I use my unregulated GG devices with happieness, my Tilemahos's sit on Pipelene Pro 2
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Oh behaveLike the rational decision Evolv made of making the pointless DNA200?
With a 18650 or a box a hypothetical VIR v1 could have been bigger, thus easier to manufacture with standard tooling and be earlier on the market. (Which of course helps to finance further development)
Size reduction then comes with the next version, along with other possible updates and refinements, then repeat that until VIR fits into Proteus.
Actually, it's pretty standard to break down a seemingly impossible problem into manageable problems and put everything back together once all the parts are in place.
But, as we know, Imeo choose the hard way and wants to deliver everything at once in a "perfect package", whenever that may be. IMHO this is like inventing the car but keep it back until you can deliver a Tesla
IcyX and I have been chatting about another issue with TC mods (for what we know) none of the current chips take in account the internal resistance of the atomizer.
We could be wrong, of course, but this is our theory:
I have read a lot of people with similar configurations (atomizer ohms, coil material and diameter, watts or joules settings, temperature) having very different vaping experiences, of course, although the configurations could be very similar, a lot of factors are in play.
As we know, due the materials used, design, quality of connections, etc. each atomizer imposes some electrical resistance, normally that resistance is very low (for example, in our rudimentary tests for Tilemahos v1 and v2 the internal resistance is around 0.014 ohms).
Part of a text I wrote at Facebook:
The resistance read by a TC device is a sum of the actual coil resistance plus the resistance imposed by the atomizer itself:
"internal resistance" imposed by the materials of which the atomizer is made of, quality of its electrical connections, etc.
We are talking of very low resistances, but temperature calculations require more precision, in which a value of, for example, 0.016 ohms could be very significant when calculating temperatures by measuring the resistance changes in the coil.
For example, suppose you have the following two configurations:
Atty 1:
Resitance shown when during the "Set Resistance" process: 0.082 ohms
Atty internal resistance: 0.014 ohms
== Actual coil resistance: 0.068 ohms ==
Atty 2:
Resitance shown when during the "Set Resistance" process: 0.082 ohms
Atty internal resistance: 0.023 ohms
== Actual coil resistance: 0.059 ohms ==
As you can see, both atomizers show the same resistance during the "Set Resistance" process, but the actual coil resistances are different, so the temperature calculations are gonna be different in both atomizers.
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SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL) | Page 321 | E-Cigarette Forum
SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL) | Page 321 | E-Cigarette Forum
SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL) | Page 335 | E-Cigarette Forum
SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL) | Page 335 | E-Cigarette Forum
We could be wrong, of course, but this is our theory:
I have read a lot of people with similar configurations (atomizer ohms, coil material and diameter, watts or joules settings, temperature) having very different vaping experiences, of course, although the configurations could be very similar, a lot of factors are in play.
As we know, due the materials used, design, quality of connections, etc. each atomizer imposes some electrical resistance, normally that resistance is very low (for example, in our rudimentary tests for Tilemahos v1 and v2 the internal resistance is around 0.014 ohms).
Part of a text I wrote at Facebook:
The resistance read by a TC device is a sum of the actual coil resistance plus the resistance imposed by the atomizer itself:
"internal resistance" imposed by the materials of which the atomizer is made of, quality of its electrical connections, etc.
We are talking of very low resistances, but temperature calculations require more precision, in which a value of, for example, 0.016 ohms could be very significant when calculating temperatures by measuring the resistance changes in the coil.
For example, suppose you have the following two configurations:
Atty 1:
Resitance shown when during the "Set Resistance" process: 0.082 ohms
Atty internal resistance: 0.014 ohms
== Actual coil resistance: 0.068 ohms ==
Atty 2:
Resitance shown when during the "Set Resistance" process: 0.082 ohms
Atty internal resistance: 0.023 ohms
== Actual coil resistance: 0.059 ohms ==
As you can see, both atomizers show the same resistance during the "Set Resistance" process, but the actual coil resistances are different, so the temperature calculations are gonna be different in both atomizers.
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SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL) | Page 321 | E-Cigarette Forum
SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL) | Page 321 | E-Cigarette Forum
SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL) | Page 335 | E-Cigarette Forum
SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL) | Page 335 | E-Cigarette Forum
larspMuc I couldn't more with you mate, spot on.
Ariel the easy way of getting around this is using Titanium for your coil and using enough turns of it to increase the base resistance of the coil.
Ariel the easy way of getting around this is using Titanium for your coil and using enough turns of it to increase the base resistance of the coil.
As you said Ariel. And Seek is right of course.
Thats why Ni doesnt work on a temp device. Do you remember when I was explaining what is happening with Ni, 6 months ago? I had said that we cant measure these small Ni differences on its resistance and still have right results, when the smallest change in total resistance has a huge effect on the way that device vapes.
Ariel, about your results. Electronics measure the cold resistance well. So its not exactly about the internal resistance of every atomizer but the change of the total resistance when you unscrew the cap of the mod to load a new battery or unscrew and screw again the atomizer for some reason. The resistance changes very little but comparing it with the small resistances of Ni, the difference is so huge that device is totally out of control.
Thats why I choose titanium and I always say that its the only wire that is suitable to vaping. Healthy because its biocompatible, it has excellent temperature coefficient and it has big resistance so we avoid changes on temp when we unscrew the cap to load a new battery on a mod, or unload and load again the atomizer
Also, be sure that temp mods with springs to the negative pole of the battery are not serious temp mods. They are out of temp control.
Thats why Ni doesnt work on a temp device. Do you remember when I was explaining what is happening with Ni, 6 months ago? I had said that we cant measure these small Ni differences on its resistance and still have right results, when the smallest change in total resistance has a huge effect on the way that device vapes.
Ariel, about your results. Electronics measure the cold resistance well. So its not exactly about the internal resistance of every atomizer but the change of the total resistance when you unscrew the cap of the mod to load a new battery or unscrew and screw again the atomizer for some reason. The resistance changes very little but comparing it with the small resistances of Ni, the difference is so huge that device is totally out of control.
Thats why I choose titanium and I always say that its the only wire that is suitable to vaping. Healthy because its biocompatible, it has excellent temperature coefficient and it has big resistance so we avoid changes on temp when we unscrew the cap to load a new battery on a mod, or unload and load again the atomizer
Also, be sure that temp mods with springs to the negative pole of the battery are not serious temp mods. They are out of temp control.
Why doesn't Evolve or any other modded just hire you Imeo? You have basically invented everything in the industry and speak as your the only one in the world that has any knowledge of the industry. My guess is Brandon probably gets a kick out of reading this forum, I know I do. Entertainment at its finest on the net. You people will still be waiting this time next yr and making excuses, but I guess that's ok, it definitely entertains those of us that have been reading GG forums since 2009, same old same old... Laying here hitting my temp devices w/titanium wire and can't stop chuckling... Ps. No dry hits here and don't really care about the ins and outs of the technology, all I know is my vape is superb and guess what, I'm not smoking! Which I did for 17 yrs. Can you feel it slipping away?
If I have to wait until the next century for the VIR/Proteus, I will gladly do that.
Sent from beyond the vaporsphere.
Sent from beyond the vaporsphere.
keep buying devices that dont work as they have to work is your choice rock. Keep spending your money without a reason is your choice too.
Yes, I invent almost everything exept vv-vw and cotton. If you feel bad about this, its your choice too. I cant do something about it.
As for the knowledge on this industry, it seems that I have it and its the right one. People like you speak ironically about me a lot of years now and after some time they support my opinions. Isnt that ironic too ? lol
As for titanium temp devices that you enjoy as you said, remember that titanium is my idea too. If you enjoy these devices, remember that modders based again on me to make them.
(By the way, please vape these devices at 250-280 Celsius degrees when wick is dry and tell me if you still enjoy them).
If you want to support your favorite modder for your own reasons or you want to speak bad about me, please do it outside GG forum. And dont be so jealous because its not good for you and your image. Acting like a child is not what you want to do
Now, you said that you dont care about technology. But it seems you do, that why you buy temp devices. But do you really know if you vape safe? You stopped smoking for health reasons and you want to vape safe for health reasons too. Are you sure that you do that? Or you are the Guinea pig of modders?
Yes, I invent almost everything exept vv-vw and cotton. If you feel bad about this, its your choice too. I cant do something about it.
As for the knowledge on this industry, it seems that I have it and its the right one. People like you speak ironically about me a lot of years now and after some time they support my opinions. Isnt that ironic too ? lol
As for titanium temp devices that you enjoy as you said, remember that titanium is my idea too. If you enjoy these devices, remember that modders based again on me to make them.
(By the way, please vape these devices at 250-280 Celsius degrees when wick is dry and tell me if you still enjoy them).
If you want to support your favorite modder for your own reasons or you want to speak bad about me, please do it outside GG forum. And dont be so jealous because its not good for you and your image. Acting like a child is not what you want to do
Now, you said that you dont care about technology. But it seems you do, that why you buy temp devices. But do you really know if you vape safe? You stopped smoking for health reasons and you want to vape safe for health reasons too. Are you sure that you do that? Or you are the Guinea pig of modders?
Imeo wish you could attend VapeCan and show off the VIR and Proteus we are all looking forward for it's arrival. A safer Vape for everyone could never be a bad thing!
Imeo, I'm acting childish? You just called me a guinea pig? Was that necessary? In fact arnt"t we all guinea pigs? Keep spending my money without reason? Haha, ok, I've been evolving with this industry since 09 and intend to keep doing so, it's evolving faster than ever and I'm enjoying the ride. I don't have a favorite "modder" I buy everything I want as my career allows me to do so, but thanks for your concern. I said I don't care about the "ins and outs" of the technology, not the technology itself. In fact all my temp devices work great and I never get any dry hits, but again thanks for your concern.. I'm not being irrational Imeo, just a potential customer that's tired of coming here to find more excuses as to why your STILL not even in the temp game. But that's ok, I have devices that work, and these company's are working the kinks out, it's only getting better my friend. As always, good luck to you, only wishing you the best! Peace and love my friend.
I'm not happy I'm still waiting on Proteus but if you don't care about it then you don't need to be here. I base this on your inappropriate hypothetical of Brandon reading this and laughing. Should users of this forum do the same thing in the Evolv threads? I don't think it's needed.
Imeo has a different view than most other manufacturers. He wanted to make a really small TC mod that works out of the box even for the most inexperienced user, something that would attract new users and hopefully influence everyone else in the process.
Evolv et al. on the other hand are focused merely on adding more features and more power to their mods, making them even larger, a philosophy that's in complete contrast with Imeo. Good for them.
I don't agree with how Imeo phrases some of his views and because of the delays I've had to resort to a troubled Dicodes mod (which is much better than all current TC mods imho) in the meantime for my vaping purposes. In hindsight, a large 18650 VIR would have been a better initial release but alas it's too late to dwell on past mistakes. In the meantime, I think all of us who are successfully vaping in a TC mod using Ti, should give some credit to Imeo as he is responsible at the very least for spreading the word, with a product that hasn't even yet been released, quite a feat!!!
I want to say something.
I believe imeo wasted his time to make it small. But imeo likes small and he wants to sell small. We cannot argue with him. This issue has to be closed. People are saying he will not sell because it is small. Who cares? He put something in his mind, and a lot of people like small they will buy proteus.
Second, titanium. People stole his titanium idea. This is a fact. I know it for sure because I was here when it happened!
Third VIR has one important feature. It doesn't burn your cotton. With all other devices I am limited with the temperature of cotton burning. But when there is liquid this temperature is not reached. So if I put 500+ on other devices I will always scorch the cotton if not burn it all when liquid is finished.
Therefore with VIR you think about temperature suitable for liquid, with other devices you think about temperature suitable for cotton which is not right.
BUT imeo did a big mistake. He announced VIR too early. He announced titanium too early. Now everyone stole his idea of titanium. This is not right. But imeo you are way behind now. you should have made a version for box mods and released. But this is IMHO, not burning cotton no matter what and using titanium are 2 big inventions that noone can argue against.
I believe imeo wasted his time to make it small. But imeo likes small and he wants to sell small. We cannot argue with him. This issue has to be closed. People are saying he will not sell because it is small. Who cares? He put something in his mind, and a lot of people like small they will buy proteus.
Second, titanium. People stole his titanium idea. This is a fact. I know it for sure because I was here when it happened!
Third VIR has one important feature. It doesn't burn your cotton. With all other devices I am limited with the temperature of cotton burning. But when there is liquid this temperature is not reached. So if I put 500+ on other devices I will always scorch the cotton if not burn it all when liquid is finished.
Therefore with VIR you think about temperature suitable for liquid, with other devices you think about temperature suitable for cotton which is not right.
BUT imeo did a big mistake. He announced VIR too early. He announced titanium too early. Now everyone stole his idea of titanium. This is not right. But imeo you are way behind now. you should have made a version for box mods and released. But this is IMHO, not burning cotton no matter what and using titanium are 2 big inventions that noone can argue against.
Thank you Aal for your pm. You said things are they are
But be sure that I am not behind. I am still in front of the others, because they simply dont make temp control devices. A temp device is a lot more things that keeping temp on a level or stop working when temp reach a point
But be sure that I am not behind. I am still in front of the others, because they simply dont make temp control devices. A temp device is a lot more things that keeping temp on a level or stop working when temp reach a point
I vape with 10440s through 26650s. I love them all, particularly if they're in a stylish tube. I know two things for certain: Proteus will be a very stylish 14500 and the AW 650 mAh 14500 is an awesome little battery. The rest can only be speculation on my part: I believe the implementation of TC on VIR will be unlike any other and will maximize the efficiency and longevity of the 14500 battery. I believe this because Imeo's products usually transform vaping in one way or another.
It makes no sense to me to compare Proteus to anything else or put it on any kind of timeline.
It makes no sense to me to compare Proteus to anything else or put it on any kind of timeline.
I want to say something too.
Admittedly everything you say Aal.
IMEO might have expected to talk about VIR. You could even say nothing to be manufactured. But I for example has helped me to save to get a proteus (this is good for me).
Regarding rock, he says we are guinea pigs but it's not true. I can only talk about Penelope v2 as a product that was not 100% for me, but all other products are tremendous. There are many positive things I can say about Golden Greek, their products are of very good quality, Penelope was the best spray v1 at the time when there were still others on the market. IMEO cares about its customers and listening. And what's most important to me, IMEO has a forum where he speaks about their news and listens to its customers, which other manufacturers do not.
I had tried a Vaporshark and V2 and temperature control was disastrous. Many were defective, this is because not tested before. Then I bought a mini sx, when I received it, it was a very big product in hand and heavy, I do not want that for me, I sold because it is no temperature control. I would like to wait but I wait to buy a product good.
When Proteus-VIR is sold, it is a product with true and good quality control, something that other manufacturers do not.
VIR is an electronic made to be as small as possible, and it is something that has cost so much work took time (I imagine).
VIR can be put in other mods, what manufacturer do that?
I am not rich in money, but I know that I bought.
Greetings friends.
Admittedly everything you say Aal.
IMEO might have expected to talk about VIR. You could even say nothing to be manufactured. But I for example has helped me to save to get a proteus (this is good for me).
Regarding rock, he says we are guinea pigs but it's not true. I can only talk about Penelope v2 as a product that was not 100% for me, but all other products are tremendous. There are many positive things I can say about Golden Greek, their products are of very good quality, Penelope was the best spray v1 at the time when there were still others on the market. IMEO cares about its customers and listening. And what's most important to me, IMEO has a forum where he speaks about their news and listens to its customers, which other manufacturers do not.
I had tried a Vaporshark and V2 and temperature control was disastrous. Many were defective, this is because not tested before. Then I bought a mini sx, when I received it, it was a very big product in hand and heavy, I do not want that for me, I sold because it is no temperature control. I would like to wait but I wait to buy a product good.
When Proteus-VIR is sold, it is a product with true and good quality control, something that other manufacturers do not.
VIR is an electronic made to be as small as possible, and it is something that has cost so much work took time (I imagine).
VIR can be put in other mods, what manufacturer do that?
I am not rich in money, but I know that I bought.
Greetings friends.
I'm currently vaping on an SX Mini M with an Ubertoot UTA2 on top until I can get the Proteus in my hands (the Penelope V4 just felt too small, so it's waiting). I know when the Proteus comes out my pocket will really thank you Imeo. I can slot it into my pocket next to my phone so I don't have to have a whole pocket just for my vape setup.
I'm slowly minimizing my mods. I had Black Roses, Champions, a half dozen Sunboxes of varying types, Famous, and have used a Gepetto Elite V2. I've been around the block. They're all such similar idea that I'm glad someone is doing something small at the start.
Yes Imeo could have started with an 18650 or a box and had his product out there, sure. That could have meant a couple things - his tech just turned into another one of the mass instead of something different or it could have been rushed out and been a mess like the DNA40. We all remember that the DNA40 and the VIR were announced just a few days apart. VIR still isn't out, but Evolv still doesn't have a stable chip. I've been one of the lucky ones to not have a chip that has any issues but almost all of my friends have. Do you know how much of a pain in the ... it is to send something back to Malaysia because the modder couldn't be bothered to test a $650 mod before shipment?
I only jumped onto the Proteus wagon about 8 months ago so I'm not one of those early serial number guys who has been waiting for years. I can understand some people are frustrated. But Imeo's bringing something different to the table here, not a copy of what's already out. There's room in the market for a temp control 14xxx mod. Is there really room for another box? I'm tired of boxes.
I'm slowly minimizing my mods. I had Black Roses, Champions, a half dozen Sunboxes of varying types, Famous, and have used a Gepetto Elite V2. I've been around the block. They're all such similar idea that I'm glad someone is doing something small at the start.
Yes Imeo could have started with an 18650 or a box and had his product out there, sure. That could have meant a couple things - his tech just turned into another one of the mass instead of something different or it could have been rushed out and been a mess like the DNA40. We all remember that the DNA40 and the VIR were announced just a few days apart. VIR still isn't out, but Evolv still doesn't have a stable chip. I've been one of the lucky ones to not have a chip that has any issues but almost all of my friends have. Do you know how much of a pain in the ... it is to send something back to Malaysia because the modder couldn't be bothered to test a $650 mod before shipment?
I only jumped onto the Proteus wagon about 8 months ago so I'm not one of those early serial number guys who has been waiting for years. I can understand some people are frustrated. But Imeo's bringing something different to the table here, not a copy of what's already out. There's room in the market for a temp control 14xxx mod. Is there really room for another box? I'm tired of boxes.
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