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Reo Mod - Modding for improved flat top battery firing pin contact

Discussion in 'Reos Mods' started by gdeal, Aug 3, 2013.

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  1. gdeal

    gdeal Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    So, I am new the world of Reo's. About two weeks ago I received my Reo Grand. Since I was busy doing micro coil wizardry with super_x, pdib, statistic and whole bunch of other guys (gals?) over in the other Micro-coil thread, the transition was easy. I really enjoy all the features that the Reo has and I wont re-cap, you guys know what they are.... So why am I posting?

    The one issue I have with the Reo is a periodic misfire. It only happened to me recently. I mainly vape sub-ohm coils so this may add to the effect. My understanding is that this occurs because of oxidation. The only solution I could find is to file down the firing pin and reapply Noalox, The fix worked to correct issue, but it return a couple of days later. The issue happens more often with flat tops than with a button top. So I took a closer look at the firing pin connection to the positive terminal of a flat top. Apparently, there is an arc'ing effect which I believe is due to the small surface area that makes contact. At the end of the firing pin is a slight curl and contact is not optimize for lower ohm coils IMO. Here is what I saw:

    [​IMG]


    So to address the surface area contact, I placed a thin strip of copper (.2mm thickness) around the end of the firing pin. The copper was thick enough to be able to conform and "lock" onto the end of the firing pin with a slight pinch from a needle nose pliers.

    [​IMG]


    The contact point is formed to increase the potential contact area and is adjusted so that inadvertent firing on the atty can not occur. I have tweak it to also work with button tops as well. There is enough play in the switch throw to accommodate this.

    [​IMG]

    The result is very apparent, no misfires, instant on connection and full power delivery. When the device is lock it will not fire.

    The usual disclaimer applies here. Mod at your own risk. This mod can result in a very bad situation, if you dont know what that can be, then dont do it.

    BTW, this is my new addition and current favorite device.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Statistic

    Statistic REOnaughty Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Brilliant...


    edit to add: I haven't had any troubles with the recommended batteries, at all. I have had trouble using non Rob Approved flat top batteries.. I imagine this slight modification would help with making a good connection on those flat tops.
     
  3. elscorcho

    elscorcho Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    OK, noob question ........I can definitely see the advantage of optimizing contact etc with this awesome mod (nice:thumb: job). But are the extra oxidation, misfires, etc even an issue if I'm not sub ohm vaping?

    [I've only had my Grand for two weeks. I already had some flattops (panny NCR18650PD-2900mah). I've been using them with no problem (I know its only been two weeks) and all of my coils are 1-1.7ohm.]
     
  4. pdib

    pdib Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

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    Cool, gdeal. I had thought about doing that back when I first had issues, only with some brass shim I have laying around from pinhole camera days. I emailed Rob to check against his knowledge of the REO. He said that, in designing it, he had tried a lot of shapes and sizes of tips for the firing pin, and what he's using worked the best. He said that a larger area of contact proved not to work as well. I decided to rely on his experience and his "been there done that" feedback. If this proves out, my hat is off to you, tho! :)
     
  5. pdib

    pdib Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

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    The flattop issue seems to be exacerbated by high current draw. Meaning, don't worry about it. You're not going to break anything. If your firing pin requires more maintenance, and you wished it didn't, you can deal with it then. (probably won't be an issue, tho)
     
  6. gdeal

    gdeal Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    If Rob tested and optimize the firing pin shape. I trust his work. But, based upon my device and usage with my batteries that have scraps and marks on the positive terminal from screwing down the atty, this mod eliminated the sparking issue for me. The first pic in the OP was right before the mod was made. After the mod, no sparks.

    All my pulses are now solid with flat tops. Its only been a day so I'll post back (good or bad) on the durability of the copper.

    BTW, thanks for originally "sparking" my interest here. I dont think I would have purchase a Reo with out your inspiration. :)
     
  7. supertrunker

    supertrunker Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I was hoping to just take a pic of what i do - but lets start at the point of melting buttons - because i use the biggest batteries i can fit inside a Grand and 1 Ohm coils.

    4 melted buttons later it occurs to me that a rectangular button pushing on a pin that travels in an arc is not cool. My button mashing technique may not be the best and perhaps something with a more rounded shape might help and also make it easier for a hamfisted fool like me to vape and not constantly wreck things.

    So what i do is use a nickel plated rivet $3 for a hundred i think at hobby lobby that i butchered and epoxy glue it on the firing pin. Just for aesthetics i paint it in ceramic black paint, but the paint alone was useless.

    buttonmod.jpg

    i realise that a few of you will think that modifying anything about a Reo is sacrilege, but my huge cloud says not!

    While we are on the topic let's be very clear about what the dangers are - i am not content with just messing about and using a random disclaimer 'anything you use may come back and bite you'
    So here they are:

    If you short a battery, whether it's your crap coil on an atty or not - your battery will get very hot - very fast. It will likely vent in the case of an IMR = crap all over the room like tinsel at Xmas only wife is not feeling very Xmassy.

    If you are totally reckless and use lithium-ion batteries without care then they will explode with subsequent loss of teeth/face or (imagine it's in the front of your jeans...) worse!

    If life were as simple as just throwing things together with no understanding then we'd all be gods, but we're not!

    T
     
  8. redeyedancer

    redeyedancer Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

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    Hello gdeal When I first starting selling mods all the mechanical mods positive contacts were flat . I had more inconsistency with this type of setup .
    I am not saying this wont work better for you we are in a totally different world now with sub ohm vaping . I run a grand daily at about .8 ohm and dont have the problem . I am not sure if going lower in ohms aggravates the situation I would need to do more testing . I use and recommend aw imr button top 18650 batteries and only need to clean my contact a couple times a year . I highly recommend trying the correct battery for the mod .
     
  9. super_X_drifter

    super_X_drifter Vaper with a vid cam, killer mods and awesome RDAs Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Yep, all I've ever run are the recommended AW IMRs. Never had a misfire. I just can't make these guys fail. I did notice, for the first time EVER, a slight drop in performance last night with my most used grand and simply hit the point with a tiny dab of noalox and it is right back to where it was. A beast.
     
  10. pdib

    pdib Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

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    Well, its a solid idea and well executed. My brass shim is thinner, and would have required more monkeying around. I am indeed interested to see it work! Like I said in my PM, I too chose the route of vaping thru my flattop investment. If I'd have seen that pic a couple months ago, you would have had me trying it fo' sho'.
     
  11. supertrunker

    supertrunker Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    well - that maybe true SXD - but you are a rather unusual vaper, you only use plain liquid, whereas a lot of us have to contend with partners that think vaping chocolate and coffee is cool! My personal fav is MYOB from Trunkerlabs, but HRH is a different animal.

    I'm guessing that your coils and gear stay a lot cleaner than any of mine and last longer as a result - as for cleaned once every 6 months - hahahah - i call b/s on that - i have to clean all my stuff bi-weekly!

    i don't begrudge it - it comes with the territory, so you either only take 3 puffs a day in which case why bother at all, or you have a hidden model i have yet to source!

    T
     
  12. pdib

    pdib Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

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    I am right pleased with the performance I'm getting with the recommended batteries, tho. And glad to find that the AW1600s can dance a mean jig!
     
  13. supertrunker

    supertrunker Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    i was under the impression that for sub ohm especially, all that matters is the Mah, and most importantly the constant and pulse discharge rate?

    so - a 1600 might match a 2000 mAh for a bit, but not for very long. My personal experience is that bigger = better else we'd all be still using cigarette-looking things with stupid lights on the end.

    T
     
  14. pdib

    pdib Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

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    The way that mAh seems to matter is; if you try and cram too much of it in there, it gets all squeezie and tight, and the electrons don't have no elbow room. Give 'em some room to dance . . . . . and the jig is on.



    more internal resistance = lower discharge rating
     
  15. ChrisEU

    ChrisEU Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    mAh (The amount of total energy stored), C rating (maximum discharge rate) and size are the design triangle the manufacturers have to consider. The more energy inside a battery, the finer the nano structures are - finer structures don't let the energy through as easily.

    So, traditionally you can have high C rating or high mAh or small size (pick two).

    There are newer battery chemistries that use non standard, proprietary ways to deal with the problem, but it goes only so far.
     
  16. pdib

    pdib Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

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    Well said, Chris. Given two batteries of same size and quality, its a good bet (not a certainty) that the one with lower mAh rating will have less internal resistance, higher discharge capabilities and better performance for high-drain pulse/burst discharging.


    Given the AW2000 and 1600, and the voltage range used in mech (4.1-3.8), the 1600 lasts as long or longer than the 2000 (depending on how full of Brio, Elan, Vim, and Vigor you like your vape). The 2000 will generate steam longer; . . . . . . . . . . and the Geo Metro will go further on a gallon of gas than the Ferrari.*









    *methinks . . . . , no?
     
  17. super_X_drifter

    super_X_drifter Vaper with a vid cam, killer mods and awesome RDAs Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I run a clean operation here (as I pause to take prolly my 113th hit of the day) and I'm sure that is a contributing factor in my low maintenance REO lifestyle. Most of the time I put my grand in a sunglasses case when extended pocket time is anticipated. I'm not a low ohm type, I, until a few days ago, ran all my coils at 2 + ish ohms. I run my VVG on nearly the lowest setting. Perhaps those factors (pause for hits 115 - 118) in why my REOs demand so little of me in contrast of all I demand (and receive) of them. 119, 120... Damn that's good...121, 122...
    I'll keep an eye on this 1.2 ohm coil I've got on my used for a week grand and see it that brings out any need for firing pin maintenance :)

    Now I got a few hundred more hits to take yet today god willing :)
     
  18. gdeal

    gdeal Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Hi Rob, First off thank you for making these devices. I appreciate the design elements, the robustness of materials and luv the surface colors/treatments. You device is my daily vape now.

    I understand your recommendation. But my issue occurred with the recommended button tops as well. After talking with pdib, I took a closer look at my batteries. They all had the tell tale sign of tube genny usage. Slight scraps. a divit and circular markings from screwing the positive on post of the atty onto the battery. The button top (aw IMR 18650s) had less circle indentation. I dont have any new button batteries (yet) to test the hypothesis, but after seeing the arcing on the flat top, modder instincts just kicked-in.
     
  19. pdib

    pdib Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

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    There is definitely something to that aspect as well. It seems to me that, as a tube mod scrapes up (and removes any conductive finish from) a battery, it's big fat screw head positive contact doesn't care. Somewhere on that large flat surface, its gonna find a spot to conduct some traffic. My lone AW2000 didn't fare too well with my subΩ setups either. I think it was because: 1: it was scratched up 2: it was taking turns with the MNKE's

    All of them performed great after a good cleaning; but as one battery started dirtying the pin, the pin would then spark out the next battery which would further foul the pin. Spiral, spiral, domino. I'd clean the pin, or switch to a fresh battery; but they would infect each other. I had respectable results after I finally put the whole pattern together and addressed it with keeping everything clean whenever one thing showed signs of problems. So, it works. Once I had my knowledge and my maintenance routine, my vapes were trouble free.

    When other SLR vapers with their first REO have these issues, they won't have to scratch their heads and wonder what's wrong, and worry that it isn't going to work for them.
    We seem to have a better idea of what's happening here. And we have a number of methods to deal with the problem (cleaning and/or modding). Nobody is eager to throw out a mess of batteries and buy new ones right after dropping a bunch of cash on a new mod. They don't have to. They just need to know what's what, how to deal with it, and know that new batteries (of the right kind, if and when they want to buy them) will resolve the issue.

    Conversely, the design of the firing pin in the REO makes for a very gentle touch. I really don't see how I'm going to put any significant wear on my new batteries.
     
  20. gdeal

    gdeal Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    pdib.. words from the wise.... :thumbs: So...moral of the story is to dedicate new AW's to the Reo for trouble free usage? and....send to the rest of them to the trophy shelf with your tube mods?
     
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