "Circumventing" would be to still be smoking where it is prohibited. Their argument should be shown to be as ridiculous as claiming that using nicotine gum where smoking is prohibited is "circumventing smoking bans." With their logic, not smoking using pure will power while in a prohibited area, but smoking when you leave, could be considered "circumventing the smoking ban." Smoking is burning tobacco and creating smoke. Not smoking is not smoking - whether it's using an e-cigarette, gum or nothing at all!
Same with the claim that e-cigarettes are just keeping people smoking because it gives them something to "tide them over until they can smoke again." As if smokers don't already use the FDA-approved gums and lozenges to do the same thing. The big difference being that vaping is actually enjoyable and could possibly convert them to vaping full time, whereas gums and patches are not enjoyable and only a short-term solution for most smokers.
And the other claim that seeing these in use where smoking is prohibited promotes smoking or "normalizes" it. No, it promotes and normalizes VAPING. (As if no one can see the people standing outside smoking or vaping when they arrive at or leave an establishment, LOL!)
It's important to know what the ANTZ consider to be a "smoking cessation product" before making our arguments. They don't see smoking cessation the way many vapers do. Most of us consider ourselves to have quit smoking (because we have) but the ANTZ still consider us smokers because we are not nicotine abstinent.
A lot of vapers don't view e-cigarettes as smoking cessation either - IF you consider smoking cessation to be abstinent from all tobacco and tobacco-derived products (which include the tobacco-derived nicotine in most e-cigarette liquid.) ANTZ claim smoking cessation MUST include a goal of complete nicotine abstinence. However, a huge number of vapers do not use their e-cigarettes to become nicotine abstinent, just smoke abstinent. Many vapers weren't even trying to quit smoking when they bought their first device and would still be smoking if they hadn't purchased one. They tried e-cigarettes because they were cheaper than smoking, could be used where smoking was prohibited, don't have the same smell, weren't taxed like cigarettes (protest) and/or wanted to reduce health risks but still keep doing what they enjoyed about smoking. The CASAA 2010 E-cigarette User Survey showed that only 20.4% of the respondents tried e-cigarettes to quit nicotine completely.
The lie of "using them to circumvent smoking bans" is that it is NOT circumventing anything because it's NOT smoking. "Circumventing" would be to still be smoking where it is prohibited. Their argument should be shown to be as ridiculous as claiming that using nicotine gum where smoking is prohibited is "circumventing smoking bans." With their logic, not smoking using pure will power while in a prohibited area, but smoking when you leave, could be considered "circumventing the smoking ban." Smoking is burning tobacco and creating smoke. Not smoking is not smoking - whether it's using an e-cigarette, gum or nothing at all!
Same with the claim that e-cigarettes are just keeping people smoking because it gives them something to "tide them over until they can smoke again." As if smokers don't already use the FDA-approved gums and lozenges to do the same thing. The big difference being that vaping is actually enjoyable and could possibly convert them to vaping full time, whereas gums and patches are not enjoyable and only a short-term solution for most smokers.
And the other claim that seeing these in use where smoking is prohibited promotes smoking or "normalizes" it. No, it promotes and normalizes VAPING. (As if no one can see the people standing outside smoking or vaping when they arrive at or leave an establishment, LOL!)
It's important to know what the ANTZ consider to be a "smoking cessation product" before making our arguments. They don't see smoking cessation the way many vapers do. Most of us consider ourselves to have quit smoking (because we have) but the ANTZ still consider us smokers because we are not nicotine abstinent.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This 1000%.
...
It's important to know what the ANTZ consider to be a "smoking cessation product" before making our arguments. They don't see smoking cessation the way many vapers do. Most of us consider ourselves to have quit smoking (because we have) but the ANTZ still consider us smokers because we are not nicotine abstinent.
So the ANTZ don't see e-cigs to be a smoking cessation product purely due to the nicotine, and they won't be happy until all nicotine usage is banned? As far as vices go, what's the difference between nicotine and alcohol? Sounds like Prohibition revisited, even tho I think you could make the argument that nicotine is much less harmful than alcohol.
Actually, it's a little disheartening to hear that so many vapers don't intend to eventually quit. I for one have no intention of being chained to this silly looking battery for the rest of my life. What vaping has done for me is to open up my eyes to what is possible and I'll always be grateful.
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But why? Why should you even care if others don't intend to eventually quit? In my view, that'd be like me being disheartened because you won't eventually quit eating meat or drinking caffeine.
It's a little disheartening for me to hear that you think e-cigarettes are "silly looking."
Definitely. Unlike alcohol, a "nicotine addict" doesn't get intoxicated. Someone isn't going to drive dangerously, lose inhibition, become violent, miss work or act psychotically because they "under the influence" of nicotine. Nicotine also doesn't cause any diseases like liver disease and oral cancer.
There are HUGE differences between alcohol and nicotine.
And yes - Prohibition is a perfect example of what is happening.
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I don't intend to quit, never did. I enjoy my caffeine and nicotine.
Yep....
Same here. I didn't intend to quit smoking. It was just a benefit of trying something better.
My non smoking wife is as happy as can be!
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Nicotine IMPROVES memory, concentration, and attention, even in non-smokers.
And nicotine is being used to treat Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases, and it looks like it might help prevent them.
Alcohol, well, yeah... not so much.
But why? Why should you even care if others don't intend to eventually quit? In my view, that'd be like me being disheartened because you won't eventually quit eating meat or drinking caffeine.
It's a little disheartening for me to hear that you think e-cigarettes are "silly looking."
Definitely. Unlike alcohol, a "nicotine addict" doesn't get intoxicated. Someone isn't going to drive dangerously, lose inhibition, become violent, miss work or act psychotically because they "under the influence" of nicotine. Nicotine also doesn't cause any diseases like liver disease and oral cancer.
There are HUGE differences between alcohol and nicotine.
And yes - Prohibition is a perfect example of what is happening.
Well I guess I am disheartened because I thought this was a place to get support, as I plan to phase out my vaping over time and be completely finished with nicotine. I am well aware of the dark side of alcoholism, that remark was supposed to be sarcastic but obviously didn't play so well.
I seem to be in the minority here, but I look forward to the day when I can put the e-cig away and not have to worry about having a craving, becoming irritable without it, etc., not to mention the substantial $ savings. There is no doubt in my mind that vaping is substantially healthier than smoking, but it still feels to me like a ball and chain.
Nicotine IMPROVES memory, concentration, and attention, even in non-smokers.
And nicotine is being used to treat Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases, and it looks like it might help prevent them.
Alcohol, well, yeah... not so much.
So it sounds like you are saying that nicotine is actually good for us. I'm only at 12mg right now. What level do you recommend I increase to so I won't get Alzheimer's or Parkinson's?
If you feel burdened by your nicotine use, then you SHOULD do whatever you can to quit and be happy! That is your choice and I support and respect that. But a LOT of people do not feel anymore burdened by their nicotine "dependence" than they feel burdened by needing to eat every day.
Our point is that it should be a choice and other people shouldn't project their own negative feelings about nicotine dependence on us and expect us to adhere to their ideology. I resent ANTZ calling me a "nicotine addict" like I should be ashamed. Even worse, calling me a "nicotine JUNKY" in a blatant attempt to MAKE me feel ashamed. If my nicotine use isn't really hurting me and doesn't make me unhappy, why must I quit just to make other people respect me? Why must I be punished by society for my choices any more than the coffee drinkers and meat eaters? That's all we're trying to say.
Yes, I believe it is in moderation, otherwise I wouldn't be using it.
Just like drinking a glass or two of wine every day is now considered good for you.
My spidey-sense tells me you were being sarcastic.
But I'll answer anyway, because it is a good and valid question...
So I would really like to know that myself, but alas, I do not.
All I can tell you is that I use about 1ml of 12mg juice every day, and have since I started vaping.
The only problem I can see is that I often have to remind myself to vape nowadays.
I often don't start until after I get off work.
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I am reminded of people who attended the obamacare town hall meetings with 1000's of pages in there hands ready to ask pertanent questions about the bill of senators who themselves had no idea what was in the damn thing. Also how they were treated as a result, especially in the media.
It's important to know what the ANTZ consider to be a "smoking cessation product" before making our arguments. They don't see smoking cessation the way many vapers do. Most of us consider ourselves to have quit smoking (because we have) but the ANTZ still consider us smokers because we are not nicotine abstinent.
Technically i don't think anyone on the planet who eats is totally nicotine abstinent as it is found in many other plants other than tabacco.
You are in the minority as in it looks to me like about 30-40% of the folks on the forum have the same goals as you, and the rest of us support you (though of course actual useful advice would come from your fellow travelers)...but we do not believe that WE need to travel your road, nor feel guilty about following our own road.
Just like e-liquid flavors that work for you and devices that work for you are extremely individual, so is your end goal. We'll support you, but not at the price of having you tell us we have to follow your road, which is dictated by your own body and brain, which is your own and not mine.
That's why there are so MANY sub-forums and so MANY threads!
My happy place is 4mg level nic and I'm 73. I will vape until my heart quits beating. I am one of those who have cognitive problems and attention problems off nic. It doesn't take much to keep me in good working order.
I am happy to see the research being done on nic with respect to Alzheimers and Parkinsons and I wonder sometimes if my 55 yrs of smoking kept me from starting to have Alzheimer's symptoms. I didn't quit smoking until I was 71 and I am now two years smoke free and happy with my ecigs.
I am always willing to support anyone who quits killing themselves with cigarettes as long as they give me the same support for my own method of not smoking. If they want to be off nic, fine for them, I'll support them. I don't want to be off nic and I expect those same people to support me, not call my ecigs silly looking and get the feeling of being looked down on because I don't want to stop using nic.
I much prefer being militant in getting the right for everyone to choose, not militant in the form of trying to make anyone conform to what I like or do.
I am happy to see the research being done on nic with respect to Alzheimers and Parkinsons and I wonder sometimes if my 55 yrs of smoking kept me from starting to have Alzheimer's symptoms. I didn't quit smoking until I was 71 and I am now two years smoke free and happy with my ecigs.
I am always willing to support anyone who quits killing themselves with cigarettes as long as they give me the same support for my own method of not smoking. If they want to be off nic, fine for them, I'll support them. I don't want to be off nic and I expect those same people to support me, not call my ecigs silly looking and get the feeling of being looked down on because I don't want to stop using nic.
I much prefer being militant in getting the right for everyone to choose, not militant in the form of trying to make anyone conform to what I like or do.
- Apr 2, 2009
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On 3/24, Placebo Effect wrote:
Please note that Reynolds informed me two days ago that they are not backing off of their state legislative strategy (i.e. requiring "vapor products" to comply with many other existing state laws that were previously enacted to strictly regulate sales and purchases of cigarettes and other tobacco products via licensure). And they just introduced a bill in WV (SB 2778)
Here is Reynolds' action alert urging folks to support SB 802 in Oklahoma
Tranform Tobacco - State - Oklahoma
Please note that Reynolds informed me two days ago that they are not backing off of their state legislative strategy (i.e. requiring "vapor products" to comply with many other existing state laws that were previously enacted to strictly regulate sales and purchases of cigarettes and other tobacco products via licensure). And they just introduced a bill in WV (SB 2778)
Here is Reynolds' action alert urging folks to support SB 802 in Oklahoma
Tranform Tobacco - State - Oklahoma
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