Preliminary results from Dr. Eissenberg's study (Yep, e-cigs deliver nicotine)

[kristin]

I still would like to know why, when all of the concern about e-cigarettes is safety, that people who have questioned safety based on the lack of evidence and they have the resources to test for safety, why are they doing studies on nicotine delivery? His study won't even answer the effectiveness as a cessation question - only if e-cigarettes deliver nicotine in substantial quantity.

If you are publically opposed to the sale of a product because of doubts over efficacy and safety as a cessation product, why are you only testing for nicotine delivery?? Same goes for Pru Talbot and her study of leaky cartridges.

 

[Traver]

I don't know why they are doing these studies however Professor Tom Eissenberg's does give us important information. In his first study of smokers instead of vapors like us showed negligible nicotine absorption. In his preliminary report on his second study with experienced vapors using their own equipment showed blood levels on nicotine at 10 to 30 ng/ml. Thats comparable to cigarette smokers. In many of my postings I have claimed that the quit rates for those who get help and support from forums like this goes up dramatically. Now I have evidence I can quote.

It also tells us that Jonathan Foulds is at least open minded enough to be influenced by the evidence.

Below is a quote from his article:
Some may be concerned that e-cigs are capable of delivering meaningful amounts of nicotine relatively quickly, but to me this raises the possibility (as many users have already claimed) that these devices may really help smokers to quit.

It also seems that he can be influenced by our responses.

 

[ctourtelot]

I'm scheduled to go in for the study Thursday morning. They do really seem to be very accomodating. I asked for a particular flavor from V4L in 18mg and they called me back shortly thereafter to say it was out of stock and waited on the phone for me to choose another flavor that I wanted to use.

They do ask a lot of qualifying questions, so I don't think their low participant numbers are due to lack of interest. Just not everyone qualifies. I'd been handing out flyers for the study back in November where I used to work. It seems quite a few people are put off by not only having to not vape for 12 hrs and not have any caffeine or anything for an hour before, but also that they have to use some commercial prefilled cartomizer. I'm using a Tornado myself, but I'm taking an adapter to use the V4L carts they've ordered for me as well as a couple old KR808 batts just in case.

 

[Placebo Effect]

Very cool ctourtelot. Bring along something to entertain yourself that doesn't require the internet. You'll need it.

 

[Rosco]

Very cool ctourtelot. Bring along something to entertain yourself that doesn't require the internet. You'll need it.

A perfect time for that good book
Best of luck ctourtelot.

 

[Vocalek]

A perfect time for that good book
Best of luck ctourtelot.

Or that knitting project you've been putting off....

Just kidding.

Your Nintendo DS?

An old copy of Tetris?

 

[ctourtelot]

LOL thanks for the suggestions. I'll be brining my laptop, regardless of internet connection. I have DVD's and year end accounting work to catch up on. Without having access to this forum, I might just get something accomplished

 

[ctourtelot]

I just returned from my participation in the study. It went really well. They are really nice people and seem genuinely interested in what they are doing. We talked about the first study that was done and they admitted they went about it all wrong lol.

The nurse told me how much she'd learned already from the particpants, but they need more people.

If you are anywhere in the Richmond, VA area or within driving distance PLEASE call to see if you qualify. It's 5 hours and you get paid $200 cash at the end.

Here is the info again

Do you use electronic cigarettes?

Men and women who use electronic cigarettes daily and are between the ages of 18-55 are needed to participate in a laboratory study that requires one, 5-hour laboratory visit.

Participants will be compensated

Call (804) 827-3562
Monday - Friday
9 AM - 4 PM

for more information about this and other studies for tobacco users

The study will be conducted in McGuire Hall on VCU's Medical Campus.
Principal Investigator: Thomas Eissenberg, Ph.D.
Professor, Department of Psychology

I found the results somewhat fascinating. I keep seeing all these people talking about how nicotine raises your blood pressure, heart rate, etc, but the machine constantly monitored my blood pressure, pulse and oxygen and my blood pressure was actually lower by the end of the study (than after 12 hrs with no nicotine). My heart rate remained normal whether vaping or not and my oxygen level remained high in my blood throughout.

It'll be interesting to see what their final results show, but in order for this study to really have some clout, they need people so STEP UP!

LOL

Happy Vaping all

 

[D103]

ctoutelot - thanks for the post. That info re: your blood press., heart rate and oxygen level are very interesting and seem to bode well for vaping. I hope this study gets the participation it needs and more importantly the adequate press coverage once it is concluded.

 

[Rosco]

I just returned from my participation in the study. It went really well. They are really nice people and seem genuinely interested in what they are doing. We talked about the first study that was done and they admitted they went about it all wrong lol.

The nurse told me how much she'd learned already from the particpants, but they need more people.

If you are anywhere in the Richmond, VA area or within driving distance PLEASE call to see if you qualify. It's 5 hours and you get paid $200 cash at the end.

Here is the info again

Do you use electronic cigarettes?

Men and women who use electronic cigarettes daily and are between the ages of 18-55 are needed to participate in a laboratory study that requires one, 5-hour laboratory visit.

Participants will be compensated

Call (804) 827-3562
Monday - Friday
9 AM - 4 PM

for more information about this and other studies for tobacco users

The study will be conducted in McGuire Hall on VCU's Medical Campus.
Principal Investigator: Thomas Eissenberg, Ph.D.
Professor, Department of Psychology

I found the results somewhat fascinating. I keep seeing all these people talking about how nicotine raises your blood pressure, heart rate, etc, but the machine constantly monitored my blood pressure, pulse and oxygen and my blood pressure was actually lower by the end of the study (than after 12 hrs with no nicotine). My heart rate remained normal whether vaping or not and my oxygen level remained high in my blood throughout.

It'll be interesting to see what their final results show, but in order for this study to really have some clout, they need people so STEP UP!

LOL

Happy Vaping all

Out..Vaping...Standing!
Wish I lived closer. I'd be there in a heart beat. Congrats on getting a chance to enlighten this group.

 

[Valsacar]

When does the study end? I might be in the area in a couple months.

 

[ctourtelot]

I'm not sure how long they'll be doing it. It can't hurt to call though

 

[rolygate]

People have criticised Dr E's general attitude, but I think that is being a little unfair. Certainly, his first study was perhaps a little untutored in some respects, but a willingness was shown to adapt to more information being available, and that the research parameters could be changed as a result.

We should perhaps consider him as a conservative who is open-minded enough to look at all possibilities. After all, there is no proof that e-cigarettes are safe, and there is not likely to be either, in the next twenty years or possibly longer. It would require a long-term study of perhaps fifteen years minimum, with 100+ subjects who had never smoked a tobacco cigarette before starting e-cigarette use (otherwise the data will be contaminated).

How likely is this to happen, do you think?

So as far as the medical profession in general are concerned, e-cigarettes are an unknown and likely to stay that way for some time. Even members of the profession who state in public that there just might be something to this new invention are probably regarded as dangerous progressives by the rest. As more becomes known, attitudes will change, but progress comes slow in medicine. Anyone out on the bleeding edge deserves all the help they can get.

 

[Rosco]

You are so correct rolygate.
Your last line....."Anyone out on the bleeding edge deserves all the help they can get."

I for one am more than willing to give those any and all breaks and chances to show everyone the reality of truth.

 

[Traver]

I had the impression that he realized his first study had flaws and he was willing to do it over with more experienced vapors. To me that shows an open mind.

 

[ctourtelot]

I believe that's the purpose of this second study. I talked to the nurse quite a bit about vapers' reactions over the first study. She told me that one really great thing about the doctor was that he listened to what we had to say and that his studies are based on curiosity about the e-cigs rather than trying to find some sort of proof that they are harmful/ineffective.

She was really grateful of all the information they'd gotten from the experienced users.

I had a good time doing the study. I hope more people get in there for it.

 

[rolygate]

I did criticise the first report, and I believe that was justified. But things are looking up.

Even so, the results of the second trial may not be favourable to us; though whatever results are eventually published, the researcher has every right to print them if they are obtained in a justifiable way. At least he did the research - which is more than others who comment have done.

Many people have asked why 'somebody' doesn't do research on e-cigarettes. The main reason is that a proper trial is extremely expensive and that money has to come from somewhere. The cheapest trial we have heard of is the NVC's IVAQS vapor ingredients research, and that will cost $75k (or more). And that's just one researcher, using lab equipment, with no human subjects.

There has to be a good reason to obtain funding, and those researchers who do get funding have probably expended more energy to obtain it than they will in the actual trial. It's something to applaud when a trial actually gets going.

Also, there are reports that the FDA has pressured researchers to drop it, when they got wind of upcoming research. There is also a strong anti-smoking lobby in the medical establishment, or the academic fringe at any rate, and that sentiment extends to anything connected with smoking that might actually help smokers. So when someone manages to get a trial moving along, it is no small achievement.

 

[Placebo Effect]

I did criticise the first report, and I believe that was justified. But things are looking up.

Even so, the results of the second trial may not be favourable to us; though whatever results are eventually published, the researcher has every right to print them if they are obtained in a justifiable way. At least he did the research - which is more than others who comment have done.

Inevitably, the spin put on this study by the alphabet groups (but hopefully not Dr. E) will be that because e-cigarettes can deliver nicotine to a user in a similar fashion as cigarettes, that they are dangerous and, as a result, present an even larger threat to children than "nicotine candy" products from Big Tobacco that all likely deliver NRT-like doses of nicotine. Additionally, they're sure to use variability in nicotine delivery from the approximately 10 different e-cigs used in the study as a justification for not embracing the product, as I've heard the same complaint from numerous people in tobacco control several times.

As we all know, they won't be happy until a pharmaceutical company is producing e-cigs in one model that delivers small amounts of nicotine in controlled doses that gradually lessen over a specific period of time.

 

[ctourtelot]

I'm not sure what all he's taking into consideration, but when I signed up they asked me what model I'd be using, how many ml/day I vaped on average and what strength. I had them order 18mg cartos for the test and used my 1000mah tornado for the study. They took pictures of my e-cig and kept the carto I'd used for weighing. Throughout the testing they took blood for testing and constantly monitored my vitals. I also had to take a survey 2 or 3 times after vaping, after not vaping..etc. It asked basic questions about how I was feeling, how much I was craving an e-cig, if I was dizzy etc.

It'll be interesting to see but it seems to me like they study won't be as generalized and the results will have to be respective to the strength of the cartomizer. There is also a period of time where they let you vape at your leisure while they record every time you take a hit and for how long.

There will be a lot of variables to be considered I think. I did find it interesting though that my blood pressure and heart rate were higher after not vaping for 12 hrs compared to after my free vape period and my heart rate pretty much remained between 70 and 80 bpm throughout the test.

 

[Rosco]

Dang.....at $40 an hour .....I could vape into another tax bracket.