petition needs your signature

[beckdg]

I agree with a lot of what you said except how your first sentence came off. To be honest, my reply, if i were a mech user, would have been the same but I hope that I would have seen how abrasive it sounded and would have toned it down. You know damned well Mattiem's been around long enough and has generously given her time to helping all vapers in an effort to help them all keep off cigarettes.

Yes ma'am. You're right.

It's no excuse, but I grew up in a hostile environment due to one of my siblings.

I believe that has a lot to do with it.

Sometimes I just don't know what words to choose to get my point across without seeming so abrasive.

It's a character flaw.

I'm truly sorry for it.

But I don't mean it that way.

In person it's normally easy to tell.

In text, there's no way around it.

I may never overcome it.
Not for lack of trying, though.

Then along comes "other stuff." If you haven't noticed, it's booming.

They need to make that legal across the board and stop cherry picking the situations in which it carries a penalty.

Decriminalizing at the state level is nothing but a false sense of security and leaves the people who use it as easy pickings with targets on their backs.

Mechs get banned, there will quickly be a workaround.

I don't think for me there will be. Low wattage users? There's already plenty of gear that complies to choose from.

The problem isn't with people like you or Les, it's with the uneducated or the big-man-on-campus types. They are the problem. How do we get rid of them?

Education.

I would be okay with a mandate for an educational course outline that results in a certificate that can be held in a federal database or can be held on a laminated card in your wallet like a license.

Totally off topic, how is the spring time driving? The wildflowers here are outstanding this year. The flooding will be too soon. Safe travels my friend.

Much better than climbing mountains in the snow to get to salt Lake City, Denver, etc.

Do not be sorry to post your thoughts. It takes all kinds to make the world go around and I see, and agree, with the merits of your post. What I've gathered, and I'm sure you have to, is that the majority of the "failures" have come from people putting unprotected batteries into their pockets with other metal like coins or keys.

Is it just me or do others see a move away from "exploding ecigarettes" to phones and other devices?

Do not sell yourself short in the smarts department. I get the not wanting to debate part. Really, I do, but don't give up on posting your opinions, they rock even if I don't agree with with them say, less than %1 of the time. Who am I to say you are wrong? I may disagree with you, can't ever remember thinking you're wrong, but please don't ever stop posting your thoughts because the vast majority of us value them immensely. Never give up.

Every word - agreed.

Mattiem is a very valued member of this forum.

Tapatyped

 

[DavidOck]

60,680

In person it's normally easy to tell.

In text, there's no way around it.

Yes, always a problem when there are no facial/body language cues to go along. Subtleties, irony, sarcasm, not always the right emoji to add, where in person a smile or wink would fill in the blanks.

 

[mattiem]

Thank you all for the kind words. you all.

 

[Lessifer]

60,679

I can agree with all that though I'll get to mechs later.

If I didn't say it before, I can't bring up PDFs on this computer. Even if I could, its been a hell of a week and most of the info wouldn't have sunk in anyway. I've also dropped so far out of the premade juice market, not sure how many years it's been since I ordered any, that I'm completely out of touch with it but adopting AEMSA standards seems a competent way to go considering the past history of some juice companies. God knows what the lesser ones are doing.

BTW, I saw you get the snot beat out of you on ECF in a thread or two today. Way to go! It's getting kinda boring always agreeing with you, would you mind ramping it up a little?



I agree with a lot of what you said except how your first sentence came off. To be honest, my reply, if i were a mech user, would have been the same but I hope that I would have seen how abrasive it sounded and would have toned it down. You know damned well Mattiem's been around long enough and has generously given her time to helping all vapers in an effort to help them all keep off cigarettes.

I agree completely that regulations rarely improve. Then along comes "other stuff." If you haven't noticed, it's booming. Good news for little critters living on the northern side of the US/Mexican boarder as they're less likely to get smushed by catapulted bales of the stuff flung over the wall.

Look, what's driven vaping is innovation by users. We wouldn't be here today if it weren't for people like them or @Oliver. Mechs get banned, there will quickly be a workaround. At least I hope so. The problem isn't with people like you or Les, it's with the uneducated or the big-man-on-campus types. They are the problem. How do we get rid of them?

Totally off topic, how is the spring time driving? The wildflowers here are outstanding this year. The flooding will be too soon. Safe travels my friend.



Do not be sorry to post your thoughts. It takes all kinds to make the world go around and I see, and agree, with the merits of your post. What I've gathered, and I'm sure you have to, is that the majority of the "failures" have come from people putting unprotected batteries into their pockets with other metal like coins or keys.

Is it just me or do others see a move away from "exploding ecigarettes" to phones and other devices?

Do not sell yourself short in the smarts department. I get the not wanting to debate part. Really, I do, but don't give up on posting your opinions, they rock even if I don't agree with with them say, less than %1 of the time. Who am I to say you are wrong? I may disagree with you, can't ever remember thinking you're wrong, but please don't ever stop posting your thoughts because the vast majority of us value them immensely. Never give up.

Hey now, I hold my own

I've seen that particular thread devolve into dem/liberal bashing multiple times. I know that I have no problem arguing back, but I also know that there are other members who will just start ignoring the thread so as to avoid a fight, and there actually IS something worth discussing regarding the deeming regs right now.

@beckdg do you really think requiring a license to buy something that anyone could cobble together with items from around the house is really going to work? I don't agree with that provision, and think it will likely promote a thriving grey/black market anyway.

The big problem, for me, is that most if not all of the restrictions, either in the bill or in AEMSA's standards, still don't really have much basis in regards to actual harm potential. It's not the mechs that are the problem, it's people mistreating batteries. There's no evidence of WTA being harmful or addictive. And so on.

I do think, however, that we're at a point where might want to accept this, even with its flaws, to avoid the sledgehammer of the deemings, and then we can work for something even better later.

 

[beckdg]

@beckdg do you really think requiring a license to buy something that anyone could cobble together with items from around the house is really going to work? I don't agree with that provision, and think it will likely promote a thriving grey/black market anyway.

As opposed to the black market we'll have with the deeming and/or this proposal where the gear will likely be gone?

Surely you're not serious in that regard.

Or maybe that wasn't on your mind during that post.

As far as someone capable of cobbling a mech together... of they are successful, they probably don't need half or any of the otherwise necessary education.

Remember... we're talking gooberment, not Darwin.

(For lack of better description)

Pandering to and writing for the lowest common denominator.

Those that can get around it and desire to always will.

Tapatyped

 

[Lessifer]

As opposed to the black market we'll have with the deeming and/or this proposal where the gear will likely be gone?

Surely you're not serious in that regard.

Or maybe that wasn't on your mind during that post.

As far as someone capable of cobbling a mech together... of they are successful, they probably don't need half or any of the otherwise necessary education.

Remember... we're talking gooberment, not Darwin.

(For lack of better description)

Pandering to and writing for the lowest common denominator.

Those that can get around it and desire to always will.

Tapatyped

I meant there will likely be a black market either way. Ban mechs, or require a license to buy one, people will just 3D print one, etc.

 

[beckdg]

I meant there will likely be a black market either way. Ban mechs, or require a license to buy one, people will just 3D print one, etc.

Yes.

But with my idea, honest people will get the education regardless.

And they'll help spread it.



Tapatyped

 

[SteveS45]

Anybody bothering to check today?

60,681 supporters

 

[mattiem]

Anybody bothering to check today?

60,681 supporters

you are

 

[Tomasius74]

I've read the legislation proposal and even though I might not understand everything it seems to be far better option that the Derming Rule and even the TPD in EU

But you guys are right, it seems that mechs are being banned. It seems that the rule does not require short circuit prevention but safety features if a short circuit should happen.

It is true that safety mechanisms could consist in proper venting and maybe battery orientation (positive side pointing away from face) but those are user safety features and the rule demands also battery safety (I guess in order to prevent a thermal runaway)

It is also true that the whole proposal refers only to electronic devices and that could help mechs as they are not. An because they don't have electronics are also not subject to the rest of the law requirements as serial number and recall tracking info

I don't see that a mandatory course or a personal certification are adequate BUT mechs can be allowed if their packaging and their publicity have warnings like that the product is intended for advanced users, or that user must be proficient in coil building and have electricity knowledge. Maybe shops can be fined if they sell a mech to someone if they have knowledge that such customer does not have experience?

What I liked about this law is that it separates the concept of tobacco smoking from vaping and in time the stigmatization of vapor products can come to an end.

Another thing that Big Tobbacco won't like is that this law does not include their new tobacco vaporizers[emoji16] which will be treated as they are: tobacco products

One thing I did not understand is that if this law gives FDA power to establish more restrictions in vaping gear in order to be certified, for instance to be a closed system?



Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

 

[Lessifer]

Anybody bothering to check today?

60,681 supporters

Nope, I'm at six flags discovery kingdom

 

[SteveS45]

you are

You are usually on top of it! And posting a cute animal picture to go along with them!

 

[mattiem]

You are usually on top of it! And posting a cute animal picture to go along with them!

Guess I am just hanging out today being kinda lazy .....

 

[DavidOck]

60,683

What I liked about this law is that it separates the concept of tobacco smoking from vaping and in time the stigmatization of vapor products can come to an end.

Yes, exactly what Les' petition has always been about

 

[mattiem]

Nope, I'm at six flags discovery kingdom

And I hope you had a wonderful day

 

[Lessifer]

And I hope you had a wonderful day

Thanks! We did

We had forgotten it was there, about an hour away. The little one isn't big enough for the roller coasters yet, but she got to see real live dolphins, and a bald eagle and a bunch of other animals, and to ride some of the kid friendly rides.

 

[mattiem]

60,685

kid friendly ride

 

[DavidOck]

60,687

 

[Robino1]

I'll admit I may not understand all of it. At first glance mechs might be out, but I foresee a robust grey market for 510 flashlights as not being a problem. For liquid it basically says that liquid manufacturers will have to adhere to AEMSA standards, but those can be changed and then reviewed by the HHS secretary. No sales or marketing to anyone under the age of 18.

All in all it's reasonable regulations without the stigma of tobacco product and everything that goes with it.

Fingers and toes crossed

Let's hope that it does pass so that we may continue to fight without fear of losing vaping completely.

Do not sell yourself short in the smarts department. I get the not wanting to debate part. Really, I do, but don't give up on posting your opinions, they rock even if I don't agree with with them say, less than %1 of the time. Who am I to say you are wrong? I may disagree with you, can't ever remember thinking you're wrong, but please don't ever stop posting your thoughts because the vast majority of us value them immensely. Never give up.

Agreed!

Mattiem is a very valued member of this forum.

Absolutely!!!!!

 

[mattiem]

Let's hope that it does pass so that we may continue to fight without fear of losing vaping completely.



Agreed!


Absolutely!!!!!

60,698 supporters

Thank you sweetie