Penelope Coil Question

[ChrisEU]

There are different materials or alloys out there which are used for heating coils, for vaping the most used are:
NiChrome, Kanthal D and Kanthal A. They all come in different thicknesses and each has a specific resistance per square millimeter per meter.
It can get confusing, because people who describe their coils use different material and measurements.
Basically, what we want to do is to transfer energy into the wire so that it heats up and vaporizes the liquid. More power roughly equals more vape. There is more to it, of course.

Power is expressed in Watts. Ohms law tells us that power in Watts equals the square of the voltage in Volts multiplied by the resistance in Ohms. To get more power you will need higher resistance or higher voltage.

Thinner wires have a higher resistance than thicker wires - you can think of them as you would think of water tubes. It is harder to force the same amount of water through a straw than through a fire hose.

The longer the heating wire is, the higher the resistance will be.

Here are some values for the different materials and sizes of wire:
Kanthal D 0.20mm -> 43.8 Ohms per Meter
Kanthal A1 0.20mm -> 45.3 Ohms per Meter
typical NiChrome 0.20mm -> 34.4Ohms per Meter
Kanthal D 0.16mm -> 66.9 Ohms per Meter
Kanthal A1 0.16mm -> 69.8 Ohms per Meter
typical NiChrome 0.16mm -> 50.0 Ohms per Meter

You see that the type and size of wire used is significant. You cant just take 2 centimeters of any wire and get the same result.

Some more trivia:
Thinner wire heats faster than thicker wire
Thinner wire gets hotter with the same power than thicker wire
The smallest coil I ever found working well was out of 0.08 mm Kanthal D, It was only one and a half turns around the wick. You don't need a really long coil
Europeans use Kanthal D while Americans use Kanthal A1 - no idea why

 

[Ezkill]

That's really good extra information ChrisEU.

I've yet to build a coil with my .16mm Kanthal but with my multimeter I see the size of piece I need to get 3.0 ohms of resistance. Let's say it's 1.3 inches in length to get 3.0ohm.

Ok so here is the question part: Is that the total length of wire I need 1.3 inches including the part twisted with the no resistance silver wire. OR do I need 1.3 inches for the part that is coiled around the wick and the part that is twisted together has no bearing on total resistance.

Any assistance from you fine knowledgable people would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[ChrisEU]

Electric power takes the path with the least resistance - so if you have a heating wire and a silver wire in parallel, all the power will go through the silver wire. Only the piece of wire between the two connections counts for the total resistance.

Grmbl - hard to explain that stuff in a foreign language. Sorry for the awkward explanations

 

[Ezkill]

Not awkward at all Chris. That completely explains it.

I will want the piece of resistance wire that makes up the coil to be 1.3 inches and will need extra on the ends to twist to my .999 silver wire. I will probably start with a 2.5 inch piece and make sure that the size between the no resistance wires is 1.3 inches. That is a very big help. Thank you.

 

[ChrisEU]

You dont need to be that exact, really. Voltage plays a much higher role than resistance. I am sure you would not even notice a difference betwen a 3.5 Ohm coil and a 3.2 Ohm coil. Plus, all these materials are cheap, so leave the ends of the wires a bit longer and just cut it away later.
More important than the last millimeter in length is the way you wrap the coil around the wick. make sure that every tiny bit of resistance wire (between the connections) touches the wick, but don't strangle the wick with the wire.
When you mastered that, go ahead and fine tune the resistance, but it doesnt really matter all that much.

 

[Ezkill]

This is all really good stuff to know.

I'm a finance guy so this is all out of my usual area of operations.

I don't need to get to exactly 3ohms. I just wanted to get somewhere close to 3omhs and then I'll fine tune the vape with variable voltage on the Provari.

 

[RiverNut]

This is all really good stuff to know.

I'm a finance guy so this is all out of my usual area of operations.

I don't need to get to exactly 3ohms. I just wanted to get somewhere close to 3omhs and then I'll fine tune the vape with variable voltage on the Provari.

Thats what I want. This 1.9 coil is blowing through my batteries. Well I suppose thats because I'm vaping at 5 to 5.2v.

I'm not sure why it needs to be that high with a 1.9 coil but it does.

 

[Ezkill]

Thats what I want. This 1.9 coil is blowing through my batteries. Well I suppose thats because I'm vaping at 5 to 5.2v.

I'm not sure why it needs to be that high with a 1.9 coil but it does.

Interesting...I'm vaping at 3.7 on a 1.8 ohm coil. Tons of vapor and good flavor. I had it cranked way up but I like it at this voltage. I suppose it's all personal preference.

 

[ChrisEU]

I start to understand what you want. Let me guess - you are a tobacco-type vaper?
I had been thinking the reason for the 3 Ohm coil would be your PV - like a stacked 2x3,7 Volt manual. But you just like it hot and powerful and burned and manly.
Ok.
Your next order should include 0.13 and 0.10 mm Kanthal wire. They are a bit tricky to find, though. A 2.5 Ohm coil with those - and the Provari at 5 Volts - will show you something new =)

But leave that for later. That thin wire has its own will.

 

[Ezkill]

Hey Chris,

I don't like it burned but I do like a good solid throat hit. I just started vaping a few weeks ago and the throat hit is what's kept off of cigarettes. That being said when I did smoke I smoked a heavy cigarette.

The reason that I'm pretty set on a 3ohm coil is because out of all the stuff I've purchased in the last two weeks(LOTS of it) I've found I prefer a 2.8ohm - 3.0ohm coil vaped at around 4.6-5.0 volts. Sometimes I mellow it down and turn the voltage down to around 3.7.

I may be totally wrong and there might be something I like better. Luckily I do have several different types of kanthal wire and I will experiment with different coil types and see what I like on the Penelope.

I must say that this 1.8ohm coil that I've made at 3.7-4.4 volts is one of the better vapes I've had. It's really doing a good job with this VG juice. I'm pretty thrilled over all with the performance of the Penelope.

 

[RiverNut]

Hey Chris,

I don't like it burned but I do like a good solid throat hit. I just started vaping a few weeks ago and the throat hit is what's kept off of cigarettes. That being said when I did smoke I smoked a heavy cigarette.

The reason that I'm pretty set on a 3ohm coil is because out of all the stuff I've purchased in the last two weeks(LOTS of it) I've found I prefer a 2.8ohm - 3.0ohm coil vaped at around 4.6-5.0 volts. Sometimes I mellow it down and turn the voltage down to around 3.7.

I may be totally wrong and there might be something I like better. Luckily I do have several different types of kanthal wire and I will experiment with different coil types and see what I like on the Penelope.

I must say that this 1.8ohm coil that I've made at 3.7-4.4 volts is one of the better vapes I've had. It's really doing a good job with this VG juice. I'm pretty thrilled over all with the performance of the Penelope.

i was vaping 2.4 ohm attys at about 4v but with the ody, i need the 1.9 ohm at 5 to get good vapor production and throat hit. And like you, throat hit is what makes vaping FEEL like a cigarette. So you are getting TH with 100% VG?

 

[Ezkill]

i was vaping 2.4 ohm attys at about 4v but with the ody, i need the 1.9 ohm at 5 to get good vapor production and throat hit. And like you, throat hit is what makes vaping FEEL like a cigarette. So you are getting TH with 100% VG?

Yes, tons and tons. More then I'm used to. It made me cough a bit at first.

After watching a ton of Odysseus coil videos I think there are a lot variables to the coils. If you wind them too tightly for instance it doesn't perform as well(I believe no juice wicks to the middle coils if the outside is too tight). Most people are using a straightened paper clip against the wick and then wrapping the coil around that and removing the paper clip. This is what I did and the performance seems really good so I'll stick with it.

 

[Killjoy1]

One tip with the paper clip method is to give your coil a gentle twist after removing the paper clip. Sometimes the paper clip can leave parts of the coil too far from the wick, so a gentle twist to tighten it up just a hair is helpful in this case

I'm with ya on the higher ohm coils, too. While I can find an LR coil at 3.7 to be satisfying, I like the flavor better from a 3 ohm or so coil at 4.5-5.0 volts. With my Ody so far, though, it's tasted awesome no matter what combination I've used and I'm hoping for similar results from Pene. Got my Penelope built up with the pre-made wire at 1.7 ohms and filled with some Boba's right now and will be giving it a try as soon as my UFS is empty (down to the last bit of juice, now)

 

[RiverNut]

Someone else was telling me this also but I got 100% VG by accident one time and it was like breathing air to me. I guess I'll have to give another try. And I'm still on my first coil from a week ago so I have yet to experiment with my coil making. I have also heard that VG gives purer flavor. Have you found this to be the case?

 

[comptechltd]

Guys,

As a new Penelope owner (It's in the mail) and my first RBA, this thread is very awsome and consice!! Great info. Thanks a bunch.

Steve

 

[RiverNut]

Guys,

As a new Penelope owner (It's in the mail) and my first RBA, this thread is very awsome and consice!! Great info. Thanks a bunch.

Steve

There's lots of support here at the COV and GG subforums if you need it. The rebuildables have a slight learning curve but not bad at all. And the satisfaction you get is awesome. Juice flow control is everything! Well, except for air control, which you will be able to have when the proteus comes out if you choose.

 

[Ezkill]

Hmmmmm I had a strange problem last night, if anyone has any insight please let me know.

So my atomizer ohms started jumping all over the place and the atomizer was reading as being 2.6ohms, which was weird because it was the original coil that I created at 1.7. I'm almost out of juice so I decide to take it apart and the problem starts.

I got a few turns on the ceramic cup in the base and it just jams. I couldn't tighten or loosen it. I mean it just wasn't going to move at all. Ended up grabbing a pair of small rubberized clamps and clamping the base and finally turning the ceramic. I lost a lot of skin on a finger but the Penelope suffered no damage. So basically I have no idea why the base jammed like that but it did. What I did notice was that the nut that holds the wire against the post was almost totally unscrewed but I believe that's because when you unscrew the ceramic cup the pressure on the washer at the bottom of the post also unscrews that small nut.

I just can't figure out why it was so jammed and I'd like to avoid it again because I quite honestly wasn't sure I'd ever be able to open it. I can't recreate the problem with no wick or wire installed so I can only think that the wick or wire caused it somehow. There is 0 thread damage, it was not cross threaded.

 

[Bishopheals]

U must of tighten that thing and didnt hear Poor Penelope scream. That was my first mistake. After I washed it out to change juice I kept it tight but not to tight so i wont have issues un screwing it. Also I added Vaseline to the center piece's O ring. Make sure the threads are cleaned well and no junk is in it.

 

[Ezkill]

No it's a different issue, I didn't explain it very well at all.

I managed to get the ceramic cup holder about half way out of the base before it jammed completely. Everything was good until I got a few full turns on it and then jammed completely.

 

[Bishopheals]

No it's a different issue, I didn't explain it very well at all.

I managed to get the ceramic cup holder about half way out of the base before it jammed completely. Everything was good until I got a few full turns on it and then jammed completely.

Are you talking about the metal that houses the ceramic cup? The threads may be dirty, you may need to screw and unscrew back and froth to get it to go. I hope the thread isn't damaged. use a hand towel to hold the metal threads as you turn it.