Plastic Bottles & E-Liquid

Discussion in 'General E-Liquid Discussion' started by mwa102464, May 13, 2012.

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  1. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru

    I'm not happy any longer with what I'm seeing when I look at the plastic bottles that vendors are using to send us our juice in. When I look into an empty 15ml-30ml plastic bottle the inside looks like it has been melted. This isn't with just one vendor or one juice but with pretty much all of them, accept the ones who are using glass or the harder PTE plastic bottles The used bottle when I look at it just isnt the same as a new bottle, it looks like it is lightly melting on the inside. This means the plastic is leaching into the juice. I think we need to take a closer look at this and switch the bottles where using ASAP and either go to Glass or the harder PTE Bottles they sell, these softer LDPE & HDPE bottles which I think is what there using are just not cutting it any longer. I've been transferring everything I get to glass bottles right away especially all of my nic and pretty much anything I can, but when it comes to buying juice and seeing the inside of the bottle and it leached into my juice this isn't making me to happy and I'm not gonna keep quite about this any longer. Juice suppliers should step up and start using glass to send us our juice in, there making enough profit to do so. If I cant buy this way or in a safer bottle that doesn't leach I'm simply gonna stop buying from that supplier any longer. I think many of the vapors out there should look at there plastic bottles and think about this and what it could do long term vaping juice that has plastic leached into it.
     
  2. Vchick

    Vchick PIF Moderator Verified Member

    Matt, I've got a number of bottles that I re-use and what I do see in some of mine is some etching of the bottle from the juice. Some flavorings as well as koolada, citric will do this. Have you been able to cut open one of these and see a noticiable melting, thinning or gumminess of the walls of the bottle compared to a new one?

    I also recently saw a post where juice or possible flavoring had melted some end caps of a tank, we also know that some of these juices/flavors are some of the same culprits when it comes to tank cracking, so I see where this may be a more more likely reason.

    Just throwing it out there. I don't have all the answers and maybe on the straight nic this may be something to consider, but I don't see a need for panic just yet.
     
  3. water4choc

    water4choc Super Member Verified Member

    I buy all my juice from Virgin Vapor. They only use glass bottles and their juice is organic!
     
  4. AlmightyGod

    AlmightyGod My friends call me A.G. Verified Member

    Supporting member
    Glass bottles may add to the cost, but so what?

    Glass should be the standard. :2c:
     
  5. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru

    Vchick,,, I see multiple issues with this, and I do see reason to panic, you don't know the long term effect that vaping this plastic can lead to. no matter what is doing this Cinnamon, citric acids, other additives, the plastic is leaching into the juice, I wouldn't keep any of my juice in these plastic bottles if you paid me to do so, Every thing I have goes into glass and has for some time now. These vendors can well afford to use glass bottles for us, and if there not it's simple I'm not giving them my business, and there are many of vendors that know about this and there using Glass bottles and it's a first class act all the way.

    I realize its an individual thing, and some may not care what there juice comes in or what happens to it in the plastic bottle but I really do care about mine and I'm putting my opinion of this out in the open now so others can make an informed and education choice as well about the plastic bottles and what comes along with them in there juice. The juices also seem to hold and keep there flavor better in the glass and taste better to me then in plastic as well besides the safety factors..
     
  6. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru

    +++1000000 on that AG, if people want to chose to put there juice in a plastic bottle after they get it then that should be up to them, but vendors should really smarten up and use glass, I agree fully it should be a standard, and is with some of the more 1st class acts out there.
     
  7. Vchick

    Vchick PIF Moderator Verified Member

    I understand your concern, but again what proof do you have that they are leaching into the juice? Having you cut open one of these bottles and compared it to a new unused bottle?

    What are you using in your reos?
     
  8. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru

    Yes, I have cut them open, but in reality you dont even have to just look at the soft plastic bottle after using it for a while, you can see it very easily,,it looks all roughed up on the inside and scratched, but this is a chemical reaction not a scratch, if you cut it open and even wash it, it still has the same melted look inside Vchick compared to a new one. In my Reo's I have the harder PTE bottles these seem much better and dont show any signs of the melting, though they may still be I'm not sure but doesnt seem so, but a bit tougher to squank. Also using the harder PTE 6ml- 10ml bottles on my vapemate hooked up to my Darwins.

    Glass should be a Standard with juice sales, just my personal opinion, I think many others would like to see this as well.
     
  9. dreezy562

    dreezy562 Senior Member Verified Member

    Halo and virgin vapor use glass and thats all i ever order from.
     
  10. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru

    Like I said dreezy562, many of the 1st class operations use glass, I will only buy from vendors that use the glass as well, there are some good ones out there too, I mostly DIY everything these days, All my NIC is also stored in either the Brown or Cobalt Blue glass bottle and right in the freezer it goes, that's a different story and thread though. :)
     
  11. AlmightyGod

    AlmightyGod My friends call me A.G. Verified Member

    Supporting member
    I was keeping my plastic bottles in a shoebox. Out of the light & in a cool place. I went to get a flavor that I hadn't vaped in 6 months & it was terrible. I pulled out a few more & they were the same. Not only does the liquid eat the plastic, but it's not effective at containing the flavoring. I tossed out almost 300ml of skunked liquids. I won't be storing my bottles in an enclosed container again.

    I know it's a dream, but I really would like to see a switch to the blue or amber bottles. Halo, Vermillion River, & Virgin are in front of the pack on this. More need to follow.
     
  12. Traver

    Traver Ultra Member

    Supporting member
    It would be great to get a list of vendors that use glass.
     
  13. Vchick

    Vchick PIF Moderator Verified Member

    Imho it is the juice/flavorings etching the bottles, just as some have done to the tanks and caps, but it would seem that more info is needed to determine, as from your statement you are not certain.
     
  14. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru

    Vchick,,, I hate to have to disagree with you, but not even close,,, it's leaching,,, what do you mean etch ? if the plastic is moving in anyway this means the liquid is eating at the plastic,,, plus the flavor alone is a huge factor, you can clearly taste the difference of a liquid stored in a plastic bottle for a month compared to one stored in glass. The one in the glass is still crisp and taste great, the one in the plastic bottle taste either yucky a bit off, or even a little plastic-ee.... just from my own experience, but I think AG has backed this up a couple of post below.

    Glass should be the Standard, and anything but I will No longer buy from that vendor, period
     
  15. Vchick

    Vchick PIF Moderator Verified Member

    Leaching is when the bottle breaks down and contaminates the contents, etching is when the juice/flavors are breaking down and in turn etching the container, be it a bottle or a tank, or in some cases the clear ce2 cartomizers.

    Plastics in general including PET do allow more oxygen than glass, you also find shorter shelf life, losing freshness more quickly and yes I would imagine that the flavor would be off as well.

    AG stated 6 months and he found the flavor was off, which would stand to reason. This why you'll not find many if any wines packaged in anything other than glass for that reason alone. I would say if you store anything for any length of time (stockpiling) that yes glass would be a good solution.
     
  16. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru

    Vchick, the bottles I am talking about and what is happening happens with in days of getting it as well,,not just 6 months or long term storage, any movement of the plastic on the inside of the bottle tells me it is breaking down the plastic, which also tells me it is leaching, if you can taste it in the juice especially. I'm gonna yield to my opinion on this, if my juice is tasting different with in days I'm not using plastic, For ANYTHING I vape period. I taste it, I see it on the inside of the bottle, I'm convinced. I would like to hear some others opinions on this also and what there feelings are and see if they see what I'm talking about, I cant be the only one that see's this, just want some more opinions. There is a reason that certain juice companies are using glass bottles, they know whats happening with these cheap plastic bottles. The companies that are using plastic can keep using it and argue this point all they want, but movement of the plastic inside the bottle doesn't lie, I dont call this etching I call this chemical break down of the plastic, and that means certain things are happening besides this etching you speak of in my opinion.

    I would like to hear from Kurt one of our ECF chemist on this, or any other chemist out there that see this as well. I'm not qualified to some up whats happening the way a chemist would be, I just know what I see, and what I taste, and Glass vs Plastic I'm choosing Glass every time myself.
     
  17. AlmightyGod

    AlmightyGod My friends call me A.G. Verified Member

    Supporting member
    The flavor wasn't just off, they all had the same ick flavor. I've steeped plenty of liquids for months & not had this happen until I started storing them in a sealed box. Either way. The liquid was skunked. The only ones that weren't were the Halo & Vermilliion River.

    Leeching/etching: Potato/Potatoe. ;)

    I'm actually surprised others haven't chimed in here. :confused:
     
  18. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru

    AG, I'm very surprised as well others haven't chimed in as well,, I sent a PM to Kurt, I'm curious to hear him voice his opinion on this very much, and hope he will, as well as some other people that are chemist or have an in depth knowledge of plastics and chemical reactions with them.
     
  19. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member

    Supporting member
    I do find it interesting that most vapers know not to use plastic drip tips or plastic tanks when using cinnamon, but the juice comes and stays in a plastic container. Most of the hardware that cinnamon damages is a lot thicker than the thin plastic of the bottles. I have looked into getting small aroma therapy bottles with the eye dropper for my cinnamon flavors and eventually for all. I definitely agree with this thread's stated case. There is no cost increase that can outweigh potential health benefits!

    Good topic.
     
  20. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member

    Supporting member
    Can you tell me of a good place that is not China to buy these glass bottles from. Maybe I am misguided, but I would rather not have anything directly shipped from China. Any help on resources to check out would be appreciated!
     
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