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Price of liquids

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by Thommi, Sep 28, 2013.

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  1. Thommi

    Thommi Full Member

    Sep 4, 2013
    RE, Italy
    I´ve been reading through this topic:

    It somewhat matches my experience, "normal" prices around $5 for 10ml.
    Of course there are extreme variations of this, like chinese liquids for 99 cents or (supposedly) high quality stuff for like $20, buying online is always cheaper than a local store, but no matter where you look, absolutely nothing comes remotely close to DIY.

    I don´t even have to figure the resellers prices for the ingredients, if only I go by the small amounts a private end customer like me uses and add up the prices I pay for everything, I get to ridiculous low values for 10ml.
    Depending on nicotine content and type of flavouring it costs me between 10 and 30 cents to mix 10ml.
    Even if I take the most expensive flavourings, mix nicotine with 18mg/ml and add the price of empty bottles, I still remain below 50 cents for 10ml.

    Now I don´t want to argue why the shops have to charge 10 times the price, labor, tax and storage doesn´t pay itself, so even though they must be paying much lower reseller prices, the end price may very well be justified, but I wonder why are shops still able to sell anything at these huge differences?
    Of course the law requires much better hygienic conditions for shops who want to mix liquids themselves, like a super clean laboratory, but if shops have to charge these high prices to cover their expenses, that doesn´t neccessary mean users are forced to pay those prices, to my mind it should mean shops can´t even offer liquids because their expenses and subsequent selling prices exceed the users will on spending.

    Personally I started vaping because smoking had become just too expensive.
    If I would pay the shops prices for ready made liquids I wouldn´t save anything, just the opposite, in addition with the hardware it would cost more than smoking.
    For me it was logic, as soon as I discovered these differences I invested a few hours reading, learned how to make my own liquids and from there on I haven´t used any ready made stuff.
    The initial investment for some tools like a scale, measuring cups, some syringes and empty bottles paid out within the first 100ml and ever since that I´m saving about 95% of the costs.
    (That was less than 3 weeks after I started vaping.)
    If I consider the money I´m saving this way, the time it takes me to make the liquids is better paid than the same time in my job and compared to ordering ready made stuff from all kind of different brands just to find the best taste, I find it more fun to develop my skills and mix better and better flavours myself.
    Of course, once in a while I mix a mess and have to trash a few ml, but the loss from that remains in a range of cents.

    Are there really so many newbies around who don´t know how to do (or don´t dare doing) this, or are most vapers careless with their money, thinking saving health is enough, saving money would be exaggerated?
  2. tazzjv123

    tazzjv123 Full Member

    Sep 28, 2013
    United States
  3. szot

    szot Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    I pay $5 for 15ML...$7.50 for 30ML..and $11 for vaping cost me a total of $13 a month ..and an initial starter kit cost of $ vaping is very inexpensive.. I don't need to do DIY mixes and hassles to save on liquids..
  4. Jonathan Tittle

    Jonathan Tittle Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2013
    Johnson City, TN, USA
    The market prices are valid because many new vapors don't want to get into DIY, much less stock chemicals they don't fully understand how to mix/blend. Even if you and I think DIY is the easiest thing to do, others may not or may have more fear of mixing chemicals.

    For me, 99% of my money goes into DIY and perfecting unique flavors that I can call ADV's. If I see a vendor with something unique I'll make an investment to try it out, but I won't buy basic flavors such as Strawberry, Apple, Orange etc. Those are too easy to DIY and I don't personally feel they're worth $10-$20 per X ml. I skip over them.

    With that said, not everyone prefers blended flavors, so most dealers stock single-flavor blends so they can appeal to a wider audience.
  5. Susan W.

    Susan W. Provarinati in fideliam ☆ Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 30, 2013
    Torrance, CA
    I guess I fall into "vaper careless with my money" given the reasons you have for DIY'ing. I'm not disputing that making your own flavors is cheaper than buying it pre-made. It also takes time and experimenting to make decent flavors and measuring and time. Measuring, math, documenting isn't something I want to do and if something is going to cause me stress to do it, it's worth it to me to buy it already made.
  6. yoyoyo

    yoyoyo Full Member

    Sep 20, 2013
    $8.3 for 30 ml gotta buy 6 so basically $50 for 6x 30 ml
  7. Topwater Elvis

    Topwater Elvis Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    Some of us don't have the time or inclination to DIY juice or for vaping to be a hobby of sorts.
    I'm in and out of the B&M I usually buy from with exactly what I want in 2 ~ 5 minutes if I don't visit for a while.
    I pay for the convenience, consistency and the saving of my time.
    The main reason I don't DIY juice is I'm not careless with my time or money.

    I've saved a bunch of $$$ since I quit smoking & started vaping using bought juices.
    Of course if you're still in the vendor / flavor / pg/vg ratio discovery phase your juice cost will be higher.
    For me the only times Ive been disappointed or ended up with what I considered unvapable juice was due to buying highly recommended flavors from highly recommended online sources / vendors.
  8. naplesvapoor

    naplesvapoor Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2013
    Naples, FL USA
    Great insights. In fact, based on what I have spent for this new found vaping alternative in the past 3 weeks of starting it, it will take me 60 days or so to recoup my upfront costs.
    After that , it is liquids and rebuild bottom coil materials and energy to charge batteries :)

    Regardless, I also count the costs of health and well being down the road.

    The potential to have a big hole in my throat and develop COPD means bed time and loss of work.
    Being self employed, I cannot afford this to happen.

    So, I will DEFEND this alternative that has been working for me to my last dying breath.
  9. cedric212

    cedric212 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 5, 2012
    Columbus, Ohio
    Love DIYing my own eliquid, it takes me 1-2min to whip out a 30mL bottle while leaving little to no mess to clean up afterwards. It does take some experimentation with different flavorings to find a ADV, but once you got it down, it'll cost you <$7 for a 100mL bottle of eliquid. While my DIY product may not be of "premium" quality, but it's definitely better than some of the crappy eliquids that's being offered by some venders. Just my :2c:
  10. Thommi

    Thommi Full Member

    Sep 4, 2013
    RE, Italy
    Thanks for all your input.
    I guess there´s one point I forgot to mention.
    You may call me a chain vaper or something like that, I´m using some pretty big gear, like a Taifun GT with a DNA20 underneath or a Nimbus RA quad coil with a mech mod underneath and I´m consuming about 20ml per day.
    Obviously I do this only with very low nicotine, like 2mg/ml, meaning for me the fact that DIY becomes cheaper the less nic is in the liquid pays out much more than for "normal" vapers.

    If I had to pay $5 for every 10ml that would add up to $300 a month, at discount prices maybe $150 a month.
    Including cleaning up afterwards it takes me about 1/2 hour to mix a months supply in half a dozen different flavors.
    $150 minus some $10 I pay for the ingredients still compares to $140 for 30 minutes of work.
    I never had a job so well paid.
  11. hvac999

    hvac999 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2010
    Charlotte, NC
    I pay about $10 a week including everything. I do admit that it was triple that when I first started. I do think DIY is the cheapest but not the most convenient. To tell you the truth I'm too lazy for DIY and with places like Mt Baker Vapor and Madvapes it is plenty affordable to me, and a LOT less than smoking.
  12. Debra_oh

    Debra_oh Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 23, 2013
    Cleveland, OH
    I am happy that DIY fits your lifestyle but it seems a bit judgmental to say I am careless with my money because i choose not to DIY. I don't change my own oil, steam clean my carpets, clean the chimney, cut a side of beef into roasts or steaks, or numerous other things I could do to save money but not doing those things does not mean i am careless. I like ordering juices and exploring others creations. I am also well aware of my budget and what I can spend on juices.

    One day I may start playing with DIY because I think it would be fun not because i want my vaping to be s inexpensive as possible.
  13. White Rabbit

    White Rabbit Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Making your own e-liquid (DIY) makes vaping more of a hobby. Since I previously made my own cigarettes using a machine and bulk tobacco at $7.00 per carton, I don't think I will ever "save money". That being said, I still attempt to keep the costs as low as possible. After spending about $150 trying various pre made e-juice in order to find that "Holy Grail" of an "All Day Vape", I moved on to DIY and now make my juice at approximately 7.32 cents per ML or $3.66 for 50 ML and my All Day Vape is Double RY4 with added Caramel and Vanilla from The Flavor Apprentice. I also tend to chain vape and although there are some very good pre-made e-juice vendors out there, I would spend a lot more on consumables if I did not mix my own.

    Just My :2c: and that is about all it is worth :laugh:

    Best Wishes to everyone

    The Wabbit
  14. NiNi

    NiNi Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 4, 2013
    Paulden, Arizona
    Because the nearest vape shop is 30+ miles away,(it didn't exist when I first started) and where we live is out in the boonies, I do my e juice buying online. I watch for coupon codes and make sure I'm on several email lists. I also haven't found the flavors I really like yet, which would hinder me from doing DIY because if I don't know what I like, I'd spend money on flavorings that are pointless.

    Because of remodeling, the general seasonal maintenance of ranch/farm stuff, 2 wolves running in and out of the house, and no place to safely store and DIY, I'm in a hold pattern. I know where I'll eventually get my ingredients, what flavoring brand I'll use, and I have most of the mixing equipment here just from general livestock husbandry. Barring that, and a motorcycle to put together before winter, firewood to cut, (last night it was down to 31 degrees) training a horse, and changing out some parts on the tractor...........Heck ya, I'd be DIY-ing!

    Right now I have more money than time, so buying mixed ejuice works for me.:)
  15. awsum140

    awsum140 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I'm glad I got into DIY. Mixing for less than four cents a milliliter lets me afford all those nice new mods! Seriously, I went through about ten vendors and I don't know how much liquid when I started vaping and only found one I liked, and still like for that matter. So I tried DIY and hit on an ADV right away. I still "tinker" with it, adding a little of this or that, but I really like what I created, plus I get to play mad scientist every time I need more liquids.

    The other, major, advantage I see is know exactly what is going into the liquids. I know there are many vendors, now, that list their ingredients as in PG, VG, nicotine and artificial flavors. Most also show as being USP, Kosher and food grade. I know exactly what flavors went in, without question, as well as just how much. I can also change my nicotine level whenever I want and slowly lower it down over time. I know, you can buy a bottle of Xmg and another bottle of the same flavor at Ymg then mix them together to get Zmg, but, that to me, is a bigger pain than just flat out mixing what I want.
  16. DustyZ

    DustyZ Suspended Verified Member

    Jul 5, 2013
    Ocala, FL, USA
    The fact is there is always going to be people who just do not wish to DIY for a variety of reasons so if they are comfortable with paying higher prices for someone else to do it that's their choice, I like DIY but I also like to purchase the from my personal favorite MBV. I can also make lotions, custom blended massage oils etc, etc. Not everyone is into doing all of that type of thing, it's a matter or personal preference, just like some people don't want to bother rebuilding their own coils, free will an all that!
  17. Traver

    Traver Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 28, 2010
    When the FDA decides to regulate the sale of juice, flavors or nicotine in juice then knowing how make your own juice might be a good thing.
  18. Fulgurant

    Fulgurant Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 21, 2013
    Philadelphia, PA, USA
    My only regret is that I have but one Like to give the above-quoted post. :)

    How much or how little money you save by vaping depends on a whole host of factors -- how much you smoked before, what exactly you smoked before, the applicable tobacco taxes in your locality, whether you enjoy buying new vaping gadgets, how picky you are about vapor production and/or juice flavors, and perhaps most importantly, how much time and effort you're willing to devote to fine-tuning your vaping experience.

    For someone like me, who smoked more than 2 packs of cigarettes per day for more than twenty years, who lives in a fairly high-tobacco-tax area of the United States, and who (at least presently) isn't terribly interested in taking up a new hobby -- pre-mixed juices are ideal. At the present rate at which I consume juice, a single 30-mL bottle lasts about six days. During that same period, I'd have spent somewhere around $100 on cigarettes. So although I spent a fair amount of money up-front for vaping equipment, and although juice won't be the only recurring expense, I can afford to buy what ECF commentators might generally regard as over-priced juice (~$18 for a 30mL bottle).

    Frankly, I could afford to buy so-called over-priced juice many times over, and I'd still break even. Of course, ideally I'd like to pay less, and as time passes I'm sure I'll find ways to cut my recurring expenses -- but the main goal is to quit smoking, and so far so good on that front. Quitting cigarettes isn't a trivial thing; if you can do that, then you should, even if the monetary cost is high.

    Everything else is gravy.

    All of that said, I am certainly not an expert on DIY juices. I'm sure you can wring a lot of value out of the DIY process, but I imagine it takes a lot of time, effort, and probably cost to get to the point where you're reliably producing all-day-vape-quality juices. You don't just order a bottle of pure nicotine, stir in some flavors, and voila! Factoring in steep times, it'll probably take weeks before you can even begin to assess whether what you've produced is worthwhile, and personally, I just don't have the stamina for that sort of effort. Like Debra, I'd prefer to save money in other areas. Your mileage may vary.
  19. Thommi

    Thommi Full Member

    Sep 4, 2013
    RE, Italy
    I didn´t mean to offend anyone.
    I didn´t mean to say people are careless with their money, that was just one possibility out of my guessing, worded as a question.
    I already know I prefer 100% DIY, I was just curious what others think and I figured it can´t hurt exchanging opinions.
  20. Xanimal13

    Xanimal13 Full Member

    I pay about $5-$10 at my local B&M for juices, but I try to order online a lot where prices are tons better.
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