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Raptor Flip-Top VV Mod with 20A, 120W dc/dc converter...

Discussion in 'Battery Mods' started by mamu, Jan 3, 2014.

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  1. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    IN USA
    Features:
    Naos Raptor 20A, 120W dc/dc converter
    output voltage range 3.3v to 6v
    external 18A fuse
    external zener diode for low voltage cutoff of 6v
    external 2x22uF input capacitors
    dual 18650 batts

    This Raptor mod definitely has become my fave mod since getting it done last week - most power packed awesome vape beast I've made to date!

    It does hit hard for the voltage. I usually vape my 1.5 ohm dual coil RBA at around 5.1v and sometimes a little higher, but I get a comparable hit at 4.7v with this mod. When I took that first hit dialed in at 5.1v, I almost choked. holy moly I thought, so I dialed it down to where I get the same hit I'm used to. Same with the 0.8 ohm nano coil RDA - I had to dial that down too.

    During testing I attached a 0.3 ohm coil and ran it at 5v (83W and 17A) and both converter and batts (30A Sony 18650) handled the load aok - and no, didn't take a toke off that. :blink:

    The batts I've tested with this mod are the Sony 18650 30A, Orbtronic 18650 30A, the Efest 18650 30A, and the MNKE 18650 30A batts. I have the LG LGDAHE21865 2500mAh 30A batts (13mOhm internal resistance) on order and will be testing with those when I get them.

    The LG batts may change this, but so far the Sony batt is far superior to all that I've tested. It has the lowest internal resistance (12mOhm) of all the 30A 18650 batts and handles the load both input and output without so much as a blink all the way down to cutoff voltage of 6.2v unloaded (6v loaded).

    The Orbtronic (19mOhm internal resistance) gave hiccups around 6.6 volts and cut out at 6.5v unloaded (dropped to 6v loaded). With its higher mAh vs the Sony mAh, it did give a long vape time before cutting out, but that higher internal resistance is a hindrance.

    Both the Efest and MNKE had horrible horrible input/ouput voltage drops under load and cut out around 6.8v-6.9v unloaded (dropped to 6v loaded). I wouldn't recommend either of those batts for use in our mods.

    Input voltage drop varies between 0.1v - 0.2v with the Sony batts and 0.2v - 0.5v with the Orbtronic batts.

    Output voltage drop varies between 0.0v - 0.1v with the Sony batts and 0.1v - 0.3v with the Orbtronic batts.

    All done and getting ready to close er up...
    [​IMG]

    Takes 2, 18650 batts... yes - the batts are in series ;) - I wired the batt contacts so both batts are oriented the same way... no confusion with which batt goes up and which batt goes down especially since both batt holders are marked with + at the top and - at the bottom...
    [​IMG]

    Displays input voltage...
    [​IMG]

    Displays output voltage... range 3.3v - 6v (the tolerances of the resister plus POT I'm actually getting 3.39v - 6.1v with this build) ...
    [​IMG]

    109mm x 58mm x 31mm...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Parts list:
    SoShine dual channel 18650 charger (fasttech)

    Naos Rapter (NSR020A0X43Z) 20A, 120W DC/DC Converter (digikey, mouser)

    Fire switch (PV5S64011) (digikey, mouser)

    2x22uF capacitors wired in parallel (C3225X5R1C226K250AA) (many thanks to CraigHB for recommendation on the input capacitor) (digikey, mouser) or GRM32CF51C226ZA12L (digikey, mouser)

    2x9A fuses wired in parallel (650-RGEF900) (digikey, mouser)

    200 ohm POT (PT10MH01-201A2020) (mouser)

    Shaft for 200 ohm POT (JPEPL5012NE or 5116) (mouser)

    POT knob of your choice that accommodates the size of shaft you've chosen (if using a shaft, a knob is not necessarily required)

    220 ohm and 7.5K ohm resisters, and 5.6v zener diode (various sites)

    Mini 3-position slide switch (on/off/on) (I used Apem TG39P000000)

    1S-6S voltage reader (ebay)

    2x 18650 batts (recommend 30A discharge rating)

    Wiring guide... I used 20ga for input/output/voltage reader, 22ga for the mini slide switch and POT...
    [​IMG]

    Note1: do not attempt this build if you are not familiar with battery safety and electronics safety. If you attempt this build, you do so solely at your own risk.

    Note2: if you do build this mod, do not bypass adding the external fuses - they protect you and the entire circuit from a potentially faulty or unstable battery.

    Note3: if you do build this mod, do not bypass the zener diode - it provides a safe voltage cutoff of 6v. Without it, the voltage will go all the way down to the converter default of 4.1v unless the batt's undervoltage protection kicks in - but you can't always rely on that.

    Note4: make note to switch batt positions at mid voltage range, or switch the lead batt to the non-lead batt after charging.

    Note5: currently, the only batteries recommended for use in this mod are the Sony 18650 US18650VTC3 30A 1600mAh batts (most preferred) or the Orbtronic SX30 18650 30A 2100mAh.
     
  2. asdaq

    asdaq Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Location:
    poland, and the brassy lands of google
    Glad you had a change of heart mamu. Also a lovely mod you have there, not a surprise to me. Best yet are the results of the battery testing, very useful indeed.

    Sent from my 4.4'd Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
     
  3. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    IN USA
    Thanks asdaq!

    I didn't have a change of heart, I just didn't agree with the old modding forum Disclaimer so wasn't posting anymore while that was in place. I agree with the revised modding forum Disclaimer - Rolygate did a great job with that so all is in balance again.

    I have high hopes that the LG 18650 batt is as claimed. If it is, with the very low internal resistance, 2500mAh, plus 30A discharge rating it's going to make all other 18650 high drain batts obsolete.
     
  4. bapgood

    bapgood Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Location:
    Utah
    I have my parts order (minus charger/case) hoping to be here Saturday.

    Kind of on the fence if I will put this in a mod, I have been wanting to build a bench a bench unit with tethered wand for testing atty setups and etc. I think this powered by a 12v power supply would work good.

    Thanks for another great how to!!!
     
  5. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Nov 27, 2008
    I also ordered all the parts except the box. Have a a big box full of boxes.;) Thanks Mamu.
    One question, specs on the zener diode besides just 5.6v?
     
  6. bapgood

    bapgood Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Apr 16, 2012
    Location:
    Utah
    What is this 30a LG 18650 you speak of??? Where to order mainly :D
     
  7. bapgood

    bapgood Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
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    Utah
  8. asdaq

    asdaq Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Location:
    poland, and the brassy lands of google
    A co-op for the Sony or LG batts around April/May would be the bees knees. :)

    I really like how the board is long and thin, but having looked over the specs carefully, it is a little large on the 15.5mm width and the inductor is just a little too close to the top edge to make the 9.2mm height easily fitting where I want it to.
     
  9. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    IN USA
    yeah - no stealth size mod with this board for sure. :laugh:

    CraigHB had mentioned the LG 18650 batts and that's how I found out about them. He didn't know though if they were accurate as spec'd, so I wanted to see and test them.

    LG 18650 batts: LG LGDAHE21865 3.6V 30A HIGH DRAIN 2500mAh Lithium ion Li-on

    and here: 2pcs LG LGDAHE21865 HIGH DRAIN 2500mAh 30A 3.6V Lithium ion Li-on 18650 Battery

    I ordered 2 from the ebay seller - I've bought from him before and no issues there.

    Specs:
    LG LGDAHE21865 HIGH DRAIN 2500mAh 30A Rechargeable Lithium Li-on 18650 Battery

    Description:
    · Li-ion 2500mAh 18650 cell
    · Product Name : LG LGDAHE21865 Lithium-ion Rechargeable Battery
    · Model : 18650
    · Nominal Capacity : 2500mAh
    · Diameter : 18.0mm
    · Height : 65.0mm
    · Weight(Typical) : 45g
    · Max. Continuing Charge Current : 30A
    · Internal resistance : 13mOhm
    · Charge Method: Constant Current and Constant Voltage(4.2V)
    · Nominal Voltage : 3.7 V
    · Discharge Temperature : -20°C ~ +60°C
     
  10. Visus

    Visus Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Jun 4, 2013
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    United States
    Awesome again Mamu thats a beast mod fer sure..
     
  11. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Mar 29, 2009
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    IN USA
    I'm sorry BJ - I was browsing this thread and realized I had missed your question.

    Here's the zener I used: BZX55B5V6-TR BZX55B5V6-TR Vishay Semiconductors | Mouser
     
  12. bapgood

    bapgood Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Utah
  13. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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  14. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Yours is the same Vishay series as mine. Yours might be the better choice though with the lower impedance, but the power dissipation is more than 2x than mine so that may be a trade off, not sure. Ideally both impedance and power dissipation should be as small as possible.

    The one I'm using I had left over from a couple of years ago when I was working with the OKR and needed an undervoltage cutoff. I didn't know much about specs or what it all meant back then (still don't sometimes :laugh:) and chose it for the 5.6 breakdown voltage.

    Both this Raptor and the OKR have 0.4v on/off, so that added to the 5.6v zener gives us the 6v (loaded) cutoff that we need.
     
  15. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    IN USA
    I got a bit irritated yesterday cuz the batts rattle a bit inside this case when I set it down or pick it up... so I fixed that right up by removing the case's negative batt contacts and put in 2x Keystone C negative spring contacts... nice and snug now with no rattle at all.

    Had to shape the contact's base a bit using the dremel so it fits and so neither contact touches the other, then used a pair of pliers to squeeze the spring a bit and torch it (like we do with micro coils) to lower the height of the spring - fits and works great.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Nov 27, 2008
    I received these caps from Mouser. Sure are tiny. How do I solder these parallel? Is there a pos/neg side to them?


    C3225X5R1C226K250AA

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Visus

    Visus Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Jun 4, 2013
    Location:
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    No polarity
    I would use a strip board
    magnifier, solder paste tip tinned touch and done

    easier said then done lol
     
  18. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Nov 27, 2008
    Yep and 70+ fingers and eyes don't help. Can other caps be used on the raptor, some with wire that can be soldered to the pins?:)
     
  19. Visus

    Visus Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Jun 4, 2013
    Location:
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    I cannot find a sheet on it.

    Mamu is using 22uf and its stable working really well
    the data sheet cap recommend on the 40a version is nowhere near 22uf.
    http://datasheet.octopart.com/NSR040A0X43Z-General-Electric-datasheet-17019156.pdf
    I use avx for my mods mainly because samples and they sent a lot..
    I like their tantalum caps they seem and are smoother imo than aluminum electrolytic.
    Its requesting a low esr cap so the caps you have .01esr, you cannot get any better esr caps
    you can do it lol...
     
  20. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    As Visus said, there is no polarity on ceramic caps.

    I reckon you could try 2x22uF leaded tant caps and not have any issues. From what I've been reading and from Craig's explanations about caps in our application, ceramic caps are preferred nowadays over tant caps due to its very low ESR and excellent reliability. And like with fuses where 2x in parallel will double the current and half the resistance, 2x caps in parallel will double the capacitance and lower the resistance (ESR) to get the least amount of impedence on the circuit.

    For the OKR-T10 I'm working on now I'm using a 22uF ceramic cap on the input. But that's optional for the OKR, I use an input cap for increased stability to reduce shock on the converter from the repeated and frequent firing that we do and as recommended by the Murata rep when I was using the OKR-T6. Reduced shock = longer life of the converter.

    The Raptor though it's not optional as it requires input caps.

    I use tweezers to line the 2 caps one on top of the other, then swipe one end with a dab of flux using a toothpick, then lightly solder the caps together, then do the same for the other end.

    Then you can solder a wire to each end, or you can make a solder bridge from one end of the cap soldered to one pin on the board to the other end of the cap soldered to the other pin on the board, or what I do is mount the caps to a 1x3 piece of veroboard where I dremeled off the copper of the center portion.

    You have to be very careful with these surface mounted pieces as the soldered ends will break off if any kind of stress or torque on them, so I find that mounting to a piece of veroboard gives protection and security to the ends.

    And yes, with these old eyes, I do everything under a lighted magnifier. :laugh:

    Here's an example of how I do the surface mount fuses for the DNA20...

    The fuses need a 1x4 piece of veroboard with the copper removed from the center portion...
    [​IMG]

    I solder the fuses and the wires to the veroboard...
    [​IMG]

    I put shrink tube over the fuses and ends...
    [​IMG]
     

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