Preparing For "Civil Disobedience".

[Scott2Quit]

I know that there's a lot of advocacy and campaigning going on. As someone who has a lot of experience working with big-pharma, supplement companies and dealing with the FDA I just want to say keep fighting, but don't hold your breath.

The FDA doesn't exist to protect you. They don't care about your health, and they certainly don't care about petitions or what people think. They exist solely to protect the interest of the monopolies in the establishment. Big-pharma. Agriculture. They want to control what you can put into your body and who you can pay to get it from. That's where their interest ends.

My goal here isn't to convince those who may hold any illusions to the contrary to believe me. I won't go into my personal experiences or argue about it - but a good example is a movie I just watched called "Dallas Buyers Club" - pretty good flick and a somewhat accurate (although watered down) account of just how evil the FDA is.

Politics aside - I personally refuse to obey any future legislation telling me that I can't vape. They would effectively be murdering millions of smokers who vaping could save. My right to life is more important to me than their right to extortion.

I won't comply.

I won't tell others what to do, but I think it's best to be prepared if you wish to continue vaping after any laws are passed.

My hope with this thread is to take control away from them and put it into the hands of the people. I haven't done the research (and I may not have the time) - so I'm asking for help.

I'm sure the info is already widely available on this forum. I think it'd be great to have a central resource for 100% "open-source" vaping. If you have any links or insights to share myself and I'm sure plenty of others would appreciate information on...

-DIY PV's.
-DIY Tanks, atties, etc.
-DIY juices (flavor extracts, etc if current vendors get shut down).
-DIY nicotine extract (I think liquid nicotine would be an easy target for them).
-Other general advice and insights.

What are you doing to prepare? Any links/insights are greatly appreciated - and I'll do my best to contribute as I read up on it further.

 

[DC2]

What are you doing to prepare?

I have 10 years worth of nicotine in the freezer.

As for the rest of your post, I believe that it may in fact come down to organized civil disobedience at some point.
I hope I am wrong. But if I'm right then I hope there are enough of us willing to do what needs doing.

 

[schuff]

All you would really need is a cache of nicotine and a rebuildable atomizer. Food flavoring, PG, VG and the printed circuit boards will not be banned because of their uses in other products. So if you can DIY for the liquid and build / find someone to build a mod then your golden. I don't see it going that way though. I more likely see nicotine becoming a controlled substance that is either controlled by big pharma or big tobacco. Then they can tax that to make vaping just as profitable for the govt as smoking is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aikanae1]

You'll find a number of threads over the years on ECF with this topic. I think that's one of the reasons mechanicals and rba's are so popular. People can maintain them. Anyone around in 2009 probably remembers when the FDA confiscated everything coming in from China without warning. They claimed they were unapproved medical devices, then lost in court. Folks have been stockpiling since then. There's lots of ideas posted if you do a search.

And Dallas Buyers Club was an excellent movie.

​

 

[dspin]

I have 10 years worth of nicotine in the freezer.

As for the rest of your post, I believe that it may in fact come down to organized civil disobedience at some point.
I hope I am wrong. But if I'm right then I hope there are enough of us willing to do what needs doing.

I hope your wrong too, but the people today dont have the fortitude of our forefathers. Most only worry about who is playing football or baseball on Sunday. 90 percent are all scaredy babies. Our country is allready lost and everyone being taken down the garden path. They vote away their rights and rights of others, give in to taxation without representation and half the population wants guns removed from people - the fools. Cameras everywhere, government spying and still the people dont scream.

 

[JasonV]

For those worried about "big tobacco" taking over because of political influence (I still haven't seen a cigarette commercial in the 2000s) they are GETTING INTO the e-cig business, some more deeply than others. So why would they be for regulation just as they are putting their towel in the ring? That is EXTREMELY poor business practices and since smoking/vaping is considered a nichè market, it would make it harder for them to recoup money lost from buying companies to shut down. This isn't WalMart vs Mom & Pop stores, its more like Hobby Lobby v Michaels.
Edit: As far as "doing what needs to be done", this isn't pre-revolutionary days. Let's tone down the Rebel talk, and be realistic. There are a lot more pressing matters in politics that our focus should be on than vaping. Like getting "No Child Left Behind" (or as I like to call it, Every Child Left Behind) off the books, my childs education, or lack of, is a lot more important than my ability to vape.

 

[cmknight]

Why would BT be FOR regulation? Because, when all is said and done with, their "cigalikes" will be ok, because everyone will KNOW it's an e-cig (and easier to kick the person using it to the curb), but our Vamo's and MVP's and Spinners, and tanks and carto's and Vivi Nova's, along with juices, will all be banned because ... we don't know what's in them, and we can't keep them away from the chil'uns, and we may be using them for other "stuff" ... we just don't know.

Just my worth.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

Edit: Apologies, not the proper forum.

 

[patkin]

The first thing to do as far as any organizing goes is to start a web site because I doubt this forum would allow discussion about what would then be illegal. I would hope the forum wouldn't shut down altogether but I don't know what we could even talk about then.... all past posts would have to be deleted so what's the point? They would then fall in the category of the unmentionable substances. I guess it would depend on how far the FDA goes... what they would deem illegal.

 

[Anjaffm]

I have 10 years worth of nicotine in the freezer.

As for the rest of your post, I believe that it may in fact come down to organized civil disobedience at some point.
I hope I am wrong. But if I'm right then I hope there are enough of us willing to do what needs doing.

Same here. I am in Europe, and the proposed EU legislation to issue a de-facto ban on all vaping products currently on the market is scheduled to be discussed this week. Big Tobacco and Big Pharma have huge, well filled war chests full of money to pay off politicians. All we citizens have are our voices. The voices of citizens, human beings, against the money of Big Industry. Ha ha.

I am prepared to go underground. And I am prepared to buy from the Black Market. Once my - considerable - storage has been deplenished.

I am not prepared to let myself be victimized to serve the greed of Big Industry and corrupt bureaucrats.

And I agree with schuff:

All you would really need is a cache of nicotine and a rebuildable atomizer. Food flavoring, PG, VG and the printed circuit boards will not be banned because of their uses in other products. So if you can DIY for the liquid and build / find someone to build a mod then your golden.

Stock up on the necessary stuff to be independent of any sources for a long while.
And then, a market will develop. Where there is demand, there is supply.

I never would have thought that I would have to go to the Black Market to live a healthier life.
But that is what it will probably all boil down to.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

I agree this is probably not the forum. Apologies, I am removing my post above now.

Just say that I am not building any bomb shelters, let me put it that way.

 

[FourWinds]

I'm only new into e-cigs, so I'm reading in a damn hurry. I already have a good grip on how to store nicotine concentrate long term, and that's a good start; I'll start ordering and decanting soon. I'm not clear on VG, PG and flavourings availability in the future; I'm still reading, and don't have full understanding. A PSU or battery of some sort is of no concern. I'm not so worried about tanks and atomizers (rebuilding looks like a breeze, and it's hard to ban wire). I think I'll be alright, and will be able to teach others in time.

Like others have said: it's my life, and for this I'll engage in the black market; hell I'll even become part of it. Can imagine the first time they throw some poor bugger in jail because of e-cig supply smuggling? The S' storm that follows will elevate that guy to Gandhi status.


Please note that nothing I am talking about here is in any way currently illegal.

 

[DC2]

I'm only new into e-cigs, so I'm reading in a damn hurry. I already have a good grip on how to store nicotine concentrate long term, and that's a good start; I'll start ordering and decanting soon. I'm not clear on VG, PG and flavourings availability in the future; I'm still reading, and don't have full understanding. A PSU or battery of some sort is of no concern. I'm not so worried about tanks and atomizers (rebuilding looks like a breeze, and it's hard to ban wire).

I think we can safely assume that PG, VG, flavorings, wire, wicking material, batteries and chargers are completely safe.
The concern is, and always will be, the availability of free-roaming nicotine base.

Without free-roaming nicotine base, the ability to DIY is gone.
And almost all of the big independent vendors will likely go out of business.

This is why a person who has concerns should get some rebuildable atomizers and a stash of nicotine base.
I have the nicotine base, but I haven't turned my attention to rebuildable atomizers yet.

But I will if and/or when the time comes.

 

[northhar]

I will add... Attend or start Vape meets, it will help to form groups in your area. Groups will help cut the learning curve and serve as a valuable local resource.
That is what I have done.. beside a lot of what has been mentioned in the previous posts..

 

[patkin]

I'm only new into e-cigs, so I'm reading in a damn hurry. I already have a good grip on how to store nicotine concentrate long term, and that's a good start; I'll start ordering and decanting soon. I'm not clear on VG, PG and flavourings availability in the future; I'm still reading, and don't have full understanding. A PSU or battery of some sort is of no concern. I'm not so worried about tanks and atomizers (rebuilding looks like a breeze, and it's hard to ban wire). I think I'll be alright, and will be able to teach others in time.

Like others have said: it's my life, and for this I'll engage in the black market; hell I'll even become part of it. Can imagine the first time they throw some poor bugger in jail because of e-cig supply smuggling? The S' storm that follows will elevate that guy to Gandhi status.


Please note that nothing I am talking about here is in any way currently illegal.

This is JMHO of course but as a fairly exclusively tobacco flavor vaper, I'm grabbing various tobacco flavorings for stash. The other food flavorings will always be available but, call me paranoid, I expect the Feds to ban the sale of tobacco flavoring. The reason? Because they want those wishing to be x-smokers to be dependent on BT only... in the form of pre-filled cartos. Even if they are still allowed by some stretch, so far I haven't seen anyone but vape (not Loranne or Capella for instance) vendors selling tobacco flavoring and they're the ones that will be coded as tobacco companies so, being in Arizona, I may have a hard time buying them on the net due to the financial transactions with those coded business being stopped. A good look at your local government and how they handle tobacco net sales should tell you what they'll do if businesses carrying vape products will be coded tobacco also.

 

[Thunderball]

The FDA is not an elected group by citizens. They are, and always have been made up of representatives of (unless in recent years have changed) Proctor and Gamble, Companies that control comodities such as Sugar, Corn etc, etc.... They are a joke. I know this to be true in the 70's and 80's and 90's. Havent kept up with them since then.

 

[LDS714]

For those worried about "big tobacco" taking over because of political influence (I still haven't seen a cigarette commercial in the 2000s) they are GETTING INTO the e-cig business, some more deeply than others. So why would they be for regulation just as they are putting their towel in the ring? That is EXTREMELY poor business practices and since smoking/vaping is considered a nichè market, it would make it harder for them to recoup money lost from buying companies to shut down. This isn't WalMart vs Mom & Pop stores, its more like Hobby Lobby v Michaels.

Seriously?

They are in the position to ensure a virtual monopoly by seeing to it that regulations are such that only those with extremely deep pockets could comply with them. They wouldn't have to buy the competing companies and shut them down, they've already bought politicians to do that for them.

 

[JasonV]

Seriously?

They are in the position to ensure a virtual monopoly by seeing to it that regulations are such that only those with extremely deep pockets could comply with them. They wouldn't have to buy the competing companies and shut them down, they've already bought politicians to do that for them.

Oh, ok. I didn't know that BT had their "bought politicians" force them to spends millions on misleading anti-smoking ads, keep them from marketing, and remove description words like "Light" from their boxes. All this time I thought that would hurt their business, but apparently BT thought those were good things. My apologies.

 

[LDS714]

Oh, ok. I didn't know that BT had their "bought politicians" force them to spends millions on misleading anti-smoking ads, keep them from marketing, and remove description words like "Light" from their boxes. All this time I thought that would hurt their business, but apparently BT thought those were good things. My apologies.

It's all about the money.

Look into the Master Settlement Agreement. They're pumping billions into state and local governments (which incidentally is probably less than they would have spent on advertising). If people switch to vaping, they drop the cigarettes, costing both the politicians and BT megabucks.

Here's an outstanding post from another thread:

Our politicians are not doing "the voters will" because the public is outraged over vaping. There is no public "outcry" against vaping. That is an irrational fear that many vapers hold to and justifies their self righteous anger when they see someone else do it...."they'll ruin it for everyone" is the common clarion cry.

No, the overwhelming evidence is that the politicians and policy makers are responding to $$$$. When the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement was done in 1998. Big Tobacco agreed to pay 10 BILLION dollars to states as part of the settlement in perpetuity. This money is SUPPOSED to be used for public health initiatives and to prevent tobacco use in kids.

The idea was keep kids from smoking and let existing smokers die out. States soon realized that if there were no new smokers, then their settlement funds would dry up. After all, the settlement is based on percentage of sales. So a majority of states have done NOTHING to prevent youth smoking with the exception of public service announcements and the creation of organizations of groups like Tobacco Free Kids. Also, the states continue to pass groundless legislation that restricts WHERE you can smoke, but not where you can buy them. This is why you don't see State run Tobacco stores. The idea is keep them readily accessible, so that you can continue to collect your settlement funds.

Now comes e-cigs, which have grown into a 1 Billion dollar industry and our elected officials are now looking at a product that not only negatively impacts CURRENT tobacco sales, but has the potential to negatively impact future tobacco sales. Here is a product that could actually fulfill the goals set out by the MSA. Here is a product that actually could replace smoking, AND effectively shut out 46 states of roughly 10 Billion dollars a year.

And SHOCK...Youth smokers are turning to e-cigs as well. OH OH....10 BILLION Dollars per year to the 46 member states is now in jeopardy... AND don't think Big Tobacco isn't reminding states of this as well. If we don't sell our product, you don't get your money. So now we hear the "Save The Children" cry regarding e-cigs.....

So now the states are pressuring their local communities to ban e-cigs wherever smoking is banned and telling local communities if they don't pass these restrictions, they don't get a share of the Tobacco money because they are "non compliant". Meanwhile, States are attempting to ban internet sales, because a large part of the Billion dollar industry is based on internet sales.

As a result, towns and states are trying to kill the industry that can effectively cost them 10 Billion dollars a year alone in settlement money, not to mention the tobacco tax they receive based on sales, and vapers think that public vaping is the reason.....Wake up!!!

Follow the money.

 

[JasonV]

It's all about the money.

Look into the Master Settlement Agreement. They're pumping billions into state and local governments (which incidentally is probably less than they would have spent on advertising). If people switch to vaping, they drop the cigarettes, costing both the politicians and BT megabucks.

Here's an outstanding post from another thread:

10 billion dollars a year? Really believe that propoganda? Tobacco indusrty wouldn't turn a profit let alone as big as a profit as they make. Do you know how much your local and state politicians make yearly? Do you know your states budget? 10 billion divided by 46 would be a little over 217 million each. That would easily cover my states budget then some yearly. Yet my state, with many others, are facing budget shortfalls.
It seems people aren't understanding my position, so let me clarify: Regulations are inevitable, we can either fight them and lose no matter what or we can help write them and make sure; A) Unicorn milk mistake doesn't repeat itself B) we are not lumped in with cigarettes limited where we can vape.