The even bigger conflict of interest I see is that a federal agency tasked with administering our pensions chooses to support an industry that is known to knock 10 years off our lives. The last ten years where we'd receive pensions if we weren't dead.
Ontario Ministry of Labour called upon for a ruling of unsafe work.
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The even bigger conflict of interest I see is that a federal agency tasked with administering our pensions chooses to support an industry that is known to knock 10 years off our lives. The last ten years where we'd receive pensions if we weren't dead.
How can HC keep with the medical device route when the FDA, Holland and most of Germany lost that battle in court? Besides, that would mean that they would have to prove that it meets those claims in order to regulate that way right?
How can HC keep with the medical device route when the FDA, Holland and most of Germany lost that battle in court? Besides, that would mean that they would have to prove that it meets those claims in order to regulate that way right?
I'm thinking they could classify it as a medical device knowing full well that it would be challenged in court. Win or lose that court battle, they could effectively have the products removed till the outcome has been reached in court. Just because the FDA lost in the U.S. doesn't mean that will be the same verdict in Canada. But where I'm going with this is, and I didn't use the right wording in a previous post, HC can easily influence policy by publicly going full tilt against e-cigs. As far as proving anything, they don't have to. You can throw enough crap at the wall and some is bound to stick, just ask the ANTI's. All the things that the ANTI's are throwing is totally bogus, and they don't have to prove anything. I'm sure the courts will decide one way or another, but in the meantime we could very easily be left in limbo. I just wish HC would take a hard look at Sweden and England, they are all about harm reduction. Here, there is so much money working against us (BT, BP & tax revenues) plus the lobbing that goes with that, it makes me wonder if we will ever get a fair shake in this.
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Excellent advice! I suggest that you not only deliver peer reviewed scientific papers, but obtain and deliver a doctor's opinion that vaping is safer than smoking for your personal health and for the health of those around you. If your current GP will not provide that opinion, then find a doctor who vapes and who will provide that opinion. As your opponents are attempting to make this a health and safety issue, meet and defeat them on that ground. It is unlikely that your opponents will be able to produce a doctor's opinion to the effect that smoking is safer than vaping and so the preponderance of evidence will support your position and not theirs.
Slohand, a thread not far away that would be very useful.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-study-what-vapor-we-exhale.html#post8752853
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-study-what-vapor-we-exhale.html#post8752853
Yeah, you know I was watching this DCARE 2011 - Panel Discussion - YouTube from a post from Stubby in another thread. It's Mitch Zeller, now of FDA and early on in the video you'll see the Irish? guy next to the podium respond to Mitch about how the Swedes who invented NRT realized the value of tobacco harm reduction and advertise it that way so that the public has the facts. You can see his physical reaction of disgust when Mitch speaks right after him. It seems clear by his body language the frustration that he has with the obvious manipulation of the facts here in NA,
Thanks Stubby...http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...head-tobacco-products-center-impact-us-2.html
I totally agree. It's as if his positions is, "don't confuse me the facts, my mind is already made up". He is going to be a problem for us. We'll have to ride this one out and see what it looks like when the dust settles.
So I got an email today from management with an amendment to the vaping policy:
"Management has further considered that there are unknown risks associated with the chemicals used in e-cigarettes and has concluded that additional measures would be appropriate to ensure the safety of staff in the workplace.
These additional measures are:
Chemicals used for vaping must not be mixed within the building.
Vaping devices cannot be cleaned, disassembled, or assembled within the building.
No amount of chemicals used for vaping other than those already in a vaping device are to be brought into the building."
I sent out a LOT of links today - thanks again Vocalek! - hoping that some facts might help. This has got to be fueled by people not having accurate facts. There's some fearmongering happening for sure, and people are believing the BS. On the up side, several people stopped to tell me that they thought it was BS too, so at least some people aren't fooled so easily...
"Management has further considered that there are unknown risks associated with the chemicals used in e-cigarettes and has concluded that additional measures would be appropriate to ensure the safety of staff in the workplace.
These additional measures are:
Chemicals used for vaping must not be mixed within the building.
Vaping devices cannot be cleaned, disassembled, or assembled within the building.
No amount of chemicals used for vaping other than those already in a vaping device are to be brought into the building."
I sent out a LOT of links today - thanks again Vocalek! - hoping that some facts might help. This has got to be fueled by people not having accurate facts. There's some fearmongering happening for sure, and people are believing the BS. On the up side, several people stopped to tell me that they thought it was BS too, so at least some people aren't fooled so easily...
Awww damn....you mean you can't steam distill and emulsify nicotine right at your desk? That's Oppression.
Looks like you should start loading up on these baby's..... Grab 10 ego batteries and 10 of these and fill them all up before work. Make sure you use a heavy VG juice.
6.0ML Dual Coil Tank (DCT) Tank / Cartomiser - VapingVision - V V - FREE DELIVERY ON ALL ORDERS
And if one of them starts to leak all over the place, ask management to call in the Hazmat team. Remember...you can't clean it yourself.
But seriously, this is definitely BS. You can always tell the pitchfork waving .........'s when they start saying things like "Chemicals used for vaping". Chemicals? really? That's the word you're going with? You know what else is a "chemical" - Water.
This has me thinking now...
"Chemicals used for vaping must not be mixed within the building."
So if I wanted to, I could bring in 100mg/ml concentrated nicotine AS LONG AS I didn't mix it for the purposes of vaping? What if I just wanted to put some in my coffee? What if I wanted to put it in someone else's coffee? Wait........I didn't say that out loud did I?
"Chemicals used for vaping must not be mixed within the building."
So if I wanted to, I could bring in 100mg/ml concentrated nicotine AS LONG AS I didn't mix it for the purposes of vaping? What if I just wanted to put some in my coffee? What if I wanted to put it in someone else's coffee? Wait........I didn't say that out loud did I?
Well, see the part where it says "No amount of chemicals used for vaping other than those already in a vaping device are to be brought into the building."? That part is extra dicey. So under this policy, no chemicals that are used in vaping can be brought into the building. Let's take a closer look:
Propylene Glycol - This is the main ingredient in E-Liquid, but it is also found in things such as soap, asthma inhalers, cosmetics etc... Shouldn't all of these products now be banned from the building, not just E-Liquid? I'm not going to bother going on further with Glycerol, food flavourings, nicotine, distilled water, alcohol etc... You can see where I'm going with this. The way this policy is written, technically, you would have to come to work bare-assed naked with no makeup, deodorant etc... seeing as those contain "chemicals used for vaping.". Oh but I'll take 'er another step down crazy lane - I use a silver bullet with a kick, IMR EH 18500 1100mah, and a DiD clone with a borosilicate tank tube. So then are all items containing brass, aluminum, solder, rubber, delrin etc... all banned too, unless they are attached to a PV?
Sorry for the rant lol, but you can see the level of competence we're dealing with here. I think I'm going to have to start going over people's heads until I manage to find someone who will look at this with an open mind.
Propylene Glycol - This is the main ingredient in E-Liquid, but it is also found in things such as soap, asthma inhalers, cosmetics etc... Shouldn't all of these products now be banned from the building, not just E-Liquid? I'm not going to bother going on further with Glycerol, food flavourings, nicotine, distilled water, alcohol etc... You can see where I'm going with this. The way this policy is written, technically, you would have to come to work bare-assed naked with no makeup, deodorant etc... seeing as those contain "chemicals used for vaping.". Oh but I'll take 'er another step down crazy lane - I use a silver bullet with a kick, IMR EH 18500 1100mah, and a DiD clone with a borosilicate tank tube. So then are all items containing brass, aluminum, solder, rubber, delrin etc... all banned too, unless they are attached to a PV?
Sorry for the rant lol, but you can see the level of competence we're dealing with here. I think I'm going to have to start going over people's heads until I manage to find someone who will look at this with an open mind.
Bring a couple of litres of VG and PG in one day - challenge them with the Shoppers Drugmart receipt.
On that note Projectguy, I was thinking of making some sort of ridicu-mizer, maybe a 2 litre pop bottle for the tank, or even as conservative as a 30ml bottle. Basically a genesis style tank that holds a CRAPTON of E-Liquid. any ideas?
There is a "Desk Pipe" described somewhere that basically does exactly that. I don't think they call it that but if I remember correctly it holds a chit load.
Even better and this will conflict their nematode synapses is the Stanley Cup vaper that Shooter (JR Custom Turnings) made last year.
I would just leave it as is and work within their own policies. As I'm reading it, it looks like the "No amount of chemicals used for vaping" could mean you can't bring in liquid INTENDED for the purpose of vaping, not necessarily just because it's IN eliquid (if that makes sense?). The part about assembly, to me, looks like they don't want you messing with the atty at work (I guess so you can't add liquid?). But again, what if it leaks? If you prefill them you should be fine (according to the policy), but then again....you're dealing with a huge disconnect in logic so who knows what they really mean. And since when can you not disassemble something at work? What is this a dirty bomb?
At worst, could just trap them in circular reasoning and use all of this to show their gross incompetence. Or it could totally explode in your face and they could just ban vaping outright. It's a tough call man....
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