Hey all, I just wanted to swing by and say hi to all the experienced vapers out there. I'm a complete beginner and had been smoking for over 10 years now. I've experienced alot of health issues because of it and had come across some videos by Qorax Stan, Ryan Hall, among others. Their videos eventually convinced me to try out vaping... And I just bought my first vaping device yesterday, a Wismec Predator 228. Its really good, I've been loving it so far. I have a question though: I walked into a vape shop today and saw posters about batteries. I heard some stories about batteries exploding some time ago. I just wanted a beginner's guide about batteries, explaining most of the jargon (ohm's law, amps, etc) because I honestly have no idea and I'd like to purchase a charger for my batteries but the posters said something about not exceeding amps and stuff. I wouldn't want to buy a charger that would overcharge or damage my batteries. Sorry if I sound like a complete noob... its because I am. Hoping you guys can help me out with this!
Question about Batteries
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Welcome to ECF! There is no need to apologize--we all started right where you are.
Here's everything you need to know about batteries:
Mooch's blog | E-Cigarette Forum
The thing about the Predator is that it is theoretically capable of 228 Watts, but we don't have 18650 size batteries that are capable of delivering the current (amps) needed to power the mod at that setting. You can still get some nice high wattage performance with the right batteries. A pair of any of the LG HB series will get you around 175-ish Watts, and that's pushing those batteries close to their limit.
It's a good thing that you had the presence of mind to ask. Battery safety is an important issue, especially with mods that take removable batteries.
Hi and welcome. For that mod, buy Samsung 25R or 30Qs, LG HG series or Sony VTC5s or 6s, and don't take it over 120 watts set on the machine. If you have to have more than 120 watts, you need LG HD series or Sony VTC5As up to about 150. For more than that, LG HB series. Here's a good guide to batteries in chart form. And pay careful attention to the blue blocks at the bottom showing reputable suppliers. There are counterfeits out there.
welcome
this is what got me started Choosing the Best 18650 Vape Battery – The Ultimate Guide and I am sure soon the experts will show up and help
this is what got me started Choosing the Best 18650 Vape Battery – The Ultimate Guide and I am sure soon the experts will show up and help
The links others have posted will pretty much cover everything you need to know, but here are a few tips and a pointer on how to approach them.
First, you mentioned Ohm's law. I believe the Predator is a regulated mod. Ohm's law applies to mech mods, so you don't need to worry about it. What you do need to worry about is how to calculate your amp draw on a regulated mod, and this post on Mooch's blog will explain that:
Calculating battery current draw for a regulated mod | E-Cigarette Forum
As you can see, the amps you need will depend on what wattage you're vaping at. Once you figure that out, you can select a recommended battery from the chart @Coastal Cowboy posted. The chart is updated periodically, and you can always find the latest version here (Mooch's blog again):
Mooch's Recommended Batteries | E-Cigarette Forum
One thing you might notice is that even though your mod says it can provide 228 watts, there aren't any batteries that will allow it to do so safely. It's a serious problem in the vaping world.
Another thing you'll notice if you review the chart is that there's a trade-off between CDR and mAh.
CDR - Continuous discharge rating - measured in amps, determines what wattage you can vape at
mAh - millamp hours - more or less determines how long a charge will last before you have to recharge
There's a list of reliable vendors at the bottom of the chart. That's important because counterfeit batteries are a big business. Vape shops, and especially Amazon and Ebay, are full of counterfeits. The vendors on the list test for counterfeits. That doesn't guarantee they'll never get taken in, but it's less common and they're known for doing something about it when they find out they've sold them.
You'll see a lot of battery brands in vape shops that aren't on the chart. That's often because they're rewraps. A company buys batteries from one of the manufacturers (Sony, Samsung or LG) and puts their own wrap and specs on the battery. There are two big problems with this:
About chargers, Xtar, Nitecore and Efest's LUC line are most often recommended as reasonably-priced options with decent performance. You can get fancier chargers, but you won't get much out of them unless you know a bit more about batteries. Note that those three manufacturers also sell batteries - which are rewraps, so avoid them. Their chargers are decent, nonetheless.
Other tips:
And that's all I can think of at the moment, which is probably a good thing as you've asked for tips, not a novel. Oh, welcome to ECF!
First, you mentioned Ohm's law. I believe the Predator is a regulated mod. Ohm's law applies to mech mods, so you don't need to worry about it. What you do need to worry about is how to calculate your amp draw on a regulated mod, and this post on Mooch's blog will explain that:
Calculating battery current draw for a regulated mod | E-Cigarette Forum
As you can see, the amps you need will depend on what wattage you're vaping at. Once you figure that out, you can select a recommended battery from the chart @Coastal Cowboy posted. The chart is updated periodically, and you can always find the latest version here (Mooch's blog again):
Mooch's Recommended Batteries | E-Cigarette Forum
One thing you might notice is that even though your mod says it can provide 228 watts, there aren't any batteries that will allow it to do so safely. It's a serious problem in the vaping world.
Another thing you'll notice if you review the chart is that there's a trade-off between CDR and mAh.
CDR - Continuous discharge rating - measured in amps, determines what wattage you can vape at
mAh - millamp hours - more or less determines how long a charge will last before you have to recharge
There's a list of reliable vendors at the bottom of the chart. That's important because counterfeit batteries are a big business. Vape shops, and especially Amazon and Ebay, are full of counterfeits. The vendors on the list test for counterfeits. That doesn't guarantee they'll never get taken in, but it's less common and they're known for doing something about it when they find out they've sold them.
You'll see a lot of battery brands in vape shops that aren't on the chart. That's often because they're rewraps. A company buys batteries from one of the manufacturers (Sony, Samsung or LG) and puts their own wrap and specs on the battery. There are two big problems with this:
- The specs are often wildly inaccurate.
- Even if they aren't (at the moment), the battery under the wrap can change at any time. Just because your last Efest worked fine doesn't mean the identically-wrapped battery you buy this time will be the same thing.
About chargers, Xtar, Nitecore and Efest's LUC line are most often recommended as reasonably-priced options with decent performance. You can get fancier chargers, but you won't get much out of them unless you know a bit more about batteries. Note that those three manufacturers also sell batteries - which are rewraps, so avoid them. Their chargers are decent, nonetheless.
Other tips:
- Never carry or store a loose battery. Batteries should always be in your mod, in a case or in your charger (and only in your charger when you're actually charging them). Loose batteries tossed in a pocket are a major contributor to the exploding battery phenomenon.
- Check the wrap regularly (the plastic covering the battery). If it gets damaged or nicked, store the battery carefully away from other batteries and anything metal until you can get it rewrapped. It's pretty easy to rewrap batteries yourself, but if you don't want to try it many vape shops offer a rewrapping service.
- Don't use batteries hot off the charger. Let them rest for an hour or so before putting them in your mod.
- If a battery does something weird - gets hot inexplicably, is physically damaged etc., it's best to recycle it rather than risk problems.
And that's all I can think of at the moment, which is probably a good thing as you've asked for tips, not a novel. Oh, welcome to ECF!
Welcome and glad you joined.
I have provided a little more information which might help choosing/evaluating batteries. Thanks to @90VG for heads up.
Might like to read:
18650 Battery Buying Guide for Vapor Users – Wake and Vape Blog
(9) Battery Basics for Mods; the Ultimate Battery Guide | E-Cigarette Forum
Calculating battery current draw for a regulated mod | E-Cigarette Forum
Battery Safety: Will You Marry Me? - Mt Baker Vapor
A Guide to Safe Charging - The Complete Guide to E-Cig Safety
Vaping 101: Battery Safety
Guide to Choosing a Battery Charger | E-Cigarette Forum
Welcome to the forum. You've gotten great info already. Enjoy your vaping journey. Beware of shinyitus. Steel yourself, we are shameless enablers!
@BrotherBob Thanks, I have finger injury and can't type much.
Glad you asked about battery safety. Most people travelling to such high wattages are going to need a 3 or 4 battery setup, which in my mind is overkill. Most people can get a perfectly decent vape at wattages below that high number, and it's easier on the mod, the batteries, and probably your throat and respiratory system as well.
Some mods can be like my car's speedometer. Says it will go up to 200 mph but the advisability of even *trying* that is questionable....
Best of luck digesting all this info. Hope you are able to find a safe, workable solution for yourself...
Anna
Some mods can be like my car's speedometer. Says it will go up to 200 mph but the advisability of even *trying* that is questionable....
Best of luck digesting all this info. Hope you are able to find a safe, workable solution for yourself...
Anna
I disagree about calculating needed battery ratings with regulated mods. You should use what the manufacturer recommends, period. If the manufacturer specifies ratings that are unobtainable, or it doesn't add up, or there is no such specification, you should not use the mod. The one exception is if if you only use the mod at 30% of its power rating or less, you could drop down to a battery with a peak rating rather than continuous meeting the spec, so it won't immediately cause a problem if it somehow draws that much temporarily, since it will never be used like that intentionally.
This is being very cautious. However, the manufacturer is the system integrator and this is the only way to comply at even a minimal level with warnings published by the battery makers that cells should be packaged by system integrators. It's also EASY.
If you want to use lower power batteries, you need a mod with lower ratings. Personally I'd love a mod that is small, economical, TC including SS, and has low enough ratings to use a lower current, higher maH 18650.
This is being very cautious. However, the manufacturer is the system integrator and this is the only way to comply at even a minimal level with warnings published by the battery makers that cells should be packaged by system integrators. It's also EASY.
If you want to use lower power batteries, you need a mod with lower ratings. Personally I'd love a mod that is small, economical, TC including SS, and has low enough ratings to use a lower current, higher maH 18650.
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I have the Joyetech eVic Primo 2.0 and they said use 25a batteries so I went with that, in the end, I had quite a few people tell me that I could get away with 20a and even a few 15 since I am not going to take my mod all the way up to the 228w it says it can pull I have not gone above 70w I stick around 55 (damn you Sammy Hagar you song is now stuck in my head) but I still stick with the 25a so I do not void my warranty and when I get the Steampunk mod (thanks again Anna for making my wish list grow) I will go with what they recommend. I really think that should be a factor when you pick your batteries, could this void the warranty? I am sure people will disagree with me on that but that is just the way I see it.
I don't think it would void your warranty, I mean they have no way to "prove" what battery was in there when difficulties started. With that being said, I see no reason NOT to use what batteries manufacturers recommend in a particular mod (gosh, I didn't know they did that) with that said, if you are vaping way lower watts, there is no reason to not use slightly lower rated batteries, since you won't be overstressing them. With that said, no reason not to use HIGHER rated batteries, either, I mean, the worst that can happen is that you'll enjoy longer battery life using lower wattages.... I just make sure I'm running the right size, and safe batteries. I use LGs and I've been consistently happy with them.
While I understand that battery makers are trying to create increasingly powerful batteries, as long as you are happy with your mod's performance and not doing anything crazy with them, I'd think one would ultimately be fine, but if you want to go with the mod maker's recommendation, that's also probably fine. The issues lie with OVER-stressing a battery, not under-stressing one. I don't need more powerful battery life than I get, but of late I've been running the steampunk at an All-powerful 7 watts, so if my batteries blow up, I'm going to be confused. I did hit it once (by accident) thinking I'd gone down to 6.5 watts instead of spiraling around to 120 watts, so I know (unhappily, I was taking a long, slow priming puff) that my mod can fire at its high wattage, and with a coil rated around 10--15 watts, I also know that overpowering your coils is a bad plan. Worst e-cig hit I've ever experienced...
Anna
While I understand that battery makers are trying to create increasingly powerful batteries, as long as you are happy with your mod's performance and not doing anything crazy with them, I'd think one would ultimately be fine, but if you want to go with the mod maker's recommendation, that's also probably fine. The issues lie with OVER-stressing a battery, not under-stressing one. I don't need more powerful battery life than I get, but of late I've been running the steampunk at an All-powerful 7 watts, so if my batteries blow up, I'm going to be confused. I did hit it once (by accident) thinking I'd gone down to 6.5 watts instead of spiraling around to 120 watts, so I know (unhappily, I was taking a long, slow priming puff) that my mod can fire at its high wattage, and with a coil rated around 10--15 watts, I also know that overpowering your coils is a bad plan. Worst e-cig hit I've ever experienced...
Anna
But what if the people with the foil hats are right and they can see everything you do
sorry I had toI'm a trained therapist, I can usually inject some reason into conversational material with them. It's not hard, you agree with the craziness, distract, return, agree slightly less with the craziness, distract, return, etc., it's a long process and it takes a lot of effort, but it's totally doable.
I've had plenty of experience doing that with my fine schizophrenic friends who show up (or are carted to) the ER. Then, the nurse comes in, ruins it all, and claims the foil-hat person threatened to assault them, and security comes in while the nurse happily "administers" an Ativan-Haldol shot, and you have to start all over once the person comes "to" as it were. Nurses can be so unkind to MI patients and SA patients...
LOL, one time my mom, who has interstitial cystitis (a horrible bladder condition) had to cart me to the ER after a really bad allergic reaction to Quinoa and there was a tragically drunk dude in the next door "room" and the nurses couldn't get him to pee for a blood alcohol level. The nurses were arguing about who got to "cath" him, the nurse who'd been attending to him stated, "Oh no... that pleasure is going to be ALL mine," and went for it. My poor mom was WINCING, she's been cathed many times before. I explained to her that said drunk was clearly in a total blackout and wouldn't remember it, but it didn't seem to cheer her up much.
Tales like these are why I hate many nurses-- you get so burned out you're fighting over who gets to inflict pain on a drunk? You shouldn't be working that job...
But my point is the foil hat people are generally less of a threat to you than you are to them. If you're talking about the government or an FBI agent or even VENDORS? I rather think they have more things to worry about than what battery you are putting in your ecig.
Sorry, I had to.
Anna
I've had plenty of experience doing that with my fine schizophrenic friends who show up (or are carted to) the ER. Then, the nurse comes in, ruins it all, and claims the foil-hat person threatened to assault them, and security comes in while the nurse happily "administers" an Ativan-Haldol shot, and you have to start all over once the person comes "to" as it were. Nurses can be so unkind to MI patients and SA patients...
LOL, one time my mom, who has interstitial cystitis (a horrible bladder condition) had to cart me to the ER after a really bad allergic reaction to Quinoa and there was a tragically drunk dude in the next door "room" and the nurses couldn't get him to pee for a blood alcohol level. The nurses were arguing about who got to "cath" him, the nurse who'd been attending to him stated, "Oh no... that pleasure is going to be ALL mine," and went for it. My poor mom was WINCING, she's been cathed many times before. I explained to her that said drunk was clearly in a total blackout and wouldn't remember it, but it didn't seem to cheer her up much.
Tales like these are why I hate many nurses-- you get so burned out you're fighting over who gets to inflict pain on a drunk? You shouldn't be working that job...
But my point is the foil hat people are generally less of a threat to you than you are to them. If you're talking about the government or an FBI agent or even VENDORS? I rather think they have more things to worry about than what battery you are putting in your ecig.
Sorry, I had to.
Anna
And if you do get a damaged battery best buy recycles them free of charge
Found a ran over tar covered dented samsung30q outside by my car asked my vape shop what to do they said best buy so plastic bag hard plastic box it went into and dropped off it went
Found a ran over tar covered dented samsung30q outside by my car asked my vape shop what to do they said best buy so plastic bag hard plastic box it went into and dropped off it went
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