Origen v2 as my first genny?

[3mhmama]

I stopped in at a local b&m the other day to stock up on some juice and of course had to browse their stock of rdas and rtas. I asked the woman about the avocado atty, and she said that if I wanted to look at that style of rta, I should really go with the Origen they had there, and that it was hands down, one of the best flavor rtas out there. I didn't pick up new gear that day, but now I'm intrigued.

I currently rotate between a rose v2, ubertoot clone, velocity mini, and a derringer, and like so many here, can't help but look for another piece of flavor-chasing gear. The woman in the store said I could build the Origen with cotton and that the flavor was stellar, but everything I've ever read about gennies seems to suggest that stainless steel mesh is the way to go. I've never worked with mesh before, and it looks like there are a number of different types to choose from.

Here are some questions I have, and any help/advice would be appreciated:
1) is the flavor from the Origen like that of a good rda? Better? On par? And is the flavor generated largely from mesh wicks, or the engineering/design of Genesis-type atties?
2) what type of mesh should I get? The juices I vape are typically heavier vg, but not all. It seems like the choice of mesh you use depends on how thick your juice is?
3) what gauge wire should I use? And how many wraps/ohms seem to be a sweet spot?
4) thoughts on cotton wicking in the Origen? (I'd like to try mesh out, but am curious how cotton performs in case I fail miserably at mesh wicks)
5) besides a mini blowtorch (any recommendations?), are there any other building materials I'd need beyond what's typically required for building an rta/rda?
6) if the Origen doesn't sit upright, and tilts over on its side while its in my bag, will it leak everywhere?

Thanks!


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[herb]

If it's half as good as the RDA models it will be superb , in my top 3 all time for flavor.

 

[VictorC]

Here are some questions I have, and any help/advice would be appreciated:
1) is the flavor from the Origen like that of a good rda? Better? On par? And is the flavor generated largely from mesh wicks, or the engineering/design of Genesis-type atties?
2) what type of mesh should I get? The juices I vape are typically heavier vg, but not all. It seems like the choice of mesh you use depends on how thick your juice is?
3) what gauge wire should I use? And how many wraps/ohms seem to be a sweet spot?
4) thoughts on cotton wicking in the Origen? (I'd like to try mesh out, but am curious how cotton performs in case I fail miserably at mesh wicks)
5) besides a mini blowtorch (any recommendations?), are there any other building materials I'd need beyond what's typically required for building an rta/rda?
6) if the Origen doesn't sit upright, and tilts over on its side while its in my bag, will it leak everywhere?

Let me try to answer, based on my experience with Origen MK II 6 ml version.
1. Origen is highly regarded for flavour. Excellent with both cotton and mesh.
2. Higher VG - 200, higher PG - 400. Torch mesh before and after rolling.
3. 28 GA, 5-6 wraps over the larger hole works for me. Clapton 26/32 works fine too..
4. I am using mostly cotton lately and mesh when have time to deal with hot spots.
5. None
6. Most likely yes
Don't forget to put some juice on o-rings.

 

[3mhmama]

Let me try to answer, based on my experience with Origen MK II 6 ml version.
1. Origen is highly regarded for flavour. Excellent with both cotton and mesh.
2. Higher VG - 200, higher PG - 400. Torch mesh before and after rolling.
3. 28 GA, 5-6 wraps over the larger hole works for me. Clapton 26/32 works fine too..
4. I am using mostly cotton lately and mesh when have time to deal with hot spots.
5. None
6. Most likely yes
Don't forget to put some juice on o-rings.

Thanks. Are there things I can do in my build to mitigate the likelihood of leaking, or is this just the nature of gennies? I saw some reviews of the nextgen that said it wasn't prone to leaking, and it looked like an easier arty to build. Any experience with this atty? (Though it looks impossible to find one - authentic or clone!)
What are some of your favorite atties for flavor? I like the convenience of my rose and ubertoot while out running around, and the flavor from those two tanks is great, but when I go back to my rdas, for a fuller, thicker vape, I'm reminded how yummy dripping can be! I'm wondering if a genny gets me closer to the flavor richness of a good rda?

 

[VictorC]

Only you can answer your questions Nextgen is not 100% leak proof either. Phenomenal MTL atty btw. I don't have Rose or Uberoot, but do have Hurricane (close to Uber). They are all great and yet different.
Since you are looking for convenience, leak proof and saturated vape check out Kayfun M3 (RTA). If you're looking only for mesh builds - Nextgen or IN'AX. Flexibility - Origen.

 

[3mhmama]

Only you can answer your questions Nextgen is not 100% leak proof either. Phenomenal MTL atty btw. I don't have Rose or Uberoot, but do have Hurricane (close to Uber). They are all great and yet different.
Since you are looking for convenience, leak proof and saturated vape check out Kayfun M3 (RTA). If you're looking only for mesh builds - Nextgen or IN'AX. Flexibility - Origen.

Thanks Victor [emoji1360]

 

[Vaya]

To qualify myself: I've been vaping for seven years, and have been a die-hard penny enthusiast for about five of those. I have all types of devices and am quite comfortable with the preparation, use, chemistry and performance of nearly all wicking and wire types. These are my thoughts on your questions, one by one, as I sit here vaping an authentic Origenny MKiir 4mL by Norbert.

1) is the flavor from the Origen like that of a good rda? Better? On par? And is the flavor generated largely from mesh wicks, or the engineering/design of Genesis-type patties?

The Origen's flavor blows the flavor from nearly every RDA I've ever tried (by this point, at least sixty of 'em). There's no contest, in my opinion and experience.

The crisp, clear and unmuffled flavor results from several factors. For one, because a mesh wick is metal, there is no wick 'material' to mute and/or alter the flavor. I have bags of some of the finest Japanese cotton given to me by friends and modders over the years, and I can appreciate cotton. It has its place, and can taste phenomenal. But comparing the flavor from mesh/SS cable to cotton is - to me - a futile pursuit, for there is no comparing the two.

The flavor from the Origen specifically can be attributed to several engineering factors featured on the atomizer. The slight inverted curvature of the interior top cap gathers the aromatic vapors in a concentrated fashion before they travel through the drip tip. The Origen also features interchangeable single- and dual- coil 'decks' that are mounted to the atomizer deck with screws. Despite choosing single or dual coils, each mountable deck has raised 'lumps,' like mini hills, that rise to the left and right of the coil. This reduces the size of the chamber (see picture below), increases the warmth of the vape, and - in doing so - increases the clarity of the flavor.

2) what type of mesh should I get? The juices I vape are typically heavier vg, but not all. It seems like the choice of mesh you use depends on how thick your juice is?

Ah, the age old question! As a previous poster implies with his suggestions, lower-numbered mesh promotes wicking better for thicker juices. #200-325 work well with higher VG juices, and #4-500 work better with higher PG juices. There are, however, many variations... for example, you could roll a solid wick of #200 and then roll a sleeve of #400 around it. You can also alternate between solid wicks or 'straw' wicks (wicks rolled around a pin, or paperclip, etc. such that they have a hollow center). My personal go-to is SS cable, because for me, it wicks very well no matter what the viscosity of the juice I'm using. I make a sleeve around the upper half of the SS cable with #400 mesh, 2-3 revolutions of it. This is part of the absolute fun of genesis vaping - messing around with different things to find what works the best for you

3) what gauge wire should I use? And how many wraps/ohms seem to be a sweet spot?

I've messed with a lot of combinations in the past. These are what work best for me, with an average wick whose diameter might measure ~2.5mm:
1.) 5 wraps of 28g kanthal
2.) 4 wraps of 30g kanthal
3.) 5 wraps of 30g Ni200 using temperature control at 420F @ 15-20W

4) thoughts on cotton wicking in the Origen? (I'd like to try mesh out, but am curious how cotton performs in case I fail miserably at mesh wicks)

If it were me, and I were dead-set on using cotton in the Origen, I would screw the dual-coil deck down onto the atomizer, leaving the two largest wick holes uncovered. I'd then create a single, horizontal coil in between the two large wick holes and make a U-wick of cotton with two tails, each one leading down into the tank (don't stuff it, but don't leave too much wiggle room either. It's a fine line). That being said, I've no desire or intent to use cotton in this gem; it performs at its peak and pinnacle using mesh/SS cable for me.

5) besides a mini blowtorch (any recommendations?), are there any other building materials I'd need beyond what's typically required for building an rta/rda?

Get a chef's mini-torch, the kind with a handle and that looks like a pistol. It's small, versatile and powerful.
Other materials needed... lemme see....
1. Wick material (mesh, cable)
2. Your wire of choice
3. screwdriver/allen key (as the case may be)
4. ceramic tipped (preferably) tweezers for working out hotspots
5. Spare juice to soak the wick with as you're making it, after which you light it and let the juice burn off to create an even better oxidation layer between the mesh and the wire.
6. I've found other materials necessary here and there. Ruler, scissors, X-acto knife, paper clips, wire cutters, micro pliers, cable cutters, etc.

6) if the Origen doesn't sit upright, and tilts over on its side while its in my bag, will it leak everywhere?

Because its fill hole has a screw-in plug, I've never had an issue with leaking. That being said, the Origenny is not 'leak-proof,' but it's certainly leak-resistant and I would never let the thread of leakage deter me from exploring the wonders of this lovely atomizer.



~ Vaya

 

[EddieAdams]

Great post Vaya. I have the tobeco clone. 6ml glass. Best tank to date IMHO.

I used one of the larger holes meant for cotton and did a single solid 400 mesh. Wrapped in 26g kanthal .5ohms. It's amazing. Give it a try.

 

[VictorC]

Very nice write-up, Vaya. Can you post pics with your SS cable builds? I haven't tried it yet.

 

[3mhmama]

To qualify myself: I've been vaping for seven years, and have been a die-hard penny enthusiast for about five of those. I have all types of devices and am quite comfortable with the preparation, use, chemistry and performance of nearly all wicking and wire types. These are my thoughts on your questions, one by one, as I sit here vaping an authentic Origenny MKiir 4mL by Norbert.



The Origen's flavor blows the flavor from nearly every RDA I've ever tried (by this point, at least sixty of 'em). There's no contest, in my opinion and experience.

The crisp, clear and unmuffled flavor results from several factors. For one, because a mesh wick is metal, there is no wick 'material' to mute and/or alter the flavor. I have bags of some of the finest Japanese cotton given to me by friends and modders over the years, and I can appreciate cotton. It has its place, and can taste phenomenal. But comparing the flavor from mesh/SS cable to cotton is - to me - a futile pursuit, for there is no comparing the two.

The flavor from the Origen specifically can be attributed to several engineering factors featured on the atomizer. The slight inverted curvature of the interior top cap gathers the aromatic vapors in a concentrated fashion before they travel through the drip tip. The Origen also features interchangeable single- and dual- coil 'decks' that are mounted to the atomizer deck with screws. Despite choosing single or dual coils, each mountable deck has raised 'lumps,' like mini hills, that rise to the left and right of the coil. This reduces the size of the chamber (see picture below), increases the warmth of the vape, and - in doing so - increases the clarity of the flavor.





Ah, the age old question! As a previous poster implies with his suggestions, lower-numbered mesh promotes wicking better for thicker juices. #200-325 work well with higher VG juices, and #4-500 work better with higher PG juices. There are, however, many variations... for example, you could roll a solid wick of #200 and then roll a sleeve of #400 around it. You can also alternate between solid wicks or 'straw' wicks (wicks rolled around a pin, or paperclip, etc. such that they have a hollow center). My personal go-to is SS cable, because for me, it wicks very well no matter what the viscosity of the juice I'm using. I make a sleeve around the upper half of the SS cable with #400 mesh, 2-3 revolutions of it. This is part of the absolute fun of genesis vaping - messing around with different things to find what works the best for you



I've messed with a lot of combinations in the past. These are what work best for me, with an average wick whose diameter might measure ~2.5mm:
1.) 5 wraps of 28g kanthal
2.) 4 wraps of 30g kanthal
3.) 5 wraps of 30g Ni200 using temperature control at 420F @ 15-20W



If it were me, and I were dead-set on using cotton in the Origen, I would screw the dual-coil deck down onto the atomizer, leaving the two largest wick holes uncovered. I'd then create a single, horizontal coil in between the two large wick holes and make a U-wick of cotton with two tails, each one leading down into the tank (don't stuff it, but don't leave too much wiggle room either. It's a fine line). That being said, I've no desire or intent to use cotton in this gem; it performs at its peak and pinnacle using mesh/SS cable for me.



Get a chef's mini-torch, the kind with a handle and that looks like a pistol. It's small, versatile and powerful.
Other materials needed... lemme see....
1. Wick material (mesh, cable)
2. Your wire of choice
3. screwdriver/allen key (as the case may be)
4. ceramic tipped (preferably) tweezers for working out hotspots
5. Spare juice to soak the wick with as you're making it, after which you light it and let the juice burn off to create an even better oxidation layer between the mesh and the wire.
6. I've found other materials necessary here and there. Ruler, scissors, X-acto knife, paper clips, wire cutters, micro pliers, cable cutters, etc.



Because its fill hole has a screw-in plug, I've never had an issue with leaking. That being said, the Origenny is not 'leak-proof,' but it's certainly leak-resistant and I would never let the thread of leakage deter me from exploring the wonders of this lovely atomizer.



~ Vaya

Thanks for the detailed information and sharing, Vaya! That's exactly what I was looking for to get me started.

I decided to pick up a clone of the v2mk2 to see how I get along with building with mesh. I ordered some 350 mesh and a torch from lightning vapes that should arrive next week. I was hoping for some 325, but they were out, and the other websites I looked at seemed to sell mesh in these little squares, when I was looking for a larger sheet (I'm expecting a lot of trial and error in this learning process, so I wanted to have plenty to work with.) Any suggestions on places to pick up mesh that come in larger than 3"x3" sheets?

I'm swamped with work right now, but will try to find some time to throw a cotton build in there just to see how it vapes. I have high hopes for this atty, even with cotton, because a clone I had of the Origen v2 rda produced such an excellently flavored, dense vape. (I stopped using it because the negative screws that came with it had such small heads, it was difficult to trap wire under there, and I saw some rust forming too.) However, I do feel that if I'm going to go down the genny road, I really need to figure out how to work with mesh. By all accounts, that seems to be what makes the difference.

In the meantime, I'll do my homework and watch some mesh-building videos so that I'm ready to roll when my stuff gets here next week. I can't wait! I may have to try a local shop to see if they've got any mesh this weekend!


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[EddieAdams]

EBay. 12x12 sheets

 

[Vaya]

Benny the Stooge on eBay has large sheets that are well-priced. 9x9, 12x12, 15x15, think I've even seen 24x24 before.

 

[3mhmama]

Got my 350 mesh and a torch in today and tried to follow Kim's you tube video for a single coil mesh build.

I cut the wick into the same shape as Kim's and torched it all over. Then, I put it around a small hex key and rolled it up tight, pulling it a little loose, and then removing it from the hex key and rolling it up by hand.

I built a 2.4 mm coil, 26 gauge, 5 wraps, came out to .66 ohms. Made sure the coil fired well and that there were no hot spots.

Made sure the wick would fit into the coil, and then oxidized it some more. I watched another video where the guy did 4-5 juice burns, so I tried that before inserting the mesh in the coil. I inserted the wick, fired it a couple times to make sure no hot spots, and it seemed fine.

Added juice, then started hitting the fire button to see if it was wicking. I'd see the coils glow and then the wick would catch fire. (This was at about 4.2 volts, so I dropped voltage down to around 3.2 and still had the same problem.)

I tossed the first wick and tried again. Same problem! The rolling of the wick is easy enough, but I can't figure out what I'm getting wrong here. The mesh doesn't seem to be wicking well - nasty, dry hit city- and then of course there's the problem with Fire! Am I not oxidizing the mesh enough?

Here's a photo of my build and of it starting to catch fire:

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[TheotherSteveS]

Hot spot!!!

 

[Vaya]

What's the viscosity of the juice you're vaping?

 

[EddieAdams]

I skimmed your post but, is your wick hollow? Is there an opening down the middle? Theoretically, there is of course and will always be but, I've always rolled as solid a wick as possible. Starts with the inner lead edge and getting that tight. Without that it's impossible.

I've always rolled "solid"wicks and torched after I finished rolling. Roll as much mesh as I can into a wick. Make sure it fills the wick hole, not too snuggly though.

I torch until red hot and quench in water. Repeat 2 more times. Torch dry. Then do a juice burn. Let cool and you're ready.

Insert and wrap your coil. I like wrapping the wick because I feel it makes better contact. Sure you can't just remove and torch the wick without ruining the coil but, is throwing another coil on there that hard?

That's my process and it's worked very well for me.

Also that's pretty low ohms for that size wick. I'd try 28g if you have some. You don't need super low ohms for mesh...

 

[3mhmama]

What's the viscosity of the juice you're vaping?

75vg

 

[3mhmama]

I think I'm on my 6th or 7th attempt, and I think I'm getting closer to finding some success. I tried wrapping the coil around the wick (using 28g instead of 26), rather than the coil first and then inserting the wick. I spent more time working on looking for hot spots. I tried rolling a tighter roll of mesh (still using the smaller holes in the Origen). Each time I tried a different tweak, things seemed to get a little better, but the mesh still wasn't wicking well, and I still ended up getting dry hits.

I was only using about 2.5-3.5 cm of mesh (width-wise), but did some googling and found an old ecf post touting the benefits of 500 mesh (I only have 350) and rolling tighter, thicker wicks. The post is really long so I haven't read through it all, but I tried rolling a tighter 6.5 cm width wick that fit into a 28g, 3mm coil that came out to 1.25 ohms.

On this attempt, I went back to what I guess is the Petar k method (does he have a video or something? Who is he??), where I pulsed the coil to work out hot spots, oxidized the mesh one more time, and fit it into the coil. Pulsed it on a mech mod (this seems to be better for working on the coil to make sure it heats up evenly than through a regulated mod??), tried some juice on it to make sure it seemed to fire ok. I put a little juice in the tank to see how it was wicking and when I didn't see the coils glow red (which kept happening before because the mesh wasn't wicking well), I filled up the tank.

I had to keep the watts lower (around 10) than I would like at first, and I had to do a lot of genny tilting, but finally, no more dry hits! I can now push it to about 14-15 watts without the hint of a dry hit, as long as I keep tilting, and I don't chain vape too much. The flavor seems to be getting a little better, but I know the mesh still probably isn't wicking as well as it should because the flavor isn't coming through as much as I would expect.

So it seems like one of the reasons I was struggling so much with my first several builds was that I needed to have more mesh compressed tightly for the wick? I'll try even more next time and see if it wicks better. I've seen some posts on gennies that indicate if you build your mesh right (and pick the right kind of mesh), you don't even need to do the genny tilt.

So how much mesh do y'all start with when you start rolling?

Another question: is ss cable easier to work with? In the videos I've seen, it looks like you just torch the hell out of it, give it a mesh sleeve, coil it, and vape. Or is it like working with just mesh, and there's more to it than meets the eye? Is wicking better with cable?


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[BrotherBob]

Could read thru:
Preparing a stainless steel wick and coil for a Genesis style atomizer | VAPE Magazine
Might help.

 

[EddieAdams]

Honestly, I'd go with 50/50...

Cable is great even without a wrap. Have to have something to cut it. Proper mesh wick works as well if not better.