Question for those who think we should not vape where we can not smoke...

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Myrany

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I don't hide my vaping. I don't vape where it is posted or I have been told not to. If I am with a group of people I ask if it bothers them and abide by their decision (courtesy).

The ones I just will never understand are the ones who vape somewhere. Are told it is not allowed. Then they proceed to stealth vape because they know they can get away with it and call it civil disobedience. That is not civil disobedience. That is a nya nya to the person who told them no. If it was civil disobedience they would not be stealthing. Even Ghandi knew an act of defiance means nothing if the powers that be never notice.
 

EddardinWinter

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Fair enough, and I'm not criticising you for posting the thread (despite my jab at how much fun Edd seems to have crying "Straw man!" every time I open my mouth... :) )

I'm sure they do exist, and I think it's an attitude that warrants discussion.

But I also think most of the time people say that we should only vape where smoking is permitted they're speaking imprecisely; using it as a kind of short-hand to mean they don't vape in places where it isn't permitted (at work, on the bus, etc etc...)

I can't speak for them, obviously. But it strikes me that I've never seen someone formulate it as precisely as "Even if I'm allowed to vape somewhere public, I won't", which indicates to me that not many actually think that (or if they do, they're very shy about thinking it, as well as their vaping...)

That is unfair. I have not accused you of it (prior to my last post) in a month or so...
 

WattWick

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I just don't think that people should vape where food is prepared, consumed or sold. With the exception of pubs and bars. I certainly don't think anyone should be prevented from vaping in any outdoor public arena. I am all for being polite, but I'm also all for not being stigmatized and ending up like the smokers... where it's socially acceptable to cuss them out in public and expect the "crowd to roar". Seems like a lot of people see smokers as a great way to vent their general frustrations with people that don't live life the way they want them to. And, it's gotten to a point where it's perfectly acceptable to treat smokers like Pariahs. I'm not having any of that.

I think our main problem is that the ANTZ are in panic mode. They're trying to make as many anti-smoking rules apply to vaping before it gets so mainstream that Average Joe realizes it's way better for everyone if people switched to vaping. In a way... shoot the messenger before he/she even gets to the town gates.
 
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Tinkiegrrl

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I'm sorry, but I find the assertion that second hand smoke isn't dangerous is shaky at best. Most research done on the subject that found it to be not harmful was conducted by scientists who have ties to the tobacco industry. An industry, by the way, who would also love to see us e-cig users banished 20 feet away from every entrance to every building along with smokers. I get that scientists are not immune to what the guy holding the purse strings wants, but that goes both ways. Both scientists hired by the EPA and those who are affiliated with Big Tobacco. One of those scientists quoted in that article was in fact cited by the courts as being part of those who worked with Big Tobacco on hiding any findings that second hand smoke was harmful.

That said, while I recognize that there are possible dangers to bystanders in regards to second hand smoke in inclosed spaces, I do not necessarily agree with smoking bans in open areas such as parks and beaches. First, because there is no scientific evidence suggesting that exposure to second hand smoke outdoors is enough to pose a danger and second, because these bans are unenforceable and are therefore a waste in recources that could be better spent elsewhere. Outdoors means that smoke dissapates before anyone can prove anything. Those bans are merely paying lip service to zealots.

One could argue that bans on smoking indoors lead down the slippery sloap to bans on smoking outdoors, and I'd agree. Zealots jumped the gun, and created laws that were clearly not founded in science in that regard and I'll happily fight any bans on outdoor smoking. I won't fight the ones for indoor smoking though. It makes zero sense in my mind why there are those on either side of this battle that can't see that line in the middle. Why it needs to be all or nothing. While a smoker has the right to bodily autonomy and therefore should have the right to smoke, they should not have the right to take the decision of being exposed to something scientifically proven to be a carcinogen from someone else. To allow smokers to smoke indoors in all public venues strips those who do not wish to be exposed of their right not to be. Even the argument that they can choose not to go into such an establishment falls short when we start talking of hospitals, court houses etc, where people often have no choice but to go.

As for vaping, there is no scientific evidence of any harm being done to anyone. Therefore, any laws or regulations created with vaping in mind should not be based on smoking. These are two separate things and one is not the same as the other, I don't care what the cloud looks like. So, I'll vape where I damn well please. That should not and does not mean anything about my stance on second hand smoke. I see no benefit to tying vaping to smoking, and insisting to fight this battle while including smoking bans I think will only solidify the idea that vaping is dangerous in the minds of the uninformed. In my mind, these are two completely separate battles and I think we'd benefit more by encouraging others to separate the two, not meld them together.
 

dr g

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While I do appreciate the outrage over increasingly draconian anti-smoking laws, I have also seen policies get changed to ban vaping because people drew attention to their activity by vaping in what I would consider inappropriate situations (meetings, for example).

The political climate right now is dangerous regarding ecigarettes, we don't hold that strong of a hand just yet. So I'd say discretion is advised. Aim your shots.
 

tj99959

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    I would like to believe you, and the questions I posed are not about decisions made by any given business, but...

    Every time I get involved in one of these threads about where we should and should not vape, I find people saying we should not vape where we can not smoke.
    Not just a few people, but lots and lots of them, and more and more every day.

    And in most of those threads I post these same questions, and strangely, no one ever answers them.
    So I am posting them again here, in their own thread for all to see.

    I want to find out what these people have to say about these questions.
    I want to find out if they care, and if so what they intend to do about it other than rolling over and letting "them" screw us once again.

    I say that because where I live IT'S THE LAW, and there is a difference between working to change a law, and breaking the law.
    Yes I'm old fashioned, and we do not have the right to pick & choose which laws we will obey. We do however have the right challenge any law that we find unjust. Our court systems gives us the ability to do that.
     

    imdeskman

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    I am over security at a large outdoor sporting event. This year they ban smoking and e-cigs in the stands. I ask why e-cigs were ban and they felt that people that were not smoking would see the smoke from e-cigs and believe people were smoking. Smokers would think the rules were not being enforced and start smoking. They also thought non smokers would complain to security that e-cig people were smoking and we would spend most of our time going up and down the stands checking it out. In other words it would be a big hassle.
     

    vaperature

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    I just like to vape and mostly just vape at home. I have no desire to mix politics in with my private hobby / activity. I just want to enjoy it. If I felt by vaping I was upsetting anyone, even if that reaction was unreasonable, I wouldn't enjoy it. So all these proposed laws don't worry me in the slightest. There are other laws that could be enacted and existing laws that could be enforced that would really put a damper on the entire vaping industry. These are the ones that I'm really worried about. I won't go into detail about them here because I'd hate to give any lurking politician any ideas. But if someone tells me I can't vape here or there, so what. Chances are I'd never vape there in the first place anyway and to be honest, I haven't found nicotine to be THAT addictive where I'd have to stand my ground and start vaping somewhere where it would be frowned upon.
     

    Underwhelmed

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    I just like to vape and mostly just vape at home. I have no desire to mix politics in with my private hobby / activity. I just want to enjoy it. If I felt by vaping I was upsetting anyone, even if that reaction was unreasonable, I wouldn't enjoy it. So all these proposed laws don't worry me in the slightest. There are other laws that could be enacted and existing laws that could be enforced that would really put a damper on the entire vaping industry. These are the ones that I'm really worried about. I won't go into detail about them here because I'd hate to give any lurking politician any ideas. But if someone tells me I can't vape here or there, so what. Chances are I'd never vape there in the first place anyway and to be honest, I haven't found nicotine to be THAT addictive where I'd have to stand my ground and start vaping somewhere where it would be frowned upon.
    Exactly they way I see it as well, CJLarity.
     

    Sucker_dad

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    Yes I fully agree. With reference to the squeaking sounds made by the little-mouse vapers. :D

    Everyone looks at the world with different eyes. What you find important is not so important to others.
    I agree that vapers should not be vanquished to the nether regions that smokers have been. I also firmly believe that people walking around an indoor mall vaping away is detrimental to the cause.
     

    holy_handgrenade

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    I'm prepared to fight and advocate awareness of vaping. However, I do advocate that we look at where smoking was allowed in 1990 and restore those areas to vaping; so bars, nightclubs, restraunts, coffee shops, parks, beaches, shopping malls (outside of stores, in mall area only or in designated sections)

    I do personally think that regardless of regulations, we'll see private entities step in and say it's not ok to vape in some businesses, such as retail stores, grocery stores, department stores, movie theatres, banks, gov offices, etc. It should be ok to vape if not inside a hospital, at least outside, since the health reasons concerning smoking bans are non-existent. Even workplaces, it's been a good 20-30 years since it was acceptable to smoke while working - so I imagine many workplaces will develop policies as needed.
     
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