Question for the Chemistry Geeks.

[ronchinoy]

Yes did search. Yes read all the stickeys.

No Im not USA based. So most of what has been recommended purchase options are not open to me due to location.

This pertains to VG.
With so many types out there. Would it not be simple to just submit a sample to a lab. And they will come back saying this is the chemical composition of the liquid.

My problem is that I have not been able to find a clear answer to what is the Chemical composition for say Dow USP grade Glycerine. What is the Chemical Composition for a Vegetable based VG.

PG is very simple. It has one chemical composition. Which does not change. So no confusion there.
Once the right Chemical composition is known then its just a matter of purity.

Questions I had. Which did google and the answers where still confusing.

a. What is the difference between Glycerine and Glycerol.
Google says both are the same. Or very pure Glycerine is called Glycerol.
WHat is your take.

b. When looking up for Chemical compositions of various VGs the following where found.
Which would be safe to vape and which not why ?.

1.CH2OH.CHOH.CH2
2. c3h8o3
3. c3h8o2
4. C3H5(OH)3
Source http://www.livestrong.com/article/67631-pure-glycerin-oil/


All 3 are called and sold as USP grade Glycerin in different parts of the world.
Google says all 3 are Glycerine or Glycerol. And Glycerol is supposed to be super pure Glycerine.

What is the safest chemical composition we should be looking for.

c. Lastly. VG is used to make soap right ?. What is the process. Is it possible that some of the flavors used can over time turn VG into soap. Hence the Soapy taste. If this is the case i.e. we use an acid or an alkaline substance with VG to make soap. We then just take it in the opposite direction to make sure it wont make soap or turn into soap.

 

[Heabob]

Not sure about the process but some are made from different base.

Soy Base (GMO)(Considered less safe)
Palm Oil Base (better)
Coconut Oil Base (even better yet)
? Synthetic (supposed to be the purest form)

Just what I've learned from reading about it.

Actually I thought some VG was the by-product from making soap?

 

[ronchinoy]

I can get get over 32 types of VG. And I can get them all to a lab and get the chemical name.
But still no where no knowing which is best. Ive just scrapped a complete months worth of DIY thanks to this confusion.
Ive been told the Synthetic one which every here calls the best is the CH2OH.CHOH.CH2

Over here I read the best purest form is
C3H5(OH)3
Source Smart Shopping for Metabolism Diet Foods | LIVESTRONG.COM

This shouldn't be so hard. Will have one of my Chemistry buddies answer it in a day or two.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

It's really not that hard. Seems like you are really overthinking this. I get my VG & PG from Essential Depot and have been very pleased.
http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-218/1-Gallon-Veg-Glycerin/Detail

Cheers,
Steve

 

[ronchinoy]

Thank you for that link.
But if you read this
http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/msds glycerin kosher food grade.pdf

Its not something I would vape. They clearly state this should not be inhaled. And what complications can arise from accidental inhalation.

Its clearly states its only food grade.

I think people are not thinking their choices thru about what they are vaping.

Also Im not in your country sir. Maybe you didn't notice that.

Maybe Im not the one over thinking. This. Just that others are under thinking it.

 

[Dougiestyle]

As a former smoker, who introduced thousands of chemicals into his/her body with every puff of a lit cigarette, it is honorable that you're concerned with the sterilization of the substances that you introduce to your body. None the less, it is safe to say that vaporized USP VG is 99% safer to inhale than a lit tobacco cigarette, no matter the base chemical make-up. USP is generally regarded as safe.

No, the "perfumey/soapy" taste does not come from VG. That is a contribution of the flavors that are added. Some are uber stong and take time to mellow. VG has a sweetness, but remains unflavored.

There are US vendors who ship overseas, so please calm down if someone suggests a US vendor. Essential Depot is a retailer for Amazon.com and should ship to India, also.

 

[ronchinoy]

It's really not that hard. Seems like you are really overthinking this. I get my VG & PG from Essential Depot and have been very pleased.
http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-218/1-Gallon-Veg-Glycerin/Detail

Cheers,
Steve

Thank you for that link.
But if you read this
http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/msds glycerin kosher food grade.pdf

Its not something I would vape. They clearly state this should not be inhaled. And what complications can arise from accidental inhalation.

Its clearly states its only food grade.

I think people are not thinking their choices thru about what they are vaping.

Also Im not in your country sir. Maybe you didn't notice that.

Maybe Im not the one over thinking. This. Just that others are under thinking it.

 

[ronchinoy]

sorry about the double post. My ADD is acting up lol.

#doogiestyle.

I don't buy the excuse that vaping anything is better than smoking. At least with smoking I knew what I was getting.
This is the wild wild west. It took me 2 months to figure out the juice I was sucking on was 100% PG and was causing the skin rash and breathing problems. Which is why I went DIY.

Ive had bad days on analogues. Times when I was doing 30+ a day. But nothing as bad as how I felt on the 100% PG china stuff. Kept putting it down to the medication I was on post my heart attack (Just aspirin lol).

 

[Dougiestyle]

Science has proven that vaping is 99% safer that smoking #truevapingfacts.

Having vaped for over 3 years, I can attest to the benefits of vaping to my health.

You seem to like debate, but go about your stance with an agressive undertone. You get more bees with honey. Lighten up. It will serve you better. Play nice or pay the price.

ETA: Apparently, admin cleaned some posts from the thread that I was referencing in my last statement. Good work, ECF.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

On the bottle it's clearly labeled as USP. For marketing sake any USP can also be labeled as food grade and machinery grade but not the other way around.

 

[Zurd]

I don't buy the excuse that vaping anything is better than smoking.

Same for me! Of course vaping is better, but it's not an excuse to just vape and not ask questions. The difference with smoking is that now we know a lot more what are the ingredients that we consume and we can even make it ourselves.

However USP VG should be quite safe whatever the composition, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Exchaner]

Science has proven that vaping is 99% safer that smoking #truevapingfacts.

99% ? You must have been reading some of those pseudo scientists found everywhere I look ...

As for the safety and purity of VG, this sticky explains some of the issues. Apparently some VG is produced from a plant that contains trace amounts of toxins.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html

Essential Depot claims their VG is not derived from that plant. But at the same time they refuse to supply a MSDS data sheet on their product.

 

[Alto101]

I have seen 98% to 99% risk reduction and I realize that any hard numbers will take a long time to solidify due to the need for long-term studies which obviously will not be done anytime soon. The studies will have a difficult time in assessing the true risks of only vaping as the majority of the participants will be ex-smokers who caused at least some damage to their bodies prior to switching to vaping (that is my opinion, perhaps with advanced analysis they will be able to isolate only the effects of vaping?).

What is your opinion about the reduction in harm from switching to vaping? 50%, 75%, 90% ?

My personal opinion is that the harm reduction is significant enough that the remaining risks are lower than many other elements of life (eating processed foods, red meat, FDA approved medications to name a few).

99% ? You must have been reading some of those pseudo scientists found everywhere I look ...

As for the safety and purity of VG, this sticky explains some of the issues. Apparently some VG is produced from a plant that contains trace amounts of toxins.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html

Essential Depot claims their VG is not derived from that plant. But at the same time they refuse to supply a MSDS data sheet on their product.

 

[Exchaner]

What is your opinion about the reduction in harm from switching to vaping? 50%, 75%, 90% ?

It's hard to compare the risk between two different methods of inhaling - especially in terms of percentages. Each has their own unique disadvantages. Vaping obviously has the advantage of eliminating the tar found in cigarettes. But it has other hazards gradually coming to light. I am told each flavor we vape contains hundreds of chemicals. A simple flavor like strawberry for instance contains three hundred of them!! What do those chemical morph into when heated several degrees? We don't know. I learned for example that my leg cramps were caused by dehydration from vaping too much pg - from this thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ery-serious-serious-painful-consequences.html

On the subject of vapers being primarily ex-smokers, I hear some kids are now skipping smoking and going straight into vaping. We therefore might see a future population of vapers who have never smoked before.

 

[Hoosier]

OP is looking for a chemistry geek. While I am a geek, I'm not a chemistry geek so I have not replied to date.

I wonder if our resident chemists don't consider themselves geeks and therefore have not replied?

Geek has a long history as a derogatory term. Not everyone has embraced it as something other than a derision like many folks in the US have with the term Yankee. (Yankee was a term meant to insult the colonists and some folks still use Yank to mean the same thing, but most folks here think just means someone from north of the Mason-Dixon line now days.)

As for the OP's concerns, if you cannot find any satisfaction with the pharmaceutical (USP or BP) grades, then look for a chemical lab supply that sells reagent glycerin. It will be sold and priced based solely on purity. The highest would be a testing standard purity which I've seen go to darn near $100 a ml here in the US.
Sent by big fingers on a tiny phone via Tapatalk

 

[Exchaner]

Sorry Hoosier, I have trouble keeping my mouth shut