Oklahoma law approved - Sales to minors and taxes

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Bill Godshall

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1truk wrote

Mr. Godshall, thank you very much for your work on this and to help us weed through and better understand what is certainly a daunting amount of legal jargon. I do however disagree with your assessment about the proposed $.05 tax on e-cigs and it being nothing to get upset or ballistic about. Some of us are old enough to remember how Cigarettes started getting taxed (at a very low and acceptable rate) and how we eventually came to what is now, like you stated, $1.03/pack rate.

As one who has successfully campaigned for more than two decades to increase cigarette tax rates (but I also opposed NY's last cigarette tax hike to $4.35/pack because it's grossly excessive and created lots of contraband), I'm fully aware of the potential tax ramifications, which is why I've opposed proposed e-cigarette taxes in other states.

My point was that, instead of focussing opposition on the proposed $.05 e-cigarette tax in SB 602, a better strategy would be to point out that SB 602 would unfairly criminalize all e-cigarette vendors (including those located outside OK) that market e-cigarettes to OK consumers as well as thousands of OK e-cigarette consumers who fail to comply with several dozen different Oklahoma laws that now regulate the sales and purchases of cigarettes (and other tobacco products) via licensure laws.

Basically, RJ Reynolds and Senator Johnson are proposing to take away the e-cigarette industry from existing companies, and to give it to currently licensed tobacco wholesalers, retailers and/or dealers in OK. This is much bigger threat to existing e-cigarette companies and consumers than a $.05 tax.
 
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Fiamma

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On 3/24, Placebo Effect wrote:



Please note that Reynolds informed me two days ago that they are not backing off of their state legislative strategy (i.e. requiring "vapor products" to comply with many other existing state laws that were previously enacted to strictly regulate sales and purchases of cigarettes and other tobacco products via licensure). And they just introduced a bill in WV (SB 2778)

Here is Reynolds' action alert urging folks to support SB 802 in Oklahoma
Tranform Tobacco - State - Oklahoma

So RJR is trying to blow out e cig vendors in Okla to promote their own Vuse. Figures.
 

Irishred

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Yraen wrote that he tried "patches, the gum, the lozenges, hypnosis and Chantix. Nothing worked. Not one single thing." But he successfully quit smoking 40 years worth of analogs due to vaping. This is why big Pharma against ecigs. They want smokers to spend an obscene amount of money on their worthless products. My late father was a victim of tobacco companies' evil deeds to inject more addictive chemicals in their cigs which have now been banned. Once time he tried patches and it made him suicidal. Unfortunately he smoked until he died in the nineties from lung cancer. He was so addicted, he smoked while on oxygen tank. Had ecig been available then, I sincerely believed he would have had an easier time in his last years. I'm damn mad that some politicians are selfishly willing to cater to big money interest groups such as Pharma and Tobacco and not to us, the biggest money interest group, the taxpayers.
 

kristin

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I'm very sorry for your loss. The most infuriating thing about your story is that there WERE low risk alternatives available in the 90's and the ANTZ were lying to smokers and saying they were just as bad as smoking.

Unfortunately, the common misconception that tobacco companies were adding addictive chemicals that are now banned was pure ANTZ propaganda. There have been no laws passed to ban such a thing. The only thing that has been banned from cigarettes are distinctive flavorings they say 'entice children." If anything was keeping people smoking and dying more than anything else, it was the ANTZ telling people that gums & patches work, you just have to keep trying and that there was no such thing as low risk tobacco.
 

Luisa

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On 3/24, Placebo Effect wrote:



Please note that Reynolds informed me two days ago that they are not backing off of their state legislative strategy (i.e. requiring "vapor products" to comply with many other existing state laws that were previously enacted to strictly regulate sales and purchases of cigarettes and other tobacco products via licensure). And they just introduced a bill in WV (SB 2778)

Here is Reynolds' action alert urging folks to support SB 802 in Oklahoma
Tranform Tobacco - State - Oklahoma
Is it possible to publicize the role R.J. Reynolds is playing in Transform Tobacco? That should be a turn-off to most people.
 

Bill Godshall

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Here's another reason why e-cigarette companies and consumers in OK should oppose SB 802.

This past week, OK legislature enacted SB 619 (its now on the Governor's desk), which would add more conditions for canceling tobacco dealer’s license. Anyone ever busted for pot possession would be banned from ever selling e-cigarettes in OK (if SB 802 is enacted).
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2013-14 ENR/SB/SB619 ENR.PDF
Bill Information
 

BuGlen

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Here's another reason why e-cigarette companies and consumers in OK should oppose SB 802.

This past week, OK legislature enacted SB 619 (its now on the Governor's desk), which would add more conditions for canceling tobacco dealer’s license. Anyone ever busted for pot possession would be banned from ever selling e-cigarettes in OK (if SB 802 is enacted).
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2013-14 ENR/SB/SB619 ENR.PDF
Bill Information

I am very curious as to how they made that connection between possession of a currently illegal substance and getting a license for a legal business. I would have loved to be in the room for that discussion.
 

Bill Godshall

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Talking points to oppose SB 802 in Oklahoma

RJ Reynolds is sponsoring SB 802 to corner the e-cigarette market in Oklahoma, and to halt the rapid decline in Reynolds’ cigarette sales, not to protect children.

Reynolds set up a website urging and assisting people to lobby for SB 802 at Tranform Tobacco - State - Oklahoma

Reynolds reported a 5.6% US cigarette sales volume decline in 2012, compared to an overall 2.3% decline for the cigarette industry.

Vapers and vendors support banning e-cigarette sales to minors (even though there is no evidence the products are marketed to youth), but that can be done with a one page bill.

After Obama’s FDA unlawfully banned e-cigarette imports in 2009, and after US Customs agents seized nearly 1,000 e-cigarette shipments at US ports, virtually all e-cigarette sales shifted to the Internet and mail order because very few tobacco retailers (or other brick-and-mortar retailers) would buy or sell the products. Now RJ Reynolds wants to ban all existing e-cigarette sales in OK, and give the entire industry to Big Tobacco.

The definition of “vapor product” in the Committee Substitute for SB 802 is still very ambiguous and confusing, and appears to apply to a minority of vapor products now available on the market. But determining which “vapor products” are actually included, and which are excluded, in the Committee Substitute’s definition could result in years of conflict, controversy and likely litigation.

Reynolds and other out-of-state Big Tobacco companies already have behind-the-counter product display contracts with virtually all licensed tobacco retailers in OK (that control >80% of tobacco display shelves to ensure their products are easily visible to consumers), but <10% of e-cigarette companies and <5% of e-cigarette products have contracts with licensed tobacco retailers to display and sell.


Oklahoma legislation (SB 802) would harm e-cigarette companies and consumers in OK, as well as smokers in OK, because it would:

- protect and benefit RJ Reynolds and other out-of-state Big Tobacco companies at the expense of ALL e-cigarette vendors and consumers in Oklahoma;

- void ALL existing e-cigarette contracts and ban ALL existing sales in Oklahoma, and basically give the entire e-cigarette industry to Big Tobacco;

- require manufacturers/importers to sell only to licensed tobacco wholesalers in OK, require licensed tobacco wholesalers to sell only to licensed tobacco retailers, and would allow only licensed tobacco retailers to sell to consumers;

require e-cigarette importers located in OK to obtain a wholesale tobacco license and a retail tobacco license (which may not be allowed), and to sell their products back to themselves twice before being allowed to sell them to OK consumers,

- prohibit OK consumers from purchasing from more than one hundred e-cigarette manufacturers/importers, and from any out-of-state company (which probably violates the Interstate Commerce Clause of the US Constitution);

- prohibit OK consumers from purchasing the vast majority of e-cigarette products now available on the market because they aren’t (and aren’t going to be) bought or sold by licensed tobacco wholesalers or by licensed tobacco retailers in OK;

- significantly increase prices of e-cigarette products and ban consumers from buying hundreds of e-cigarette products unless licensed tobacco wholesalers and tobacco retailers in OK begin to buy/sell these products;

- benefit out-of-state e-cigarette companies (at the expense of those located in OK) that market directly to OK consumers via the Internet or mail order because the state cannot stop consumers from buying products over the Internet, and because the state probably doesn’t have the legal authority to prosecute out-of-state companies due to the Interstate Commerce Clause of the US Constitution;

- encourage e-cigarette manufacturers, importers and retailers in OK to move out-of-state; and

- threaten (instead of improve) consumer and public health in OK.
 

Placebo Effect

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Thank you Bill. I'll get them out to those who are going to be testifying at the hearing.

I've updated the CTA to reflect the fact that SB 802 would be a TAX INCREASE on OK citizens - CASAA: Call to Action! Oklahoma Bill to Tax E-Cigarettes and More -- SB 802 (IMPORTANT UPDATE)

While the tax on a single 'vapor product unit' (1.48 ml of liquid) would be capped at 10% the tax on cigarettes, the 5 cent per 'vapor product unit' would be proportional to the amount of liquid present in a product.

Thus, a $17 30 ml bottle of e-liquid would be currently be taxed under OK sales tax at 4.5%, or around 77 cents. Under SB 802, the excise tax would be between $1 and $1.05, a tax increase of 30%.

Furthermore, RJR's theory that vapor products would not be subject to sales tax if SB 802 is flawed. As explained in the CTA, the law governing sales taxes and tobacco only applies to cigarettes and tobacco products. But SB 802 specifically says that vapor products are NOT tobacco products.

This was pointed out in a letter recently sent by Grover Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform -- Grover Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform Letter in Opposition to SB 802 (E-cigarette Tax)

Please note if a vapor product unit was redefined to be .20 oz (or 5.9 ml), and the sales tax issue was resolved, SB 802 would, in fact, be a tax cut. Under such an a scenario, the tax on that $17 30 ml bottle would be between 25 and 30 cents vs. 77 cents under current law.
 
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thevapepastor

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TIME TO RALLY!!!

The Public Health Committee will be hearing SB802 and we need to be there to show our opposition!

We need as many vapers as possible to meet in front of the capital on Tuesday, April 9th at 12:30pm!!! Please make every effort to be there!

We will meet in front of the main steps. Bring a sign that says "Oppose SB802" if you can.

The media, vapers everywhere and the tobacco companies will be watching. Let's show them that we are here to stay!

The Capitol Building is located at 2300 N Lincoln Blvd, Oklahoma City, OK.
 

Placebo Effect

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TESTIMONY OF GREGORY CONLEY, J.D. / M.B.A.
LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR, CONSUMER ADVOCATES FOR SMOKE-FREE ALTERNATIVES ASSOCIATION
BEFORE THE OKLAHOMA HOUSE PUBLIC HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE​
HEARING ON SB 802​
APRIL 9, 2013


Chairman Derby, Vice Chairman Mulready and members of the Committee:

Prohibiting minors from purchasing electronic cigarettes makes sense, and thus the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association (CASAA) [1] urges the Senate to enact the portions of SB 802 that would prohibit such sales. However, due to a multitude of issues with the bill and the proposed committee substitute, CASAA urges to vote NO on SB 802 unless and until it is amended so that its passage will not harm public health.

(1) SB 802 is a RJ Reynolds-Sponsored Bill That Is Not Supported by Oklahoma Consumers or Vendors

As recently exposed by the Daily Caller, tobacco company RJ Reynolds (RJR) has began lobbying state legislatures to ban sales of “vapor products” (commonly referred to as electronic cigarettes or e-cigarettes) to minors. While RJR’s goal of banning e-cigarette sales to minors is shared by CASAA, RJR’s bills -- whether purposefully or inadvertently -- almost universally contain provisions that would hurt small businesses and consumers in Oklahoma.

RJR’s cigarette sales fell by 5.6% in the United States in 2012 and a recent report by Morgan Stanley suggests why -- more and more adult smokers are quitting smoking and switching to using smoke-free e-cigarettes. During the past five years, e-cigarette use has exploded among smokers looking for an alternative, all while RJR has sat on the sidelines and watched its cigarette sales experience significant declines. And yet here in 2013, despite not selling e-cigarettes in Oklahoma, RJR has expended a significant amount of money hiring several lobbyists to sing the benefits of SB 802.

SB 802 was introduced by Senator Rob Johnson and passed through the Senate without appearing to seek any input from a single e-cigarette company or consumer in Oklahoma. Indeed, absent the hiring of a day-to-day lobbyist, there was no way for Oklahoma businesses or consumers to know about the existence of SB 802. As introduced, SB 802 was four pages and had nothing to do with e-cigarettes. It was only after the news media reported on SB 802 passing the Senate that Oklahoma e-cigarette users and vendors realized that this 34-page bill even existed.

Lastly, it is also notable that the only active e-cigarette company that CASAA knows has come out in support of SB 802 is blu cigs, which is owned by Lorillard, the third largest manufacturer of cigarettes in the United States. [See Attached Image]

(2) SB 802 Substitute Bill Handles the Sales Tax Issue Inartfully

When opposition to SB 802 first began, lobbyists for RJR began touting that SB 802 would actually be a tax cut because no state sales tax would have to be paid. A letter from Americans for Tax Reform described the veracity of this claim as “unclear.”

Indeed, SB 802 as originally written would have resulted in e-cigarette consumers paying both the state sales tax and the "vapor product unit" excise tax. In 2004, Ballot Initiative #713 amended 68 O.S. 2001, §1355 to clarify that sales tax did not have to be paid on “cigarettes” and “tobacco products” as defined by Oklahoma law. However, because the original version of SB 802 would have specifically defined e-cigarettes to NOT be a tobacco product, this means that e-cigarettes would have continued to be subject to the state sales tax.

CASAA disagrees with the approach taken by SB 802’s sponsors in the substitute bill to rectify this problem. In contrast to the original bill, the substitute bill would specifically define “vapor products” and “tobacco-derived products” to each be a “tobacco product.” Such a provision renders much of the bill superfluous. Indeed, if SB 802 defines e-cigarettes to be a “tobacco product,” every single page of the bill could be stricken out -- except for the tax provisions -- and SB 802 would still ban sales to minors, requiring licensing, and ban consumers from buying online (all of which are laws that currently apply to any product classified as a “tobacco product” by the Oklahoma Legislature).

If the Oklahoma Legislature is to pass a bill that imposes excise taxes on e-cigarette consumers, the Oklahoma Legislature should at least return to the approach taken by the original SB 802, which separately classified e-cigarettes as “vapor products” rather them sticking them into the general general category of “tobacco products.” The change implemented in the substitute bill potentially opens a can of worms regarding how current and future laws governing “tobacco products” apply to e-cigarettes.

For example, last year Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin signed an executive order banning the use of “tobacco products” on all properties owned or leased by the State of Oklahoma. If the SB 802 substitute bill is passed as written, it would almost certainly ban the use of “vapor products” in hundreds of indoor and outdoor locations in the State of Oklahoma. Such an approach would be arbitrary and constitute legislative overreach.

Thus, CASAA urges you to reject the committee substitute’s problem-laden solution to this problem, and instead amend 68 O.S. 2001, §1355 to add the terms “vapor products” and “tobacco-derived products” to the list of products not subject to the state sales tax.

(3) SB 802 Would Result in a Tax Increase for Thousands or Tens of Thousands of Oklahoma E-Cigarette Consumers


Even assuming that the sales tax problem is remedied, RJR’s description of SB 802 as a tax cut is potentially misleading.

The basic tax structure of SB 802 as it relates to “vapor products” is as follows: The substitute bill for SB 802 would tax a “vapor product unit” at 5¢ per .05 oz (or 1.48 ml) of “consumable material.” This tax would be proportional to the amount of “consumable material” in a “vapor product.”

SB 802 would only serve to cut taxes on large tobacco companies who sell what are known as disposable e-cigarettes. These products are manufactured and sold by out-of-state companies and are available in convenience stores. As the name indicates, disposable e-cigarettes are used one time before being disposed. They typically contain less than one “vapor product unit” per disposable. Thus, if a disposable e-cigarette is sold for $8 in Oklahoma with a state sales tax of 36¢ (4.5% of $8), SB 802 would represent a tax cut for these consumers if sales of “vapor products” are exempted from the state sales tax.

However, SB 802 would constitute a tax increase for the consumers who buy from the approximately 39 small businesses in Oklahoma who sell premium e-cigarettes. Premium e-cigarettes are rechargeable devices that are typically used by ex-smokers who have fully switched to e-cigarettes. These devices use a liquid solution (commonly referred to as a “e-liquid”) that is chemically identical to the “consumable material” found in disposable e-cigarettes. Using premium e-cigarettes offers cost-savings in the long-term and allows users the opportunity to customize their vaping experience.

Moreover, premium e-cigarettes create far less litter, as they are used for several weeks or months before being disposed or recycled.

A typical price for a 30 ml bottle of e-liquid is $17. Currently, the sales tax on such a product is 77¢. If SB 802 is passed, the excise tax on such a bottle would be between $1.00 and $1.05. This is a tax increase on Oklahoma citizens of approximately 30%!

It is unknown whether the authors of the forthcoming fiscal note were aware that thousands or tens of thousands of e-cigarette consumers in Oklahoma buy e-liquid multiple times every year (a number that will only continue to grow over the next decade). Therefore, it is not certain whether SB 802 would truly result in a net tax cut to Oklahoma citizens, and it appears that its passage will at least result in a tax increase for the thousands or tens of thousands of Oklahoma citizens who use premium e-cigarettes.

If SB 802 is to be passed, the size of a “vapor product unit” should be increased to .20 oz to ensure that no Oklahoma citizen suffers a tax hike.

(4) Licensing is Unnecessary, and Oklahoma’s Current Licensing Scheme is Inappropriate for E-Cigarette Sales


CASAA is a consumer organization and, as such, does not represent the interests of vendors. However, CASAA does recognize that competitive pricing and the availability of a variety of products best serves the interests of consumers. CASAA firmly believes that by requiring e-cigarette sellers in Oklahoma to have a tobacco license, SB 802 will only serve to increase prices, decrease availability of premium e-cigarette liquid, and harm consumer choice.

Currently, e-cigarette stores in Oklahoma sell a variety of products that are imported from states across the U.S. and countries around the world. However, SB 802 would unduly restrict such imports by criminalizing a vendor (or a consumer) who purchases e-cigarette products from out-of-state vendors who do not hold an Oklahoma tobacco wholesaler’s license. Such a requirement is wholly unnecessary, and in fact may violate the Interstate Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Additionally, because many e-cigarette stores import nicotine-containing liquid into Oklahoma and mix and label their own e-liquid in Oklahoma, it is possible that SB 802 would require them to obtain: (1) a wholesaler’s license, which requires a $25,000 bond be put up with the Tax Commission; (2) a manufacturer’s license; and (3) a retailer’s license.

If SB 802 must pass out of this committee, the licensing provisions should be stripped in their entirety. However, as noted in Section 2, there is a potential peril in the language in the committee substitute bill that defines a “vapor product” as a “tobacco product.” If the licensing provisions are removed but “vapor products” are defined as “tobacco products,” the bill could still be read to require licensing.

(5) Stripping the Licensing Provision Would Also Remove the Online Sales Ban


If the Oklahoma Legislature approves SB 802 with the licensing provisions intact, it would criminalize what has become a common practice of thousands of Oklahoma citizens who will never hear about the prohibitions in SB 802 -- purchasing their e-cigarette supplies online from vendors both in the State of Oklahoma and across the U.S. Many of these Oklahomans live in rural areas of the State where e-cigarette stores are inaccessible. Others just appreciate the convenience of being able to order their e-cigarette products through the mail, especially when a particular product is not readily available locally.

This criminalization stems from the licensing requirement. If enacted, a “dealer” would be defined as someone who imports a “vapor product” into Oklahoma for distribution, sale, use, OR consumption. Such a “dealer” would be required to have a tobacco license to be in compliance with the law. ‘

While the Oklahoma Attorney General is unlikely to seek cases against consumers for violating this law, it is not in the best interests of Oklahoma citizens for such actions to even be possible. This committee should foreclose this possibility by removing the licensing provisions altogether from the bill. If e-cigarette are not subject to a tobacco license requirement, importing these products without a license would not constitute a crime.

For the foregoing reasons, CASAA urges you to report unfavorably on SB 802.

Sincerely,

Gregory Conley, J.D. / M.B.A.
(609) 947 - 8059
Legislative Director -- Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association (CASAA)

Footnote

[1] CASAA is a non-profit, all-volunteer organization with a grassroots membership of approximately 3,000 individuals from all walks of life. CASAA is dedicated to ensuring the availability of reduced harm alternatives to smoking and to providing smokers and non-smokers alike with honest information about those alternatives. Since its founding in 2009, CASAA has educated the public and increased awareness about the benefits of reduced harm alternatives to smoking. CASAA also encourages responsible legislative policy designed to improve public health by recognizing that smoke-free tobacco- and nicotine-containing products are inherently far less dangerous than smoking.

Oklahoma -- blu cigs.jpg
 
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