So with the coils you guys make now how many watts can you run before the rubber starts to burn?
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Been out to 9W on a 28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d. (2.5mm Silica) micro coil @1.62Ω. Much hotter vape than I was comfortable with. Much warmer than 12W on an immo or 15 on a forge both on mech's. Can deal with them. Diff on a PT, no where near as airy at those elevations, but no burned grommets. No hot legs. Haven't had one in months in operation using the approach detailed here and in metalhed's cotton thread for the PT. I posted a link to real replacement grommets earlier if you look at my posts today. I'll be replacing my seared ones from the first month or so. They're a little bit too boiled over getting hard and hard to work with. Put those honeys through the ringer.
Good luck and post your results if you decide to go there.
Great Scott! You were so helpful and I just realized nobody picked up to give you an answer here vdaedalus. Crikey. Sorry 'bout that.
Listen I had mixed results working cotton into the PT. I found the best result was centering the coil in the slot at 2mm and only wicking the coil rather loosely so I could leave the single wick fluffy enough to fill the slot. Anything less and I leaked into the cup and ultimately into the 510 sometime during the tank. A pain but not insufferable. I usually fill at 1/4 to 3/4 anyway and thoroughly dry with a q-tip in the smokestack as I do. Still, I was having to push down the 2mm coil into a central position and although not fully aware at the time I was creating hot legs and shorts by disfiguring the coil or forcing contact of legs that were too close. I blamed the cotton and moved my research sideways to other media and coil sizes.
Perhaps fixing 1.75 cotton with a top wick (not silica) may be the solution but I never tested that. I'd be tempted to try Nextel or Ekowool.
Please pardon the omission. I wanted to thank you again for your resistance confirmation and revisited your quote. Wish more people would post these in that detail. Missing one parameter or another means nothing.
Good luck!
I always put a small "flavor wick" on top of my Microcoil with cotton, but I build a slightly smaller diameter coil also (wrap around the 1/16" bit).. I'm going to look around for something that's slightly larger than 1/16in (1.5875mm) to build on, and try no flavor wick with the wider coil. I want to find something that I can build a 1.75mm MC on, like you Mac
..... With the 1.5875 micro, I slide just enough cotton through the coil so there's the tiniest bit of tension pulling it through, than an even smaller piece of cotton on top of the coil. It usually works very well, but I still haven't tried a MC with a different I.D. than 1.5875mm
Still vaping on this crappy stock coil right now, but I'm about to tear it apart and MicroCoil it within the next hour, when this tank runs out.. It's starting to taste burnt now (as predicted after 2 days @ around 6W), and the silica taste never left. I think the main issue with this particular stock head, was that Kanger put too much silica in the coil, and on top as a flavor wick. I pulled out half of 1 of the flavor wicks, and still got a weird silica-like taste throughout the entire 2 tanks I vaped - the vapor was good though I must admit
... Can't wait to actually taste my juice again when I build my next cotton microcoil!! Might switch up my flavor too, I'm always vaping the same marshmallowy flavor, and I think it's getting old after about 11 months
..... With the 1.5875 micro, I slide just enough cotton through the coil so there's the tiniest bit of tension pulling it through, than an even smaller piece of cotton on top of the coil. It usually works very well, but I still haven't tried a MC with a different I.D. than 1.5875mm
Still vaping on this crappy stock coil right now, but I'm about to tear it apart and MicroCoil it within the next hour, when this tank runs out.. It's starting to taste burnt now (as predicted after 2 days @ around 6W), and the silica taste never left. I think the main issue with this particular stock head, was that Kanger put too much silica in the coil, and on top as a flavor wick. I pulled out half of 1 of the flavor wicks, and still got a weird silica-like taste throughout the entire 2 tanks I vaped - the vapor was good though I must admit
... Can't wait to actually taste my juice again when I build my next cotton microcoil!! Might switch up my flavor too, I'm always vaping the same marshmallowy flavor, and I think it's getting old after about 11 months
SO I just found a small Nail, that is slightly wider than my 1/16inch drill-bit, but still narrow enough to be able to fit all the way into the bottom of the slot!!
Just wrapped on it 10x with 30ga, slid some cotton through (and a tiny piece on top again - maybe with the wider MC, I shoud've skipped the flavor-wick this time?), and letting it soak up some juice right now before I vape it.. I also took off the silcone ring that sits above the shaft this time; I usually turn it upside down
Coming in at 2.1Ω! I'm guessing this MC's coil's inner diameter is around 1.8-1.9mm or so, since I've heard a 5/64in drill bit won't fill all the way down into the slot like this nail did.. And it wasn't one of my best builds, I rushed it a bit and the nail is slightly curved, so 1 coil overlaps at the end I think. I'll see how it vapes!
Just wrapped on it 10x with 30ga, slid some cotton through (and a tiny piece on top again - maybe with the wider MC, I shoud've skipped the flavor-wick this time?), and letting it soak up some juice right now before I vape it.. I also took off the silcone ring that sits above the shaft this time; I usually turn it upside down
Coming in at 2.1Ω! I'm guessing this MC's coil's inner diameter is around 1.8-1.9mm or so, since I've heard a 5/64in drill bit won't fill all the way down into the slot like this nail did.. And it wasn't one of my best builds, I rushed it a bit and the nail is slightly curved, so 1 coil overlaps at the end I think. I'll see how it vapes!
lol, I cranked my svd up to 15 watts and doing a little chain vaping too, though I didn't really want to push it too hard for too long, just to see if I could get a dry hit from the cotton wick and I got nothing but nice vapor.
I usually run between 6-8 watts.
I love Rip. Tell ya what, he brought it home for me. The reworks that he did on mesh, ceramic wick and micro coils made it real. But he is quite the showman. And that's the magic of it. I think few of us could handle the 15W+ vapes he creates. Not that we won't try, right!?
Really girls have a huge advantage over fella's here. All that dexterity (fine finger motion motor control is the technical jargon for it). Why women make such outstanding shooters at the front line. It's control. Believe me you'll have it and'll whip out these "little bad boys" in no time, I'm sure. And when you hit that magic number on the dial you'll be in vape heaven. Just hope you don't forget us then.
I'll be keepin' a lookout fer your tips!
Good luck!
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Just a quick update, I'm caught up on the thread but haven't got time to address quotes (thanks to everyone who helped me out), but I think I have the cotton gurgle issue sorted.
Got an 8/7 30AWG coil registering at 1.8 ohm, stuffed it with cotton, added a flavour wick, soaked both of those lightly with liquid, closed her up, topped up the Protank, and am currently in vape heaven with some Jugheads Swedish Pastry (SO. GOOD.). No gurgles, doesn't feel like there's even a RISK of dry hits, it's wicking perfectly, just the right amount of sizzle and crackle. If nothing else, I can just keep re-wicking this coil until it disintegrates. (but I kind of want to knock out three or four heads with this same winding so I have a 'stable' to work with)
I think I just wasn't adding enough cotton. I keep reading/hearing that cotton absorbs more than you think, give it room to expand, and so on, and in the end I just did a 'medium' roll from a cotton ball (not tight, not puffy), pulled it through, same with the top wick, and all is well.
Got an 8/7 30AWG coil registering at 1.8 ohm, stuffed it with cotton, added a flavour wick, soaked both of those lightly with liquid, closed her up, topped up the Protank, and am currently in vape heaven with some Jugheads Swedish Pastry (SO. GOOD.). No gurgles, doesn't feel like there's even a RISK of dry hits, it's wicking perfectly, just the right amount of sizzle and crackle. If nothing else, I can just keep re-wicking this coil until it disintegrates. (but I kind of want to knock out three or four heads with this same winding so I have a 'stable' to work with)
I think I just wasn't adding enough cotton. I keep reading/hearing that cotton absorbs more than you think, give it room to expand, and so on, and in the end I just did a 'medium' roll from a cotton ball (not tight, not puffy), pulled it through, same with the top wick, and all is well.
Sounds like you nailed it (on 1/16") vdaedalus. Outstanding! The "stable", that's the hard part. Keeping that going's that's the real challenge, once you got it happenin'. The rest's easy.
I was going to add that one of the things I tried as a top wick was surgical gauze with a weave not much unlike cheese cloth and that held together pretty well atop coils rather than a cotton top wick (a very tiny sliver was all that was required). I used it with both Ekowool and silica. Oddly I didn't use it with cotton as I had put that aside. I may now go back and try that to fill the gap as I can drop the coil down further in the slot without relying on a main cotton wick.
Thanks for letting us know about your success.
Enjoy!
My new MC design is vaping nicely, but can't decide if this slightly wider microcoil is giving me a better vape than my usual 1/16" coil.. I'll have to do some more experimenting, different resistances and such..
SO I just found a small Nail, that is slightly wider than my 1/16inch drill-bit, but still narrow enough to be able to fit all the way into the bottom of the slot!!
Just wrapped on it 10x with 30ga, slid some cotton through (and a tiny piece on top again - maybe with the wider MC, I shoud've skipped the flavor-wick this time?), and letting it soak up some juice right now before I vape it.. I also took off the silcone ring that sits above the shaft this time; I usually turn it upside down
Coming in at 2.1Ω! I'm guessing this MC's coil's inner diameter is around 1.8-1.9mm or so, since I've heard a 5/64in drill bit won't fill all the way down into the slot like this nail did.. And it wasn't one of my best builds, I rushed it a bit and the nail is slightly curved, so 1 coil overlaps at the end I think. I'll see how it vapes!
M to address this and your two earlier. I am hunting for the tools. I'm a tech geek so I have quite a variety of drill and bit gauges including some unusual ones you have seen, i.e. 3/43" (1.77mm). I'm always searching for more like a good precision 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 mm not flat tip. I find them but not in the quality of materials I'd like. Nor the one I'm working right now. It's got burrs which I have worked on but still affect the wind. I'm careful not to take off too much and skew the thing. I hung a beautiful coil on one bit the other day, one of three I killed. LOL The other part of the kit is wire gauges and I'm adding 29 and 31 AWG to the mix in the table so I can match diameters and gauges to make better attempts at targets. Right now I'm somewhat hampered by lack of proper tools despite the assortment I own. Some heat resistant handles on a bit I could burn would be ideal.
I generally wind overhand or underhand; at others, I really depend on the grip design as I turn the work under tension instead. Sometimes while applying heat.
Your second part above may be correct. For the wick media you prefer 1/16" may be perfect, for you. But only you will know that or if alternative winds or media may improve upon it. The thing I see as important is having the right tool/s and media to narrow the zone and hit it precisely and consistently once identified. That's where it stops being frustrating work and more rewarding.
I gave up for tonight as I popped the legs on a .5 ribbon wind burning them off under too much pressure from a stationary hold. This is not a build I would encourage but I'm trying to fuse a high count ribbon pair for a high sub-ohm build on the Immortalizer. I need them as rigid as possible to support the wick media I'd like to use. I've done it before it just takes a bit longer than straight wire.
So anyway M glad you're seeing some success. I like that 2-2.1 zone on the Protank. I'm torn with some of the nice vapes I've done at 1.8Ω lately. Beauty is I can rip them off pretty fast now and always have a few new or old I can quickly rewick and throw on. I'll be frank, using Nextel has made it easy because it's a matter of seconds to insert and include a top-wick I've previously used and torched.
As I've said, I love cotton on the RDA's and I know you will too.
Have a great evening.
Just wanted to make a brief comment on this earlier. Mind you I'm not building for cotton on the PT for now. I'm using Nextel XC-132 sleeve which is just shy of 2mm if you fill it with a needle. I'f I can come up with a slight larger bit I'm going to run a very specific braided cotton threading I haven't heard used yet through it. Easily removable/replaceable and may add to the flavor and saturation considerably. A 1.8mm s/s Phillips screwdriver preferably with an insulated grip and I'm there.
And a footnote, that I've found as you above. I think 2-2.5 tank fills is about it for a PT (with dense liquids). I start to see discoloration and flavor is affected. But no manner to the extent it happened with silica in a conventional coil. I'm working three VM's tonight at 9turns of 30G, 1.75mm in various stages and looking at the extents of color gradient. It's not too bad and I can certainly vape all. Couldn't have done that with silica. Oh, but vape em hard over 6W and you can hasten that process right quick.
Goodnight M, enjoy.
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Agreed. Oh and I forgot to mention, that 1.8ohm wind was on a 5/64" bit, which I had never tried because it seemed a bit big (1.98mm?). I ended up using a 1/16" bit to hold it steady while I got the legs set up in the grommet and post, though, since the 5/64" wouldn't fit in the gap.
Still using it this morning, I've put about half a Protank through it since I built it and it's still vaping like it did last night, which is to say excellently.
You must have literally read my mind. That's just what I would've suggest for anyone wanting to use 2mm i.d. for cotton. But it's quite another matter to get the media in there once you've dropped the wind into the bottom of the slot. That's why I abandoned it. A new hand would take that pretty coil you made and mangle it trying to insert fiddly silica and pulling down too hard on the legs. It takes a little practice to get the tension right. Man, I bleed for them when I consider how hard it is at times to keep up. That's why I'm trying to carefully put some of this in perspective. Wouldn't want to impose that torture on anyone. LOL Hope that some of us might be able to make the months of struggle a lot shorter and more rewarding for at least a few that follow.
Good luck vdaedalus!
So my package from RTD Vape arrived yesterday, containing, among other things, a small spool of Kanthal resistance wire. Time to get to work!
While I was waiting for it to arrive, I scoured my house for something that might work to wrap the coil. I settled on a large-gauge needle which fit perfectly into the slots on the coil head, though it had a flared tip that I needed to clip off to make it serviceable.
So at this point I was just playing by ear, I wrapped about 10 loops and adjusted with a pair of tweezers, then compressed them and heated them with a Bic lighter (I do not yet have a butane torch so I had to make due with what was available).
I ran the legs down the base and yada yada, adjusted the positioning and spacing of the coils and got everything seated.
Well, I overshot my target resistance by about a mile as it came to about 3.4 ohms, but on test firing it appeared to heat up nice and evenly. Good enough for testing purposes.
At this point I threaded some cotton (sourced from a cotton ball) through the coils and set a small flavor wick above it and trimmed the ends. Saturated with some liquid and test-fired. Sizzle and vape. Time to put it all together and try it out!
Well, it turns out I originally inserted the rubber grommet a bit funny which caused the end to flare out and completely cut off the air flow to my Protank. After carefully correcting the grommet and praying to avoid messing up the seating of the coil in the process, I set it all back up and proceeded to have a vape.
I've never generated clouds like this with my Protank before. The draw is tighter than usual (this is a good thing!) and it doesn't burn during a long pull. Wicking appears to be perfect, the vape is nice and moist and a little bit warmer than I'm used to from a bottom coil. It takes a little longer to fire up than usual, but this was to be expected from the ridiculously high resistance of the coil.
The flavor was clean, but maybe a little bit muted. I'm not sure if this is a result of the cotton I used, or the way I built the wick, or the coil itself. More to follow on this matter as I continue to experiment, but it definitely wasn't bad.
At the end of the day I'm calling it a success, to be honest I'm amazed that it actually worked on the first try (discounting the grommet/airflow incident) and impressed at how high I can crank it up (another byproduct of the high resistance coil). I found it performed adequately all the way up to 6.0V, but seemed to do best around 5.5V.
Interested to see how this proceeds as I get a little more experience under my belt.
Note: RTD Vape already has a great reputation around here but if you haven't purchased from them yet I will say you would absolutely not be disappointed in doing so. I posted a small unboxing review which can be found in their vendor thread which I would link if I wasn't posting this from my phone.
While I was waiting for it to arrive, I scoured my house for something that might work to wrap the coil. I settled on a large-gauge needle which fit perfectly into the slots on the coil head, though it had a flared tip that I needed to clip off to make it serviceable.
So at this point I was just playing by ear, I wrapped about 10 loops and adjusted with a pair of tweezers, then compressed them and heated them with a Bic lighter (I do not yet have a butane torch so I had to make due with what was available).
I ran the legs down the base and yada yada, adjusted the positioning and spacing of the coils and got everything seated.
Well, I overshot my target resistance by about a mile as it came to about 3.4 ohms, but on test firing it appeared to heat up nice and evenly. Good enough for testing purposes.
At this point I threaded some cotton (sourced from a cotton ball) through the coils and set a small flavor wick above it and trimmed the ends. Saturated with some liquid and test-fired. Sizzle and vape. Time to put it all together and try it out!
Well, it turns out I originally inserted the rubber grommet a bit funny which caused the end to flare out and completely cut off the air flow to my Protank. After carefully correcting the grommet and praying to avoid messing up the seating of the coil in the process, I set it all back up and proceeded to have a vape.
I've never generated clouds like this with my Protank before. The draw is tighter than usual (this is a good thing!) and it doesn't burn during a long pull. Wicking appears to be perfect, the vape is nice and moist and a little bit warmer than I'm used to from a bottom coil. It takes a little longer to fire up than usual, but this was to be expected from the ridiculously high resistance of the coil.
The flavor was clean, but maybe a little bit muted. I'm not sure if this is a result of the cotton I used, or the way I built the wick, or the coil itself. More to follow on this matter as I continue to experiment, but it definitely wasn't bad.
At the end of the day I'm calling it a success, to be honest I'm amazed that it actually worked on the first try (discounting the grommet/airflow incident) and impressed at how high I can crank it up (another byproduct of the high resistance coil). I found it performed adequately all the way up to 6.0V, but seemed to do best around 5.5V.
Interested to see how this proceeds as I get a little more experience under my belt.
Note: RTD Vape already has a great reputation around here but if you haven't purchased from them yet I will say you would absolutely not be disappointed in doing so. I posted a small unboxing review which can be found in their vendor thread which I would link if I wasn't posting this from my phone.
First coil is still working fine, but I thought I could do better so I had another go. Used a slightly higher gauge needle on this one but only made 7 wraps this time and made them a little tighter. No grommet issues this time and the whole process from start to finish took about half as long as the first coil. This time I hit 2.6Ω right on the head which is right around the resistance of the coils I usually purchase for my Protank (2.5).
Fire test was solid, wicked it and tested for vape. All systems are go. Put it all together and I'm in vape heaven right now. Things can only go up from here!
Fire test was solid, wicked it and tested for vape. All systems are go. Put it all together and I'm in vape heaven right now. Things can only go up from here!
Talkin' about burny grommets…tonight I had a bit of a conundrum.
While spinning off the tail ends in a head rebuild I somehow managed to twirl a kink in the neg hanging tail. When it did snap it left a minuscule remnant that spanned across the grommet to the positive pole!
Naturally I noticed something was wrong when I checked resistance = .10Ω!!!
And I'm lookin' and looking' at this perfect build scratching my head. I can't even try to burn in this coil. Every device I put it on gives me a "No Load". Had i carelessly put this on a mech I would have had my third runaway adventure!
Goes to show no matter how carefully you're building one may always expect the unexpected. I found the error when I finally acknowledged a short should be impossible. That lead me to look for the unusual in the usual and under increased magnification I found it…cut in to the grommet flange itself, buried, in an almost imperceptible slit.
ALWAYS CHECK RESISTANCE.
Good luck all!
It is an old maxim of mine, that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. — Doyle, Sir Arthur Conan, The Sign of Four
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Posted, a burny grommet stop-gap
until such time as Kanger starts selling needed spare parts ???
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...otank-2-replacement-parts-4.html#post11334005
The short I mentioned above was the first replaced. I must be psychic (or lucky).
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...otank-2-replacement-parts-4.html#post11334005
The short I mentioned above was the first replaced. I must be psychic (or lucky).
Popped off another couple of coils tonight. Perfectly consistent now, 1.8, 1.8, 1.8, and so on.
If anyone's curious, 5/64" drill bit, 30AWG kanthal, 8/7 wrap, squeeze, torch, slide it onto a 1/16" drill bit to stabilise while placing it into the head and reinserting the grommet and post. Pop onto mod, pulse, adjust alignment, squeeze if necessary to tighten things up a bit more, and done. My last one took maybe seven or eight minutes.
The worst part is using up stock coils so I can rebuild them. Part of me wants to just take them apart, but they're still serviceable, so I wait until they taste terrible.
Going to enjoy these for the time being before trying 7/6 wrap and seeing how I feel with the lower resistance.
If anyone's curious, 5/64" drill bit, 30AWG kanthal, 8/7 wrap, squeeze, torch, slide it onto a 1/16" drill bit to stabilise while placing it into the head and reinserting the grommet and post. Pop onto mod, pulse, adjust alignment, squeeze if necessary to tighten things up a bit more, and done. My last one took maybe seven or eight minutes.
The worst part is using up stock coils so I can rebuild them. Part of me wants to just take them apart, but they're still serviceable, so I wait until they taste terrible.
Going to enjoy these for the time being before trying 7/6 wrap and seeing how I feel with the lower resistance.
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