FDA Rant

[LittleBird]

My understanding is that it means packaged up and sold to the end user.

In other words, someone selling nicotine base to an eliquid maker is not selling a finished product. The eliquid maker would be selling the "finished" tobacco product after making his eliquid with that base and packaging up for sale to the consumer. But that same person selling nicotine base directly to the consumer is selling a finished tobacco product.

Thanks, DC2. Perhaps that's what it means. The phrase "finished tobacco product" doesn't seem to be a defined term. I'll keep looking; it must be in there, somewhere. (She said, dripping sarcasm.) Have I mentioned how fond I am of FDA, these days?

ETA: More research indicates that "finished tobacco product" contrasts with "component," along the lines of your understanding, @DC2. Components aren't defined, per se, but there are several examples peppered throughout the regs. Components seem to include atomizers, coils, vials, etc. Attys, huh? So this suggests that FDA enforcement efforts, at this time, will focus on underage sales, juice "safety" (e.g., child proof caps), and ENDS, but not their components.

The beauty of rabbit holes...

 

[choochoogranny]

Wouldn't a "finished product" be one where all components are put together including eliquid, and all you have to do is press the button to vape? Otherwise, they're all components......but still "tobacco" as long as the component can be used to vape?

 

[mightymen]

Resolve.

This is only a bump in the road most vapors have already taken matters in to their own hands. Stocking up on essentials. I see a growing community of DIY vapors fighting injustice, finding new ways to overcome FDR.

If nothing else I earned from ECF is that we ALL share what we learn.

 

[mightymen]

Not sure where the rumor started that tobacco products can not be mailed through USPS but, not true. Cigarettes are restricted but not prohibited. No law against mailing tobacco products. The restrictions specifically cover rolled and loose leaf tobacco cigarettes.
Shipping Restrictions | USPS

Be sure to read the definition of tobacco that is restricted

Right I just got a LB of RYO natural PIPE tobacco (There are no additives or flavorings in this blend) delivered today by USPS. No am not smoking it tying my hand at extracts.

47 Cigarettes and Smokeless Tobacco
471 Definitions
47 Cigarettes and Smokeless Tobacco | Postal Explorer

 

[DC2]

Wouldn't a "finished product" be one where all components are put together including eliquid, and all you have to do is press the button to vape? Otherwise, they're all components......but still "tobacco" as long as the component can be used to vape?

Do you mean "logically speaking" or using FDA deeming speak?


As far as I can tell, a "finished" tobacco product according to the deeming...
Is one that is packaged, marketed, and sold directly to the end consumer...

So the same product can be a component or a finished tobacco product.
The difference seems to lie in whom it is sold to.

At least that's how I read it.
:shrug:

 

[choochoogranny]

Thank you, DC2. Another thing the government does badly.

 

[LittleBird]

Do you mean "logically speaking" or using FDA deeming speak?


As far as I can tell, a "finished" tobacco product according to the deeming...
Is one that is packaged, marketed, and sold directly to the end consumer...

So the same product can be a component or a finished tobacco product.
The difference seems to lie in whom it is sold to.

At least that's how I read it.
:shrug:

It's just a cruel joke. Jam tomorrow, jam yesterday, but never jam today. Rarely do I swear. the FDA.

 

[razberrydazzle]

Oh shoot. I just did my rant on the FDA Johnson thread. Ok I really dislike the position they put us in. My god I quit smoking after 46 years and this is what we have come to? Even tried Chantix which almost put me in the Acorn suite. Now I have to DIY. I make the crappiest vape.absolutely tasteless and BORING! Ugh I just want choices.

I totally agree with you about chantix. My experience was ZERO emotion and a blank stare. The weird part was that I was totally able to function at work like this. However, it creeped my boss and co workers out : /

 

[Sewnmachine]

Chantix worked for me both times I used it. It helped me quit cigarettes for 5 years, and then again for 3 years. It was rough going for about the first 3 weeks, but it was the ONLY method that got me to quit. Then one day as I was cleaning my house for Thanksgiving I found an old, stale, nasty cigarette in the couch cushions. Of course I lit it up....thinking....I haven't smoked in 3 years.....I can smoke just this one.....WRONG. I'm like an alcoholic - I can't have just one. So, I was hooked again. Fortunately along came e-cigs. I started with Greensmoke cig-a-likes. Ugh. Then used KR808's and cartomizers for a long time. Much better. And now I'm just using eGo 900mah and clearomizers. It works for me. And now with these FDA reg's comin down, I'm stock piling supplies. Actually hoarding supplies now. Whatever.

 

[jjcordone]

"For USA customers, the xxxxx was released after the Deeming Day (August 8, 2016). We cannot sell this device to USA, please be attention."

I just saw this phrase with a product on one of my favorite China sites.
So many new devices were pushed into the market to beat the deadline that I had almost forgot what the FDA has done to us.

Grim reminder that the vaping industry will continue to progress forward in the rest of the world, while we stand still in the USA.

 

[Foggy Road]

"For USA customers, the xxxxx was released after the Deeming Day (August 8, 2016). We cannot sell this device to USA, please be attention."

I just saw this phrase with a product on one of my favorite China sites.
So many new devices were pushed into the market to beat the deadline that I had almost forgot what the FDA has done to us.

Grim reminder that the vaping industry will continue to progress forward in the rest of the world, while we stand still in the USA.

Just saw that same notice myself. Gonna see it a lot more before this is all done I suppose.

 

[zoiDman]

"For USA customers, the xxxxx was released after the Deeming Day (August 8, 2016). We cannot sell this device to USA, please be attention."

I just saw this phrase with a product on one of my favorite China sites.
So many new devices were pushed into the market to beat the deadline that I had almost forgot what the FDA has done to us.

Grim reminder that the vaping industry will continue to progress forward in the rest of the world, while we stand still in the USA.

Which Site did you see this on?

Link?

 

[zoiDman]

Just saw that same notice myself. Gonna see it a lot more before this is all done I suppose.

Unfortunately, I believe you are Correct.

 

[zoiDman]

Which Site did you see this on?

Link?

Never Mind. I Found it.

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For USA customers, the PockeX Pocket was released after the Deeming Day (August 8, 2016). We cannot sell this device to USA, please be attention.

 

[wiredlove]

"For USA customers, the xxxxx was released after the Deeming Day (August 8, 2016). We cannot sell this device to USA, please be attention."

I just saw this phrase with a product on one of my favorite China sites.
So many new devices were pushed into the market to beat the deadline that I had almost forgot what the FDA has done to us.

Grim reminder that the vaping industry will continue to progress forward in the rest of the world, while we stand still in the USA.

Luckily they aren't the only site in China. That said, it does serve to show what the future may hold in store for us. :/

I almost feel like ordering one and having it sent directly to good ole Mitch.

 

[retired1]

Problem is, if more shipments get seized/rejected, more sites outside of the US will follow suit and pretty stop all shipments to US addresses.

The majority of e-liquid manufacturers in the US have adopted that policy with Canada. With customs seizing e-liquids on a regular basis, most just refuse to ship to Canada now.

 

[wiredlove]

Problem is, if more shipments get seized/rejected, more sites outside of the US will follow suit and pretty stop all shipments to US addresses.

The majority of e-liquid manufacturers in the US have adopted that policy with Canada. With customs seizing e-liquids on a regular basis, most just refuse to ship to Canada now.

Which is hilarious since, while vacationing there last year, I brought in about half a liter of my diy mix in what essentially looks like shampoo bottles. Along with 3 regulated and 2 mechanical mods. I was even detained at the border and had my car searched.

 

[jjcordone]

"Self-imposed Vaping Embargo" would be a more realistic term than deeming regulations. I'll bet $10 the FDA will embrace the new heat not burn cigarettes that big tobacco is about unleash on us. Kill vaping and introduce Big Tobacco's new product that saves the tobacco industry and protects the tax revenue. The rich get richer........

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

Which is hilarious since, while vacationing there last year, I brought in about half a liter of my diy mix in what essentially looks like shampoo bottles. Along with 3 regulated and 2 mechanical mods. I was even detained at the border and had my car searched.

We're not exactly what you'd call strict on the vape policing here in the frozen north. Juice seizures are not rampant (never had a problem via post or UPS, myself) and mods are perfectly fine for importation. Batteries, though, are comparatively iffy.

We can walk down any street, vaping to our heart's content, without fear of being stopped for questioning, let alone having our stuffs confiscated. There are also B&M's on every third corner in the neighbourhood I work in openly selling imported juice and gear. I had to wait in line behind a cop at one (he's apparently a MBV Hawk Sauce man, if you must know).

I think the fact that we have a small population stretched across a very large country helps the cause - there simply isn't the budget or manpower to police anything thoroughly. Given the things you can buy on most any street corner in the city, I'm thinking vaping is kinda low on the to-do list for both beat cops and customs officials alike.

 

[Smoke_too_much]

Eww245: Anyone with CNN HLN - tune in and watch the way its being presented - no details except the "it's to protect the children" crap.
Unbelievably inaccurate reporting - the media is completely ignoring the fact that today is the beginning of the end of an entire industry as the FDA gifts the ecig market to BT.

Well if you are going to listen to DNN (Democratic Nat'l News) and can get anything out of it besides the fact you shouldn't vote for Trump, what really do you expect. I can't stand listening to them any more, I've actually just given up on news in the morning as I prefer to sit out back and vape while contemplating life.