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Review of V4L

Discussion in 'Reviews of Suppliers - Negative' started by WOW, Sep 15, 2010.

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  1. WOW

    WOW Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2010
    Keeping in accordance with Elendil's posting guidelines,( this review is only based on V4L's:

    1. Shipping speed
    2. Return policy
    3. Communication
    4. and the like.

    from an objective and comparative point of view over 3 months time.

    1. Shipping speed

    More often than not, every order ships within 3 business days. V4L does not assist consumers equally on lost or delayed orders.

    2. Return policy

    V4L's return policy does not match what is on their website. While this can often make them a far more attractive, compassionate and understanding company, it also causes mixed messages. Instead of being addressed my recent experience has shown me V4L handles consumer confusion over verbal agreements(made because "we haven't updated our return policy yet") with compounded double-talk(mixed messages), avoidance, personal insults, etc. They seem to only keep their word if they feel like it and after they convince you to not pay attention to their to be updated 'policy'. iow, when you take them at their word about their policy not being inflexible, they use their verbal policy to delay doing anything until the warranty wears out, get all sympathetic about after the fact but, ultimately do not adequately follow through. They don't honor their 72hr wrong product policy when they make the mistake more than once, instead using 'bonuses' as replacements and defaming a person after killing the fun they say the bonuses are intended for, as an 'ungrateful' customer (again to keep things clean here) They push for thank-you's when you have a serious issue, rather than correct the problem. (see next).

    3. Communication

    CS in any business is there to field complaints. During the 1st couple months the majority of any email to their team was related to website problems when ordering and they handled those e-mails very well.

    My major concern was that I didn't get the kit I ordered. During that process, one of the best CS reps left V4L. The new rep, instead of shipping the kit as ordered, items in the kit were individually replaced with bonus cartos. However, 3 months later, non-functional part after non-functional part, not all items were replaced. I was told I was being 'silly' to 'petty' (to keep the language clean here) to even care about color choices. From that point forward, any problem I had was reduced to how much trouble they went to to replace the kit, which again, they didn't completely do but, as if they did.

    I was told by the company owner/investor it was, in his opinion, 'weird' that I purchased only 1 kit, showing enormous confidence in V4L's products that are promoted with a longer lifespan, given a written personal promise w/ his cell # that he would discuss this and a DOA product purchased & less than a month old, that he did not follow through on because he was in meetings. No further attempt was made by him to follow through and there was no response to a direct e-mail by myself to him about this either.

    CS has informed me they would extend an exception by fixing my first order, correcting the DOA new separately purchased product and correcting items their packing department shipped that I didn't order, with no notice to me that they were picking some things based on guesswork I'd like them when items ordered were out of stock. That verbal agreement changed to their blaming me, telling me (a 2+ pk/day smoker(I started vaping on a different PV before finding V4L) I didn't know how to vape and have no sense of taste instead of acknowledging a problem on their end, despite several similar complaints on their forum. The rep who made that agreement with me is the same rep who told me to not contact CS again.

    I was justifiably upset and unjustifiably accused of a 3part pm being threatening. I expressed how much this hurt me, offered alternative ways to be in touch as a suggestion and went as far as offering to pay for all but s/h costs if they would honor their spoken 'absolutely we test all of our products on request!) I needed them to verbally explain the initial agreement as to what they are open to doing in cases where there are repeated and continuous errors and/or faulty merchandise - that they could help by testing the product first, and requested this be done more than once. It was ignored and therefore I was continually shipped mis-manufactured items. What I got was a hostile OT e-mail and no response at all from a second V4L staff-person.

    My most recent order was lost in the mail and CS, instead of taking an interest to assist me, recanted more than 5 completely different excuses as to why they could not, fully aware I had no juice for over 10 days. Their email continued, again, back to my first order and the 'bonuses' (the trojan horse) of their put downs and avoidance. It went so far as CS dictating to me what I could and couldn't purchase as well as their request to not 'bother' them, so OT to a request for assistance over a lost package it is all review-worthy.

    4. Other

    Their privacy policy makes no sense as it says it only applies to on-line communication. What does that mean? If they read or are told personal info during a phone call they can do whatever they want with your personal information? They don't explain this.

    There is no way to delete your account - only change your cc info or email address. Your name and address is forever in their system.

    CS reps have a very high turnover, which does not exude any or successful training of their staff as well as confuse reps when resolutions are delayed and are transferred to someone new who has no idea what standing agreements were put in place. Instead of quick resolutions, extended delays, etc. seem to push new reps over the edge; are overly stressful for them to deal with causing more delays. One rep, I was told was not yet trained to take a msg is presently in charge of all customer service - a week later. Fast learner.

    V4L's shipping costs are much higher than the cost printed on the USPS label. They do not explain why.

    V4L's packing department does not pack juice and batts separately so the batt (or other items) are not ruined if the juice leaks.

    No one calls out individuals who don't pack correctly or CS reps who fail to keep their word.


    My first 2 months with V4L was 3-5*****(5 on some items outside the scope of this forum) because I took them at the word.

    The last month <1* because their CS depleted my stock of juice, left me needing a shovel from the verbal nonsense, etc., denied their own 'contact within 72hrs on wrong products' and no way to trust them.

    My average rating based on this review, over 3 months and approx $450=$500 in, is a 2-3 and primarily based on outright negligent CS that shows no signs of improving.

    This review in no way is or implies any rating about the V4L forum, itself or any of the consumers there. This is strictly based on actual events I've personally experienced and notice can and do occur for better or worse, directly from the V4L company, that has not done anything but go around the actual problem with a schoolyard bully attitude.

    If the purpose of this forum to reach resolutions, it would take a miracle after all this nonsense.
  2. Vchick

    Vchick PIF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 18, 2010
    NE Ohio
    Seems like there's been alot of unrest going here with some suppliers, I contacted one of the mods the other nite about this and asked several poignant questions about resolving disputes with the forum suppliers, the following is a partial quote;

    " if any member is having unresolved issues with any registered supplier on the forum, they may contact our Supplier Complaint Officer, who will work to help get any issues resolved. His contact info can be found on our Contacts Page: Ecigarette Forum Contacts "

    With that, I would highly suggest that anyone having issues, go to the link, print out the page and contact them asap, without documentation or information they cannot help.

    Hope this helps! Vicki
  3. jtcaseyjr

    jtcaseyjr Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 9, 2010
    Oak Harbor, WA
    While so far I have had no problem personally with V4L, I can see where you would be frustrated based on what you said. That being said as always there are 2 sides to every story. I will agree though that it does seem like V4L does go through CS people quite a bit. Not sure why that is.

    I hope your issues get resolved with mutual satisfaction to you and the company
  4. WOW

    WOW Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2010
    There are two sides to every 'story'. I think, jtcaseyjr, the problem lies in the fact that once they've let things build up and slide for so long, they choose to only listen to theirs and everything they've emailed seems to support that. They're already satisfied so aren't interested in a mutual resolve and again, have emailed as much and then some.

    As far as the CS rep turnover rate, I think, their CS might, for the most part, be working between college semesters. It was rare but the rep that was truly devoted to vaping, had more life experience and CS came very natural to him.

    Otherwise, it's simply a review of V4L based on my experience and observations of mostly their CS.

    Thanks to both of you for your concern to reply to my review.
  5. WOW

    WOW Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2010
    I want to thank V-Chick and JTC, Jr. for your feedback, as well as everyone who didn't pounce all over me for my initial review of V4L(it helped let my issues become resolvable and instead of wasting my time defending myself, it gave me the space I needed to learn how to deal with 'when everything seems wrong' things and I'm also sure helped V4L see where some things wrong with less stress, also)

    I AM THRILLED TO POST HOW EACH AND EVERY POINT WAS, SINCE THIS POST, ADDRESSED BY V4L, FOR NOT ONLY MYSELF BUT, EVERY V4L CUSTOMER. (Less thrilling, but there's parts of my initial review that were a direct result of my needing to learn new things.

    I'm very grateful for the opportunity to correct both to rebuild trust with V4L on my side and with hope others will learn from my experience. It's easy to doubt everything during an 'everything's wrong' time and I do extend not only my apologies to V4L but what I've learned from this. Heaven forbid anyone else crash lands like I did, they'll read this first and know how to prepare themselves better than I did. I also want to thank ECF for giving members a more 'private' or 'quiet' area where miracles can be hoped for and worked toward being open to for consumers and vendors. Elindil, this forum, if needed, works with your guidelines....thanks. :)

    This is my detailed updated V4L review

    My present rating for V4L has, in less than 14 days changed from <1* to 4-5*'s, with one replacement enroute.

    I'm keeping the original layout and content and adding to it so others can see both the issues and the resolutions. Short of the order enroute containing only bubblewrap, I don't anticipate any further problems with V4L and unconditionally adding the extra *

    Now for the UPDATE...

    Thanks, ECF! This is a real turning point and I continue to extend my best wishes for ECF and V4L's ongoing success. I will not be escalating my complaint/review to any back-up ECF officers. Just a long way of saying V4L made some welcomed changes that are 4-5*'s commendable.

    Thank heaven and happy :vapor: 'ing !!!!!!!!


  6. SnowDragon
    This message by SnowDragon has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Sep 28, 2010, Reason: personal attack.
    Sep 28, 2010
  7. MikeDeason

    MikeDeason Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2010
    Their pre filled cartos are very hit and miss as are the batts and PT's. Poor quality control on their products. I used to order ALOT of stuff from them due to glowing reviews but quickly became dissapointed with the lack of consistancy of quality.
  8. WOW

    WOW Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2010
    I just finished trying to correct a ton of typos and added some other thoughts (like that post gets any longer and it's going to need chapters!)

    The juice is more economical. They also have new carts that are wrapped for sanitary return. They know, like every other vendor, there's variations but watch some YouTube vids (I think I watched 1 from every vendor that has one) V4L is the only one where the person in the vid doesn't end up hacking on the juice. It's high quality. Also, if your using a KR808 cart with a high output batt, the juice is going to burn fast and effect the taste same as if you vape on a 1/2 charged batt.

    I was really heartbroken. It's hard for me to write off a company that tries so hard and makes various options available affordable. If you have a complaint visit their forum and look at the stickies. Talk to them. Let them know. This thread is not one for complaining after the exceptional efforts they made so rapidly to do what they do best - help people who want they're input smile. You've posted over there before. I'm trying to help so everyone can learn from my experience how to vape happy within these lengths they went to without one price hike on anything and more sales than ever.

    No one had these features - It's not that easy to express the difference it makes to anyone not willing to try them. They're free and don't obligate you to purchase anything. You'll feel better just knowing it's not as bad you think - a LOT has changed - I'm astounded by how fast they did this. That is part of quality control. Otherwise, you're just bashing on a informational review for your use.

    It's surreal how these things get turned back on me.
  9. rekeybobby

    rekeybobby Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 7, 2010
    new york
    let me just say i dont like hassle and im thankful for your input because going in blindfolded is all you can do if reviews like this isnt done imo
  10. Sewnmachine

    Sewnmachine Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Well, my short version is I'm a dedicated customer. Yes, a few (3) bad batts but good customer service and very generous comps. They're still my "go-to" store. Ummmmm , in fact I'm going there now. More shopping!
  11. aszure

    aszure Full Member

    Jul 23, 2010
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    I used v4l when I started to vape (6 months ago) and I was very pleased with them. At the time, the liquid seemed awesome, the cartos would be hit and miss and the batteries were pretty reliable. Plus they usually have a 22-24% discount once a month. What I didn't like is that they really only sold 1 type of device. Later when I acquired an 510 with a drip tip, and some liquid from a good supplier, I stopped ordering from them. I never had a problem, but just found their selection weak, and their liquids, although good, are not the best that I have tried.
  12. r4fter

    r4fter Full Member

    Sep 11, 2010
    Central, PA
    Man vapor4life has amazing customer service. Yeah the orders seemed to have been messed up lately but you know why I'm not complaining? Because I am sitting on about $50 in free stuff for the mixups...they make things better than right when they make a least for me I am more than happy with their customer service.
  13. PhyllisJ

    PhyllisJ Full Member

    Aug 17, 2010
    South Florida
    I started with V4L because it was easy 2 piece, great flavors offered and I was thrilled with everything I received. However, lately they have added their "Cool Carts" which actually burn hotter and some have a very metallic taste and you have to file down the batteries so they will screw on tightly - seems they have a problem if they are telling their customers to "retool" their batts...I have started to order blank carts from another supplier - hopefully they will be better...
  14. Jewel Ship

    Jewel Ship Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 14, 2010
    This right here. They screwed up my order more than once, BUT they made it right in the end. Steve, the owner, even popped in my thread to explain that they had just hired more full time customer service reps, and that if anyone who posted hadn't been taken care of to contact Chad, who would make sure they were. That really is excellent customer service IMO.
  15. WOW

    WOW Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2010
    Actually, if you had a problem with a batt, something I mentioned in my updated review, you made the same mistake I did if you didn't let CS know you couldn't work with their work around on a sporatic issue they had with their old batts. They've since added new batts that don't have that issue, which given the low price, for me, I only had to do once and it took all of 3-5 seconds with the same motion you'd use to clean threads on any batt, but using even the rougher side of a 33 cent dish sponge - once. Regardless, their new batts, stocked after my last batt purchase, don't have thread issues and if you let CS know, they'd have replaced your batt, tried it out before shipping it and paid your ship back costs.

    Your assessment of the CoolCarts is a first. Did you blow out the cart - like you have to on all blanks, before filling it? They label the boxes as CoolCarts and if you don't see that label on the box or the carts are the shorter ones (V4L does stock the same older ones as every other KR808 supplier does because some people prefer them) an un-labelled box are not the CoolCarts and do burn hotter. There is no other supplier that stocks Cool or WOW carts and again, you had the choice to call CS, instead of using something you didn't like then months later, using this 'how-to-not-make-my-mistakes' threads to vent your pent up grievances they would have resolved for you, whether you like their juice or not. They stand behind their products, unconditional to your being a repeat customer. They also package their CoolCarts for sanity return so you would have no problem returning them if you felt you got a bad product. But, ya, if you didn't blow out the cart first, it's gunna taste funky.

    Seems when you say "lately they've added....", since the CoolCarts have been around for a while, (the WOW Carts are new) you either kept using 'metallic tasting' stuff on a broken batt to taste the great juices they have and didn't say anything lately or you have nothing productive to offer about a product you were 'thrilled' with from before "lately" on some(?) things until "lately" and have a complaint you should've directed to CS, not on a review about how much this company's CS will do if there's a defective item in or a problem with a customer's order and how many more ways they've implemented to contact them, whether for a problem or simply to ask about their products, warranty, etc..

    The products' manual, like most other vendors, does not support using e-cigs without informing your physician. If you are pregnant or have certain other medical conditions - even if you've recently had a metal dental filling, e-cigs can effect more than how they taste with great juices, too. No doctor, at least in the US, can legally advocate for any patient using them but they can tell you if you will have problems if you do. (ie - people with pace-makers absolutely are at risk on HV mods and not sure they can use any battery operated device so close their body/people with asthma have to be careful because asthma medication contains nicotine - again just a couple examples)

    If you don't fall into that category, the 'some had problems' just makes no sense because like every vendor that gets a bad batch of something, it effects many people on all of their order and not a here and there kind of thing.

    V4L is not a mod vendor that sells this model as an 'on the side' product. They are the original maker of the Vapor King model, not to be confused with the same name domain, which clearly labels their knock offs as 'NOT THE ORIGINAL VK' and primarily sells mods. - r4fter, I could be mistaken but, it seems a lot of the bizarre complaints are coming from people who confuse the two or decided to mod (which of course is fine - many V4L regulars also have a mod or two - it just doesn't mean V4L is a scum company selling a trash product or leaving customers in the lurch - not by a long shot.)

    Obviously, if you say nothing, you won't get the outstanding CS that tends be thought of something you only get on expensive mods. That's not entirely true. Depends where you purchase a 2-piece analog style or add-on mod. CS at V4L is the best and only conditional to actually letting them know what you need, especially given the volume of customers they have.

    Vaping, being fun, does lend itself to trying out new things but, after this experience, I'm pretty sure V4L is my main vendor/fav style & yes, great juice. Having more fun doesn't always equate with quality and especially for noobies, particularly on a budget and those who hate messy refills, unless you plan to quit vaping, the KR808's are the easiest transition away from analogs and V4L has the most support I've seen offered anywhere. That is the first and last point of vaping. This is a company that gets that.

    It's not easy for noobies or anyone who's never worked with mail-order - there's a learning curve....two if you never trusted mail-order companies. But, if you don't speak up and don't realize how much this company did to improve ways to contact them and, are complaining here, you didn't get the point - contact V4L and, old complainers - move on - you're vaping not smoking analogs.

    My review was updated and is for informational purposes only.
  16. WOW

    WOW Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2010
    You're welcome!

  17. Jewel Ship
    This message by Jewel Ship has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Oct 7, 2010, Reason: OT- Thread derailed.
    Oct 5, 2010
  18. WOW
    This message by WOW has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Oct 7, 2010, Reason: OT- Thread derailed.
    Oct 5, 2010
  19. Jewel Ship
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    Oct 6, 2010
  20. WOW
    This message by WOW has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Oct 7, 2010, Reason: OT- Thread derailed.
    Oct 6, 2010
  21. Xanax
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    Oct 6, 2010
  22. WOW
    This message by WOW has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Oct 7, 2010, Reason: OT- Thread derailed.
    Oct 6, 2010
  23. Jewel Ship
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    Oct 7, 2010
  24. WOW
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    Oct 7, 2010
  25. Jewel Ship
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    Oct 7, 2010
  26. MikeDeason

    MikeDeason Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2010
    I started w/V4Life. In hindsight that was a costly mistake.

    They sell sub par batteries and terrible pre filled cartos and average juices. Their reliability is very hit and miss. Plus their sub forum is cultish.

    There are much better cartos, batts, and juices.

    The only thing I still use from V4Life is PT's on my computer and a 12v in my car.
  27. thelook
    This message by thelook has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Oct 7, 2010, Reason: OT- Thread derailed.
    Oct 7, 2010
  28. paulspikey
    This message by paulspikey has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Oct 7, 2010, Reason: OT- Thread derailed.
    Oct 7, 2010
  29. Warped3k

    Warped3k ECF Administrator
    ECF Live Chat Manager
    Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 25, 2010
    North Carolina, US
    As I believe WOW has had his issues resolved with V4L, I will be closing this thread now. It has been derailed more than enough.

    (WOW, if I read the thread wrong and there is still a pending issue, please PM any of the moderators).
  30. Warped3k

    Warped3k ECF Administrator
    ECF Live Chat Manager
    Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 25, 2010
    North Carolina, US
    I am reopening this thread for WOW, everyone please keep it civil and stay on topic this time.
  31. AlexPerth

    AlexPerth Full Member

    Jan 25, 2010
    Perth, Australia
    V4L have been my primary juice supplier for almost a year.

    I continue to order from them because their juice is really good. The Kamel 24mg is hands down the best tobacco style liquid I have tried. Its my all day vape.

    The WOWVapor range is good, to be honest I dont like the WOW tobacco flavours as much as their standard line, but the fruit flavours are great, I'm loving Caramel Apple and Kiwi Apple Strawberry.
  32. WOW

    WOW Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2010
    First, this just has to be said for newcomers: I can't rate this company low enough.

    Second, I will explain this reversal back to my initial post and then worse. What I will not do is engage in protests about my own experience/my opinion based on facts of my experience, is a factual opinion. By debating these facts, anyone who does, is trying to make the facts 'impossible', 'sick', etc so as to attempt to delegitimize my opinion as made up which then would seem to make my review a joke. A joke is an opinion without facts. The issue is, since I first reviewed V4L, I have been harassed, haranged even stalked so that anything I posted anywhere right/wrong-good/bad/positive-negative I had to say was torn apart until at least 3 threads were closed by ECF mods. I do not care but am saying clearly, it is obvious those who decided that was a great idea, are not only not nice people but primarily many support V4L. Now either there is a reason they can't write their own review thread or they are protecting V4L by trying to hide their own bad experience. Whatever the case may be, pls write your own review. I'm revising mine for the last time because its the right thing to do. I will not reply to any post on this thread. Read that twice. I will not engage in debate or argument over my experience. Period.
    This is for others, particularly newbies to understand the full package you are agreeing to get into should you decide V4L is the only or best supplier of these products.

    Now for the revision

    In my first update, because they were in the process of actually get my 1st order corrected, I extended every leniency possible. I don't think I had one negative to say. They seemed to have set up an easier way to contact them, including skype. Their reasoning that they were backlogged being they moved to a larger office and were hiring new people, seemed to explain and put their very stressed out knee-jerk reactions in a real context. However,

    it wasn't real and of what was real, it wasn't good. It's important to point out that my complaint was posted on their forum at a time several people not only also had complaints but were not giving V4L a fair chance to help them. They SHOUTED and repeatedly posted the same thread over and over and over. I posted once not fully aware of the scope of damage/disruption a few people had escalated(for days) after I posted there. Two wrongs never make a right and be put on their blacklist for a legit concern I needed to know, after 3 months, would be handled since the CS rep R (we'll call him "R") stopped helping me work it out by phone. Everytime I tried to address this, during the last 1-2 months, that was the problem - out of nowhere CS would have a demotion or some other change to explain stopping in the middle of a resolution. This time was different - R had directly told me who we'll call C, could not help me because he had no training. The very next day the person who could not relay a msg when R was busy helping someone else, was assigned the title of Supervisor. That concerned me but it could have been office politics to get that title and C really did have training. I let it slide since it wasn't and still isn't necessary to know. What mattered was C resented everything, every step to rectify the problem and made a point of going out his way to let me know how much he didn't want to resolve anything with me.
    His communication was absolutely horrendous. The owner's didn't exist at all.

    Why mention this? Because I so loudly complimented them on immediately putting other ways of reaching them explained as intended to help improve communication, which also warranted my seeing their side as a temporary stress but, AFTER I revised my review, very slowly.....before anyone posted about using Skype the sticky about it was deleted. I asked in passing, what happened to it and that seemed to set C off again. It then also occurred to me, their new ticket-email was not on an encrypted page, threatening the privacy of my email, physical address etc, and apparently V4L keeps every email and was doing this before using a 'ticket service' -iow, three months of back and forth emails that on any order I had a question about, I attached the verification of purchase to - all of my private information was on every one of those invoices and all of those invoices were no longer kept in their physical off-line database but placed on an unencrypted page with zero security on an open www page. It did nothing to improve CS's harsh even exploitive language but it did increase my BP. After speaking with my bank, it was determined the nature of their upgrade, compromised the security of my CC and it's a big PITA that isn't even a free service to have a new cc # assigned to your account that also freezes your funds until you activate it as a safety measure. Their 'upgrade' cost me approximately $25 to re-secure my cc, not counting fees to withdraw enough to cover my ... until all the info required got in my mailbox.

    So....while they got the hardware resolved - sort of - when I ordered again (Oct1) that pkg was lost/never reached the PO. They issued a replacement after the ETA doubled, had the PO scan it on the 6th but it wasn't in the mail that day. It was bulk shipped on the 7th and also temporarily lost. It was under 10 oz and I don't know the weight cut off but I easily got everything into a 1st class envelope. I asked if it could be shipped first class so I would have it by Columbus Day weekend. I was told not to worry. The reality was the replacement the way they shipped didn't have a chance of reaching me until the following Tuesday, tripling the ship time. Imagine it was your juice and you have no stock and the PO, itself, suggests you request a refund. There's a point when you have to say, not every last issue with hardware or whatever is the fault of USPS, V4L can't say that. People post about getting hand-written personal apologies and I don't think they are real customers given the way I've been treated. I think there a some fake accounts to prop them up because of C's gutter mouth, hateful attitude that blamed me - they usually blame UPS but they blamed me, did not issue a refund but claimed they did and knowing that there was no refund, requested I return the package. Further, through that long weekend, my updated review rating them with 5*'s on what they wanted myself and anyone who read my review to think + positive posts (I was too exhausted to ask them how a replacement batt that was fine one day could become melted out of shape the next) - C didn't know this and unless he reads this won't know this - proceeded to pm me that I NEVER had anything good to say about them. He also took issue with my first post claiming that I made it look like they didn't know what they are doing.
    They don't but, blaming me for the truth vs REALLY fixing their CS problems is not something they intend on doing. The owner was more interested in socializing on their forum than taking two seconds to acknowledge C has a serious problem and it isn't me though I'm convinced they wish it were so much they are intent of proving it.

    For example, after very simply requesting a refund explaining it might be faster to order juice since at that point the PO had no record of my package and it could take up to an additional week, if they could find it(the issue was the date it was called in didn't match when it actually shipped and the PO gets a ton of bulk packages though they did locate it, it took four days for them to electronically go through two days of bulk mail rather than one day). I told C not the ship a 3rd replacement and having agreed to pay the extra cost if they ever found the 1st missing mailer, I wouldn't be ordering from them for a while. The belligerent reply I got by pm, was "you need to relax" (denying there was a problem as well as my consumer rights to have an immediate credit issued, as well as a request to not order from V4L again because I had nothing good to say, which was a blatent lie. So, what was the point of them finally getting the 1st order right and knowing I was out of juice to not even consider like "once you find another vendor that works out you might want to try using them" not a completely rude unacceptable lack of CS approach. (and I never had a juice complaint that no one else did, so it never made sense in the first place)

    So far on shipping times - deliberate - they messed up my order
    Return policy - non-existent except in their imagination
    Privacy policy - shot to smitherines and cost me $25 to deal with to protect myself.
    Communication - vile, abusive, obtuse, unrelated to my question/s about what was going on, misinformation so I would revise my first post quickly - very selfish.

    Initially V4L presented itself both in their forum and to the media as being inspired to help others because it's owner lost not one, but BOTH parents to cancer caused by smoking. Now, if that is true or not, it's not okay to hit in that area of someone's life. The reality is there was initially an enormous concern that gave me the sense this company had their consumers best interests at heart - for whatever reason. Not shipping a replacement order separate from their bulk mailings and telling me they did by phone being told it was going out in that am's first pick up then not keeping true to that, had me back on anaolgs and seriously questioning how concerned V4L is but it took a culmative set of serious mistakes to get to that point. They like to think of themselves as a family and if you are consumer of their products or services you become a part of their family. And it used to be like in a family, a place where people forgave mistakes and didn't diss other people who had a complaint. But, they say mixing business and family is not a good idea. I understand by heart, why it isn't and that means CS has to be professional, which it used to be - no one is perfect but no one was screaming at customers, dissing them, lying, etc.. No one would dare risk a customer slipping back to analogs by deliberately holding up a package. I'd have guessed the owner would intervene to help correct that sort of thing but no more.

    Again, I can't rate this company low enough. Because also it was a mistake on their part to reach, albeit a different agreement than reached with R on my shipping broken things back because they compromised my security and asked me not to place orders again, they blocked the only way they had available to them to reimburse my shipping, which was the agreement. Left open like they did, I also think was deliberate so they could falsely claim I stole stuff that actually worked. I aksed them to snail-mail a shipping label like "would you mind/is that doable?" - No response which seems to say they don't appreciate their agreements and are more inclined or prefer to create lies as a defense of some seriously bad CS.

    It worked out better for me to let go of this vendor's shackles. In that sense I feel much freer than I ever have using my one melted battery and that feeling is something I never realized is very important to vaping happy. It was not worth the aggravation, the stress or the implied threats when it could have and should have been a simple business transaction. Their CS looses it every so many complaints. I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time trying to deal with a company that in reality, has no excuse, whatsoever,
    for blaming vs honoring their policies as well as verbal agreements.

    'nuff said. Avoid this company's gimmicks because they do not play straight as per my initial and this post.

    Sad but, I can't justify saying nothing and encouraging by omission any newbie using my first update as a valid reason to get stuck with V4L. It happens more you might think but anyone who works with them, you're going to have to find your own reasons. They and other ECF V4L members who sought revenge over the truth, made my 2nd chance update, completely invalid and meaningless, within mere weeks.

    That's it. Far worse than even an -F. I totally can't support a vendor + owner who are both digging in a hole to get out at my expense.

    Again if you don't like it, ECF allows everyone, equally to write their own review.

    Thank-you very much, warped3k It just had to be said. Thanks . :)

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