Orbtronics 18650 2900mAh High Drain Version part 1

Discussion in 'The GG' started by Bishopheals, Mar 3, 2013.

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  1. Bishopheals

    Bishopheals Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    ORBTRONIC 18650 2900HD

    hey folks just received two new Orbtronic 18650 2900 High drain Battery's from Sal. In the next few days I will exclusively be using these battery's with my most complicated coil builds to see if it can handle the pressure of my ideal vape. from .4-.7 ohms Dual Highlanders and Triple Highlanders.

    I will be making several followup videos during the course of the next 2 weeks and let you guys know what i uncover compared to MNKE batteries.

    I will be sending one of these batteries out to another heavy Low Rez vapor to test out with me that enjoys .4 -.6 ohms as well.

    If these perform extraordinary then ill do one a special video never seen before Quad Highlander coils.

     
  2. glauserjg

    glauserjg Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Was looking at these too I think I'll pick a couple up
     
  3. glauserjg

    glauserjg Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Just ordered some :) bish post your results!

    Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk 2
     
  4. anavidfan

    anavidfan Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Hey Bish, I use AW IMR(high drains) with my kicks, can these be used with a Kick?
     
  5. Bishopheals

    Bishopheals Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Please guys let me say this I am not encouraging anyone to order anything. Im not even done testing these batteries. please wait till Im done and then i can give you all my findings that way you can make a better decision.

    So far from testing it with MNKE, AW IMR the following I can say. From 4.1 volts fully charged all three battery in use in a GGTS with .6 ohms dual coil that on my tank ometer reads when powered on I get 3.8 volts on ORBTRONIC 18650 2900HD, Aw 18650 2000 mah is 3.4 volts, and mnke 18650 I get 3.6 volts.

    that is only thing I can share at this moment. I really need more time to stress these batteries and see how it performs after 4 to 5 cycles of draining and recharging to compare. As of now its to early to make any decision. many things can happen, it can die after 2-3 cycles of recharging or at fully charged 4.1 volts it can spit out on a load of .6 ohms 3.2volts.

    Give me a few days to give you another followup but till then stick with what you using.
    If anyone has any questions feel free to ask them here. that way i can forward them to Sal.


    LIVE HARD AND VAPE HARD BABY!!!!
     
  6. glauserjg

    glauserjg Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I ordered them at my own risk :) didnt think you implied any sort of recomendation. No worries here I like trying new stuff!
     
  7. ManniGfaltig

    ManniGfaltig Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    As far as I could see, these are rewrapped Panasonic NCR18650PD 2900 , or am I wrong?

    We have a chart for this battery, it looks pretty decent: AkkuDB (5A load)
     
  8. Bishopheals

    Bishopheals Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Hi Manni I'm thinking about that too so I emailed Sal about it. From what I can see the other one you mention is protected and are not high drain and these are. But I'm waiting for Sal to get back to me in regards to what are the differences between them. The other thing I'm noticing is the price difference between those two batteries.

    NCR18650PD High Drain one battery for $13.99
    NCR18650PD High Drain 18650 2900 mAh

    Protected NCR18650 2 batteries for $12.99
    NCR18650 PROTECTED 18650 Battery 2900mAh

    So far for the ones I'm testing are NCR18650PD
    Max Discharge (constant current): 10Amps
    Max Discharge Pulse Current (5-6 sec.): 18Amps

    Here is my personal sweet spots:
    .7 ohms @ 4.2 volts is a total of 6 amps. 25 watt
    .6 ohms @ 4.2 volts is a total of 7 amps. 29.4 watt
    .5 ohms @ 4.2 volts is a total of 8.4 amps. 35.28 watt
    .4 ohms @ 4.2 volts is a total of 10.5 amps. 44.1 watt (one of my favs)(I use special batteries for these)

    Special times only with a 26650 battery
    .3 ohms @ 4.2 volts is a total of 14 amps 58.8 watts
    .25 ohms @ 4.2 volts is a total of 16.8 amps 70.56 watts
    .2 ohms @ 4.2 volts is a total of 21 amps 88.2 watts

    Now according to specs for this NCR18650PD 2900 High Drain Battery
    Battery type: 18650 Li-ion Hybrid
    Capacity: 2900mAh
    Max Discharge (constant current): 10A
    Max Discharge Pulse Current (5-6 sec.): 18A
    Full charge: 4.2V
    Charging method: CV/CC
    Minimum charging current: 0.6A
    Rapid Charging current: 1.35A
    Nominal (storage) voltage: 3.6V-3.7V
    Minimum discharge voltage level: 2.5V
    Dimensions: W 18.5mm x H 66.5mm
    Weight: 45g
    External Protection (PCB): No
    Button top: Yes

    Since Max pulse current (meaning) pressing fire button 5-6 seconds and releasing battery can handle up to 18a. I don't think I would be doing anything below .3 ohms with this battery.
    As I shown above .3 ohms at 4.2 volts gives you 14 amps @58.8 watts.
    Now the battery I would use if I wanted to do .25 ohms @ 4.2 volts which is 16.8 amps at 70.56 watts would be a AW IMR 18650 1600 mAh (not sure about MNKE haven’t tried it this low before). Since NCR18650PD offers the pulse rate of 5-6 seconds release up to 18amps I will be testing it once battery reaches its 4th recharge cycle.

    Someone else tested the Aw IMR 18650 1600 mAh High Drain up to 20 amps
    u can view.
    Test of AW IMR 18650 1600mAh (Red)

    That’s it for now Ill keep you gys updated as I continue testing this battery. Anyone have any questions feel free to ask I’m more than happy to forward any questions to Sal.
     
  9. Supacrazyguy

    Supacrazyguy Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Bish great data , I think your numbers are off though . A fully charged battery may be 4.2 volts but thats only without a load , under load voltage drops and the bigger the load the more the voltage drop .
    Insert dirty jokes about load here .........

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
     
  10. PhreakySTS9

    PhreakySTS9 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    88.2 watts?!?! :shock: You're a mad man!!! :D
     
  11. Bishopheals

    Bishopheals Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Ill include the underload numbers soon. Reason why I didnt add them is becuase I'm doing a side by side comparison with Aw Imr2000 and MNKE 18650.

    So far NCR18650PD High Drain at this moment at 4.15V fully charged gives me on .6 ohms is 3.85V. only a .3 volt drop

    MNKE at 4.15V fully charged gives me on .6 ohms is 3.6V. only a .55 volt difference

    Aw IMr at 4.15V fully charged gives me on .6 ohms is 3.5v-3.6V. only a .55-.65 volt difference

    Thats a rough from my logs but Ill include more data and info later on as I keep pushing these batteries.
     
  12. glauserjg

    glauserjg Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Do you habe a panosonic cgr18650 to compare to?

    Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk 2
     
  13. Bishopheals

    Bishopheals Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Sal responded to my email asking him the differences between those two 2900mah i mentioned above. heres his reponse

    "Hi,

    Wrong approach would be. If you see 2900mAh , and another 2900mAh cell you think they are the same capacity. That is wrong.

    NCR18650, and NCR18650PD are 2 completely different cells made for different applications (market).

    I will just give you simple answer : NCR18650 (gray) cell is NOT high drain cell, and it is intended for up to 5.8A .

    NCR18650PD (Orbtronic PD2900) is model made for high drain applications 10 A constant current, and pick current of 18 A .

    PV users usually use cell without protection, and if inner PV dimensions provide enough space - they use protected (longer) version.

    There are 2 available Orbtronic models: PD 2900 - cell with top button, no external protection, and PD 2900-P - cell with external protection which is longer
    68.9mm, and wider 18.6mm

    Both models use the same Panasonic NCR18650PD HIGH DRAIN"
     
  14. ManniGfaltig

    ManniGfaltig Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    The problem I see with these batteries is that they are groupes into.the NCR profile which is the unsafe profile (aka not LiMn or similar self secure).
    But if one is aware of potential.problem one can go with these.
    I remember some tests of the old NCR 2900mAh made by the NASA and they forced them into thermal runaway and also into explosions - I think its good to assume that behaviour for these batteries too!
    (NCR=high capacity, less security; CGR=less capacity, high security)
     
  15. Bishopheals

    Bishopheals Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    aware is key and just not exceeding the limits is all.
     
  16. Supacrazyguy

    Supacrazyguy Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    .3v isn't bad at all :) was also wondering when using a .2 ohm coil how much power is being lost due to resistance of mod . if your mod has a .1 ohm resistance then one third of your power could be going to hand warming duties :) BTW are these by any chance lithium ion cobalt chemistry ? If so be careful .
     
  17. Bishopheals

    Bishopheals Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Ok next set of emails

    Bishop:
    what I'm using is ohms calculator I do like to vape at .2 ohms but it ideal for a 26650 battery. most od the viewers would love to use a 18650 battery but cells and amps is issue.

    Ohm's Law Calculator

    I use the following setup fully charge battery 4.2, resistance .2 ohms comes out with 21 amps and 88.2 watts

    to accomplish this task 26650 are ideal do to amps. Viewers and people on the GG forum have been sending me many questions in regard if it be possible is all.

    So far using the batteries you sent me I'm on 2nd charge cycle using it at .6 ohms 4.15 volts comes to 6.9 amps with 28.7 watts. I will be taking it even lower after 4th charge cycle.

    So far its pumping as intended. I also notice that on load the voltage drop is less than MNKE and AW. IM seeing only a .4 volt drop compared to .5-.6 volt drop on load.


    Sal
    OK,

    A few tips to get numbers as close as possible to what really happening dusring your experiment.

    1. After fully charging your battery - leave it for 45 min. to rest (resting period is very important). It will give you real voltage that you will start with.
    2. Use good calibrated multimeter (Fluke is one of the best).
    3. There is a difference between 4.2V, and 4.178V.
    4. After 3rd cycle battery will give you reading closer to real situation.


    Orbtronic PD 2900 is targeting PV users who wants max. vaping time, and as high as posible voltage during that time.

    For your experiments (as I mentioned in my previous letter) only where run time is not that important, but only the row power I have the right cell.

    You need something that have very small voltage drop when higher load is applied, with very low internal resistance (cell).


    Sal



    I'll keep you guys updated.
     
  18. ManniGfaltig

    ManniGfaltig Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Bish is carefull - I hope this gets also clear for anyone who wants to experiment with these!
    The chemistry is called NCR / LiNiCoAl, so Cobalt is included and Manganese is not...
    These cells have around 40mOhms - dont forget these in your calculations, so it would be 0.3+0.1+0.04 (10%) ;-)
     
  19. Bishopheals

    Bishopheals Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Sal got me and informed of the composition

    Your followers will probably ask about chemical composition.

    This is not Li-Co cell.

    Chemical Composition :
    Positive electrode (cathode): Lithium Nickel Oxide
    Negative electrode (Anode): Carbon
    Electrolyte: Organic electrolyte (mainly composed of alkyl carbonate)


    Sal
     
  20. imeothanasis

    imeothanasis Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

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    do they have less posibility for explotion than AW batteries Bish?
     

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