Ontario Ministry of Labour called upon for a ruling of unsafe work.

[struckus]

You don't get to play with RC helis at the office????
Great little stress relief.

lol definitely could where I work..and my kids got some for xmas..thanks for the idea

 

[GoatScrote]

THANK YOU VOCALEK!!!! This is the type of information we all need to keep handy!

Being afraid that e liquid coming into contact with your skin will somehow INSTAKILL you is a bit of a stretch, I'm still not sure what they're reasoning is on that one. I mean, I am by no means a super-human, but I inhale the stuff all the time, get a bit on my fingers here or there, and I'm just fine! That one... I'm just not sure what they were thinking on that one.

Yes, the battery exploding thing is ridiculous. I don't use Li-Po or Li-Ion batteries, I always use safe chemistry IMR batteries in a vented silver bullet. But then again, they never asked what batteries I use so I guess they wouldn't know. It is pretty interesting though that these people don't realize that their cellphone, laptop, ipod etc, all use lithium batteries, hell, even the battery on your desktop computer motherboard for the CMOS is a lithium battery. Or maybe they do realize, and they're just stirring the pot up for the hell of it. Definitely getting frustrated trying to point out the implications of their own arguments, but, we must keep up the good fight!

 

[Vocalek]

the batteries can explode and kill someone? well then they must ban all cellphones, laptops, tablets, and anything else that uses li-ion or li-po batteries..what a joke..

So far, thank God, there have been zero deaths from exploding batteries. There has been at least one injury that I know of (in Florida, treated in Texas), but that was the user himself, and did not affect any bystanders. We have never been given the entire story on that particular case. There was some conjecture that the person was not using a battery manufactured specifically for e-cigarettes, based on photos taken at the scene.

I would guess that the odds of a standard e-cigarette battery exploding in the work place and injuring co-workers would be slim -- perhaps on par with all the known incidents of cell phones exploding in the work place, causing multiple injuries (none that I know of.)

 

[albcig]

just posting so i follow this thread. but on the other hand you have to understand that in some ways we are the people who bring this new thing called vaping among the other people who ofc are afraid of it because they know nothing about it. if you read the Allegory of the cave by Plato you will see that the bringer of the news is always alone. its somehow relieving to see that deep ignorance is found everywhere, not just in the city where i live.

 

[Lilkurty]

Vocalek! You Rock!
I'm going to try and subscribe to this thread or what ever so I can find it again!

 

[Tgoode]

To show the folly of their ways you need to dig up msds on other substances commonly found in workplaces that will show they are making an overblown case. I'm thinking things like correcting fluid (white-out/liquid paper) cleaning products, permanent and dry erase markers, coffee, etc. Some of those will have msds sheets that are more alarming than pg, or vg. You already know the battery angle. Make the argument that if they ban ecigs, you'll be justified to launch a crusade against Lysol, mouthwash, dry erase markers, isopropyl alcohol, bleach, sodium thiosulphate, xylene, laptop batteries, gasoline in car fuel tanks, dihydrogen monoxide, etc.

 

[Regzzz]

To show the folly of their ways you need to dig up msds on other substances commonly found in workplaces that will show they are making an overblown case. I'm thinking things like correcting fluid (white-out/liquid paper) cleaning products, permanent and dry erase markers, coffee, etc. Some of those will have msds sheets that are more alarming than pg, or vg. You already know the battery angle. Make the argument that if they ban ecigs, you'll be justified to launch a crusade against Lysol, mouthwash, dry erase markers, isopropyl alcohol, bleach, sodium thiosulphate, xylene, laptop batteries, gasoline in car fuel tanks, dihydrogen monoxide, etc.

And don't forget the worst!

Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death.

Dihydrogen monoxide:
- is the major component of acid rain
- contributes to the "greenhouse effect"
- it can cause severe burns in its gaseous state
- contributes to erosion
- accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals
- may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes
- has been found in tumors of terminal cancer patients

Despite the dangers, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:
- as an industrial solvent and coolant.
- in nuclear power plants.
- in the production of styrofoam.
- as a fire ......ant.
- in many forms of cruel animal research.
- as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be done to stop them because this practice is still legal.

The American government has refused to ban the production, distribution, or use of this damaging chemical due to its "importance to the economic health of this nation." In fact, the navy and other military organizations are conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar devices to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Hundreds of military research facilities receive tons of it through a highly sophisticated underground distribution network. Many store large quantities for later use.

Dihydrogen monoxide is also known in it's common name as Water.

 

[Spac]

Previous post made me laugh... Good one....

 

[GoatScrote]

Don't forget dihydrogen monoxide was used by the Nazis to murder Jews.

 

[Ayce]

Responding to keep track. I want to look at those test papers later, as well.

One thing came to mind, but I may be well off base.

We all know, union reps and mangers are not poor, and possibly have investments. Possibly in the tobbaco industries. Anything that could mess with that should be outlawed! Too bad there is no way to get that kind of information. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[DKM2]

I remember it was mentioned earlier in this thread about Ontario Human Rights.
So I’ll just comment on that because it’s a bit of a been there done that I did for a relative.
I’m no lawyer, just an engineer, but this can easily be done, all by yourself, and mostly
online until you get to the hearing stage.
However, you need to realize there is a certain stigma attached to doing this,
mostly because of the media and the few weird cases they report on which are
like 1 in maybe a 2000 valid cases. So if you do and anyone asks about it
the usual PR response applies, “can’t comment on a ongoing investigation”
(something like that anyways)

That said, I’d say it’s a last resort, but if both the union and the company is against you????
What can you do.

Once you file a claim, against both the union and the company and any persons, and its accepted.
It’ll take about 4 months to get a pre-hearing (by phone), during that time they’d have a
hard time firing you, and you can keep filing evidence, various studies, etc, against them
every week until 7 days before the hearing, all by email in the comfort of your own home.
Pound them into the ground with facts!

If they are allowing all the other toxic activities to continue and not allowing your
Non-toxic activity, that’s discrimination, looks like employment and maybe disability claim.
Basically all discrimination comes from ignorance. Prove that and you got a case.

Like I said though, think hard before you go this route, you need to think like a lawyer.
(the free lawyer service they offer, imho, they suck! forget them, fight it yourself)
OHR guides you right through it though; link;
The Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario |

Note: max compensation is $5000, don’t ask for it though, leave them a way out,
all you want is to be treated fairly.
If you ever change it to a civil suit, your case is suspended until that case is concluded.

Two can play the game.

For what its worth, DKM. you know the situation 10 times what I do.

 

[Kagey K]

Wow SloHand I just read this thread because of the link in my other thread and now that one seems so trivial. I'm sorry that you have to endure all this bureaucratic BS. I hope everything works out well for you, not only for you but if your union and companies decide to take this action there could be a ripple wave across Canada in the unions.

That's too much power for a few prude tightwads who refuse to go to work to have. Best of luck. I wish I could add more to this, but I was looking for similar information myself.

 

[SloHand]

.... but if your union and companies decide to take this action there could be a ripple wave across Canada in the unions.

That's too much power for a few prude tightwads who refuse to go to work to have. Best of luck. I wish I could add more to this, but I was looking for similar information myself.

Kagey K you make a great point thought. If anyone out there is a member of a union, read your constitution. For the uninitiated that is different than you collective agreement. Your constitution will set out the rules by which your union is run and governed.

Find out how to get a resolution debated at your unions next convention.

What we should be doing here is debating and tailoring a resolution that all union members can bring forward to their fellow union members for debate and acceptance. Once in place it will become union policy.

So, something like this (and this will need a lot of work but just to get the idea started):

WHEREAS, tobacco is a harmful product, and,
WHEREAS, there are devices called PV that can greatly reduce peoples harm,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT our union implement a program of education to all on the good that vaping can have in our workplaces and our communities, for the good of the union. Blah, blah, blah….

So lets here a really good resolution ….

 

[Esharp]

Kagey K you make a great point thought. If anyone out there is a member of a union, read your constitution. For the uninitiated that is different than you collective agreement. Your constitution will set out the rules by which your union is run and governed.

Find out how to get a resolution debated at your unions next convention.

What we should be doing here is debating and tailoring a resolution that all union members can bring forward to their fellow union members for debate and acceptance. Once in place it will become union policy.

So, something like this (and this will need a lot of work but just to get the idea started):

WHEREAS, tobacco is a harmful product, and,
WHEREAS, there are devices called PV that can greatly reduce peoples harm,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT our union implement a program of education to all on the good that vaping can have in our workplaces and our communities, for the good of the union. Blah, blah, blah….

So lets here a really good resolution ….

SloHand you bring up some good points. And though I agree in your thought process, it may be a bit premature. With the FDA ready to make some decisions regarding e-cigs in April, this may set the tone for all future discussions. Will HC act independently of the FDA's rulings or will they tow the line? These two groups will set the policies of e-cigs whether we like it or not. Personally, I don't see the unions making policies that will be contrary to these groups. It's a wait and see thing right now. The new head of the Tobacco Products Division of the FDA is anti-smoking/nicotine with strong connections to BP. Mitch Zeller is his name and he is going to be very problematic to vapors everywhere. No matter what the FDA decides in April, it will take time to implement and probably with court challenges, but I feel it will set the tone for policy makers in every arena.

 

[Ayce]

SloHand you bring up some good points. And though I agree in your thought process, it may be a bit premature. With the FDA ready to make some decisions regarding e-cigs in April, this may set the tone for all future discussions. Will HC act independently of the FDA's rulings or will they tow the line? These two groups will set the policies of e-cigs whether we like it or not. Personally, I don't see the unions making policies that will be contrary to these groups. It's a wait and see thing right now. The new head of the Tobacco Products Division of the FDA is anti-smoking/nicotine with strong connections to BP. Mitch Zeller is his name and he is going to be very problematic to vapors everywhere. No matter what the FDA decides in April, it will take time to implement and probably with court challenges, but I feel it will set the tone for policy makers in every arena.

Is it just me, or is there an inherent conflict of interest here?

 

[Esharp]

Ayce this a big time conflict of interest. I started a thread called "Dose BP have a gunslinger heading the Tobacco Products of the FDA?". You should check out the links on the page.

 

[Ayce]

Thanks,E, I'll take a look.
I missed it, must be further back than pg 1.

Nope, I was just blind.

 

[blackHelix]

Keep in mind that Canadian politics has deep roots both in the tobacco & pharma industries which are in direct conflict to e-cigarettes

For instance the CPP (Canada Pension Plan) invests heavily in Imperial Tobacco Group - the largest tobacco manufacturer in Canada. ITG makes almost all of the name brand Canadian cigarettes (Du Maurier, Export, Players, etc). The financial stability of your old age pension (similar to social security in the US) is directly related to tobacco sales.

Canada Pension Plan's investments see 'explosive' growth - Business - CBC News

When I have some more time I'll post some more reports, but needless to say - we're/we've been up against a huge fight

 

[DKM2]

Maybe CPP should invest in ecigs, looks like a growing business, has to be better than tootsie rolls.
Fun aside, CPP has done a pretty job with ROI, better than my rrsp thats for sure.

 

[Esharp]

Hey SloHand - I found this; http://www.eccauk.org/images/pdf/employers-and-ecigarettes.pdf. This is what's going on in England, but may be of some use to you and your situation. Check it out. England is a little more progressive than we are regarding e-cigs.