RDA RDAs = the best flavor. Everyone says so.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Skauth

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Jun 7, 2013
200
98
Austin, Texas
Disclaimer: I dig RDAs, own several and use a Magma and my old Igo W daily. I have been building for over a year; I'm no Rip Tripper but I know what makes a good build.

I got into rebuilding as many of us do in the pursuit of better vaping. I lucked out and after hating the RSST, I found the Kayfun, which changed everything. Finally the brilliant flavor I smell in my juices is alive! Happy clam, was I.

But, like so many of us, I still hoped that there was better out there. My chief desires in vaping are crisp, clear flavor and a strong TH. Vapor is fun but anything past cartotank level vapor is, to me, a mere novelty.

But I couldn't miss all the buzz about drippers. With so many users raving about a new level of vaping experience and never going back, and the amazing flavor! I figured I had to be missing something, so I jumped in.

It's taken me a year of building and buying and experimenting to finally conclude: I bought into hype. RDAs are truly awesome devices and I would recommend them to many, but they aren't the be-all-end-all vaping platform I read so much about. They have specific uses in which they excel, and excel they do. I'm glad I tried them, I love a good cloud sometimes and I love warm vapor. But, moving into RDAs accomplished very little improvements in my target areas, flavor and TH.

I very much wanted to believe I was getting what I wanted, and convinced myself that I had for a time. Told other vapers they were missing out on the future. But in the end I had to admit to myself that as much as I wanted the hype to ring true, wanted to have found the best vape that exists, I simply hadn't, not by my personal definition. All that money and time later, my Kayfun still gives me the most of what I want for my ADV.

Now, some amazing, peerless flavor can come out of a good RDA setup, but this is a question of heat and juice in my opinion, not one of device (broad statement, I realize ofc that device and build do matter to a degree). I have encountered certain juices that contain nuances of flavor that ONLY high wattage delivery can reveal; it follows that these juices are well suited for RDAs, as no non-dripping device is as capable of performing properly at the highest power level.

However - do not make the mistake, as I did, of following that logic to the conclusion that RDAs are the premier flavor delivery devices. RDAs at their core are designed for accessibility, simplicity, full control of vape experience and the ability to use much higher power than a standard device, if desired.

Looking at what seems to yield the best flavor consistently, I do not believe that flavor production is the driving force in RDA design. Even newer RDAs intended for 'flavor builds' are only designed to deliver superior flavor versus other RDAs, not versus all devices.

For a select few juices I have found, RDAs are the best choice for flavor, as Kayfuns and clearos/cartos burn too easily when trying to heat-activate subtle flavors, especially at 30+W. Penguin's Yellow Eyes is a great example; in my Kayfun it tastes like lemony cake. In my Magma at high power, it really tastes like a lemon crumble.

Even so, the vast majority of liquids I have tried respond little to not at all to high power vs regular power. Using those liquids in RDAs vs my Kayfun, I get peerless vapor production and high nicotine delivery, no equal. I also get a drastically reduced TH, and flavor lacking in either clarity (blander, fuzzier) or balance (full flavor but one element of the flavor overwhelms other elements).

I have never tried an RDA of any build in all my time that yielded equivalent TH to a Kayfun/tank, whether using closed draw, open draw, lower or higher power. Tanks are still king of TH in my book, I've experienced this 100% of the time.

With a few exceptions that speak entirely to specific liquids, using the identical power settings, wicking material and liquid I have never had any RDA yield equivalent flavor to my Kayfun, dare I say even to my Nautilus Mini with a fresh tank/coil (honestly I haven't had the Mini long enough to really say that). Of course you can apply far more power to the RDA to increase performance than you can the tank, but it's up to the juice whether that will increase your flavor output. In most of my experiences, it does not.

To recap: I love RDAs and use them daily. They are beautiful devices and provide exceptional vape performance. But I no longer believe they are the premier atomizing device for all vaping, as I once did.

If you're craving great flavor and a strong TH, don't bend over backwards trying to get different RDAs to perform like a Kayfun-type device. Just go for the Kayfun or equivalent, master your builds and be content in the knowledge that you have, at least for now, the best device for you.

Feedback welcome!
 

Skauth

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Jun 7, 2013
200
98
Austin, Texas
I've recently come to the exact same conclusion. I love drippers for ease of use, and getting big clouds, but the my kayfun style setup (fogger v4.1, or v4 plus or whatever the hell the proper name is) give superior flavor on the vast majority of juices. About to make a post asking for suggestions about drippers with kayfun type flavor :)

Good to know I'm not crazy/suffering from a broken palate.

I can't imagine an RDA that I've ever seen that would consistently give 'Kayfun type flavor.' Difference in design.

Maybe a bottom airflow dripper like the Magma, but with a tiny deck and a threaded chimney to go over the build (a la the Kayfun)? I don't think that exists yet, nor does it seem conducive to dripping in my mind.
 

Skauth

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Jun 7, 2013
200
98
Austin, Texas
I don't agree with an RBA giving a better throat hit then a RDA.

When using a RDA I do throat hits and when using a RBA its mouth to lung.

When the amount of vapor that can produced by a RDA there should be no comparisons in throat hits at all.

I agree that inhalation technique is important also. However, I have tried lung hitting and french-inhaling on both device types, using the appropriate narrow or wide airflow. Max TH seems to come from french-inhaling, and I've never gotten an RDA to deliver it like a Kayfun or cartotank even with that technique.

The amount of vapor should indeed suggest an increased TH, but my experience overwhelmingly says otherwise. I believe it has more to do with vapor concentration than volume. When highly concentrated vapor all hits your lungs at once.... That's the stuff.

Thanks for the post!
 

VaPreis

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 5, 2013
2,043
2,273
St. Louis, MO
I suggested this very same idea in a thread awhile back....I was horribly shot down. (Fair enough, I expected it)

IMO, there is a difference between delivering flavor by efficiency and design such as with the Kayfun, then delivering it via brute force via a sub ohm dripper.

Given a comparable build, kayfun vs. <insert latest, trendiest, dripper name here>, a Kayfun will almost always taste better.
 

Papa_Lazarou

MKUltra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 23, 2013
5,867
21,660
Gabriola Island, Canada
I agree with the OP with respect to larger chamber RDA's. They feel like hemi V8's to me (clearly, I'm not alone, given names like Big Block). Brute force vaping.

Smaller chamber atties, however, give me better flavour than the kayfun (IMHO). Lots of variables to arrive at that, of course, but a 14 mm atty with either a single or dual coil setup under the right conditions for air flow, resistance, etc. get me more out of my juice. They're more like BMW's 6-cyl used in the M3 up until a few years ago.

The fashion of today's RDA is moving even farther in the direction that you describe, but give me a A6, cyclone (non-afc), IGO-S, or even triangle any day.

Don't get me wrong - the kayfun (style) is a wonderful RBA that delivers. For me, this is about levels of greatness (YMMV).
 

VaPreis

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 5, 2013
2,043
2,273
St. Louis, MO
I love my RDA's and i'm a dripper at heart but I just can't pretend like i'm not getting a superior vape with ss mesh on my sat22. Hell, even my kraken produces better flavour than my Magma, Veritas and Origen v2.

I must admit I put a single horizontal coil build in a friends Veritas the other day, and the flavor from it was pretty spectacular riding on an rDNA.

Although, we were trying a new line of flavors that I wasn't familiar with. So who knows.......
 

mrdeltoid

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 3, 2013
87
35
Sweden
I must admit I put a single horizontal coil build in a friends Veritas the other day, and the flavor from it was pretty spectacular riding on an rDNA.

Although, we were trying a new line of flavors that I wasn't familiar with. So who knows.......

Obviously the juice makes a huge difference and it just so happens that a prefer juices that simply taste better on mesh. I have some spectacular builds on all my drippers and still most of my juices taste better on a traditional spaced coil on a mesh straw.
 

Skauth

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Jun 7, 2013
200
98
Austin, Texas
I agree with the OP with respect to larger chamber RDA's. They feel like hemi V8's to me (clearly, I'm not alone, given names like Big Block). Brute force vaping.

Smaller chamber atties, however, give me better flavour than the kayfun (IMHO). Lots of variables to arrive at that, of course, but a 14 mm atty with either a single or dual coil setup under the right conditions for air flow, resistance, etc. get me more out of my juice. They're more like BMW's 6-cyl used in the M3 up until a few years ago.

The fashion of today's RDA is moving even farther in the direction that you describe, but give me a A6, cyclone (non-afc), IGO-S, or even triangle any day.

Don't get me wrong - the kayfun (style) is a wonderful RBA that delivers. For me, this is about levels of greatness (YMMV).

Haven't tried any of those, very interesting. What in your opinion accounts for the superior flavor (vs Kayfun type)?
 

Marc411

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 17, 2014
4,737
10,918
Windy City
With all the high wattage box mods coming out I think the playing field has changed a bit. I love RDA's but have never been into sub-ohm. The IPV has changed the way I use my drippers. I build 1.4 - 1.8 ohm duals and vape at 25+ watts and the flavor and TH are outstanding and far surpass the KF.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy my KF and mech's but the high wattage box mods changed the game when it comes to dripping.
 

dirtybirdy

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 31, 2014
428
245
Georgia
I'm wondering if your not getting the TH hit from your RDAs as you would your RBA. I use an authentic Manhattan has my tube mod and its hits like a freight train. For my other devices I use a Hana Modz V3. I can't get the same kind of throat hit off my RDAs when I can only push 30w of power into it because it's reading at like 3.2v and I need it to be at around 4v which would be around 65-75w.
 

Skauth

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Jun 7, 2013
200
98
Austin, Texas
I'm wondering if your not getting the TH. from your RDAs as you would your RBA. I use an authentic Manhattan has my tube mod and its hits like a freight train. For my other devices I use a Hana Modz V3. I can't get the same kind of throat hit off my RDAs when I can only push 30w of power into it because it's reading at like 3.2v and I need it to be at around 4v which would be around 65-75w.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not disappointed in my drippers at all. They're built with love and they perform like champs. I do get strong TH from my RDAs but it isn't the same as from a tank device.. How to explain?

When I mouth-hit my Kayfun or cartotank, the sensation I get when I draw that vapor down into my lungs is a sharp, biting delight. So enjoyable in fact that it got me off cigs for good.

I've tried mouth hits on my drippers with narrow AFC.. I enjoy the heat but the TH is not as pronounced. Probably because of larger chamber. So I lung hit my RDAs mostly. Crazy vapor and nicotine delivery, decent TH and flavor. The TH though is more a nicotine/heat type feeling, instead of a sharp delivery like the tank. At least to me.
 

Skauth

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Jun 7, 2013
200
98
Austin, Texas
With all the high wattage box mods coming out I think the playing field has changed a bit. I love RDA's but have never been into sub-ohm. The IPV has changed the way I use my drippers. I build 1.4 - 1.8 ohm duals and vape at 25+ watts and the flavor and TH are outstanding and far surpass the KF.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy my KF and mech's but the high wattage box mods changed the game when it comes to dripping.

I hear variations on this so, so often. Let me say first, I do not doubt your experience and I'm glad you are enjoying your vape! No sarcasm!

But this is not my experience so far. See, I've tried some of the new stuff too, thanks to friends and conventions. I've hit reduced chamber drippers at 120w, I hit a quad coil Genesis atty at 80w. I even hit a 2.5 ohm dual coil at 205 watts on a prototypal tube mod.

And all that was awesome! But for me it was just variations on the same - there was no game changer for me, despite being quite novel and the most intense dripping experiences for me so far. Yeah, things got hotter, and clouds got bigger. And I'm not hating, it's all good!

I met some vendors at a convention recently who still sample their juices out of Kayfuns. After visiting booth after booth with RDAs to sample, the flavor clarity from that Kayfun blew me away.
 

MrPlink

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 7, 2014
1,512
989
Portland, OR / San Francisco CA
Well said OP.
Here is the TLDR:
Different stuff does different stuff.

For 90 percent of all scenarios the Magma is my hands down go to device.

Big clouds are fun. And I do have a couple of bona-fide cloud chaser rigs for laughs, but flavor is my bench mark above all else. That said, there are some juices I like that I have found are outstanding in a KF but lacking in a dripper. However, the majority of what I vape excels in drippers and is a tad muted in a RTA.

But personal preference aside, there are SO many variables to consider.

Let's be honest, most folks can't build or wick for crap. I honestly think that is a big part of why drippers are so popular, they are MUCH more forgiving than a Kayfun in almost every regard.
 

ukeman

PV Masher
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 22, 2010
7,718
5,129
Kauai, Hawaii
Good post OP... very in depth.
Now that I think of it, in the evolution of vaping in the last few years, I recall that after the first flurry of RBA's (genesis), when RDA's made their debut, with micro coils and cotton balls, I felt they beat genesis' in flavor.

Then came the RTA's.

RDA designs flourished riding the cloud chasing phenomenon.

In most "what is the best flavor RDA" threads I found that the consensus was in agreement with your findings and yeah certain RDA's were more flavorful than the straight up flat base, multi coil, big air holes cloud chasers, but not on par with KF types.

Myself I just simplified my opinion that the more coils and air brought a diminishing return in the flavor dept, and for over a year now have preferred the Prometey2 RTA (and a little more recently the Achilles Ti dripper), both from Ti Modders Group Ukraine which are single coil, and have raised central under-coil air posts and pos/neg posts, and some really good Japanese cotton. Very easy to set up

The P2 has a filler in the large top chamber, and the elevated posts allow for about a ml of juice at the base.

The Achilles has no filler, but does have deep juice wells.
(I much prefer these over my Magma, I guess because I like single coils for some reason).
I use b/f versions of Magma and Origen2 on my sub ohms Reo Grands, both dual coils, good flavor and great for on the road.

I recently ordered an Erlkonigin (sp?) just to try another KF type of RTA again, and Ti modders group just came out with the Ataman Ti RTA too.
 

ukeman

PV Masher
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 22, 2010
7,718
5,129
Kauai, Hawaii
Big clouds are fun. And I do have a couple of bona-fide cloud chaser rigs for laughs, but flavor is my bench mark above all else. That said, there are some juices I like that I have found are outstanding in a KF but lacking in a dripper. However, the majority of what I vape excels in drippers and is a tad muted in a RTA.

Now that is interesting... I'd like to hear more of your experience and thoughts regarding juices in that context.

Lucky for me I guess, my tastes are kind of simple; i prefer fruit flavors and some creamy stuff.
I buy some vendor juices and DIY equally.
All my juices are mostly VG if not all VG (which has gotten a bad rap over the years; wrongly so imo).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread