Samsung INR21700-30T 35A 3000mAh 21700 Bench Test Results...an incredible 40A 3100mAh battery!

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Apr 17, 2017.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    To prevent any confusion with the eGo-type "batteries", I use the term "cell" here to refer to a single 18350, 18650, 20700/21700, 26650, etc.

    While the test results are hard data, the conclusions and recommendations I make based on these tests are only my personal opinion based on my criteria for setting a rating. Carefully research any cell you are considering using before purchasing.

    Testing cells at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved and how to minimize them.

    If the cell has only one current rating number on it, or if it says "max" then I have to assume that the company is stating that the cell can be discharged at that current level in any way, including continuously.

    IMG_4986.JPG IMG_4987.JPG IMG_4988.JPG IMG_4989.JPG


    Bottom Line
    This is a 21700 cell (21mm diameter x 70mm length) that is an incredible performer, running over 20% longer at 30A continuous than the Sanyo NCR20700A thanks to its incredibly low internal resistance of 10-12mOhms. This low internal resistance reduces voltage sag, letting the 30T run for longer before the voltage drops too far.

    As is typical for a Samsung cell, I consider it to be underrated due to it running cooler than others at its factory rating. I am rating this Samsung 30T at 40A and 3100mAh. Its maximum vaping amps (MVA) rating is 60A, limited by temperature.

    My thanks to EnerCig (www.enercig.com) for donating the two cells for testing! These cells hopefully will be available in a few weeks. I will post updates if I have any other news regarding their availability.


    Continuous-Current Test Results
    IMG_4999.PNG


    Pulse-Current Test Results
    IMG_5001.PNG A IMG_5002.PNG


    Datasheet Specifications
    IMG_4998.jpg


    Comparison to the 30A 3000mAh Sanyo NCR20700A
    IMG_5003.PNG


    Comments
    • At 10A continuous this cell delivered about 2970mAh. This is significantly above average for a high-performance 3000mAh cell so I am rating it at 3100mAh.
    • Its temperature of 78°C at 40A continuous is the average for cells being operated at their rating so I am rating this cell at 40A.
    To see how other cells have tested and how hard you can safely push them, check out these links: List of Battery Tests | E-Cigarette Forum
     
    MacTechVpr, MikeyConti, Eskie and 8 others like this.
  2. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hunterwasser
    Holy crap batman, that's good performance.
     
  3. Konstantinos Kazantzoglou

    Konstantinos Kazantzoglou Full Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Athens Greece
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 20, 2011
    Dartmouth
    40a...40. I need more coffee to let that sink in a little.

    I gotta 3d print a mod for this monster, well, 2 of them, in series, with a pwm.
     
    Eskie likes this.
  5. Eskie

    Eskie Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 6, 2016
    NY
    Great performance. Is the 1 mm difference going to create problems in the marketplace for which standard to be accommodated, the 20700 or 21700, or is it not so much different so the battery sleds can be the same?
     
  6. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I don't know. That can only be answered by the manufacturers.
     
    Eskie likes this.
  7. Eskie

    Eskie Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 6, 2016
    NY
    Yeah, it was more a rhetorical question. We've had stable choices with 18650s for some time that varying "standards" are going to become less then optimal. At least with better performance.
     
  8. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    May 3, 2016
    What's up? :)

    Lil question aimed at Mooch.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I can observe small voltage differences between your test graph and HKJ's one. HKJ uses 4 terminal battery holders (BF-2A 4-Wire Battery Charge/Discharge Fixture Holder Clamp @FastTech), with central direct battery terminal contact voltage probes inserted in cylindrical plastic fastening parts (the parts which melt at 50+A :blush: ). I observed this yesterday while I was making one of my dissertations: When do you Replace Batteries?

    Summing it up: I see ≈80mV less at the 0.62Ah point in your 40A curve compared to HKJ's one. Besides the fact that for obvious reasons your batteries were different, this led me to believe there is a ≈2mΩ total current path between your battery terminal contacts and wherever your voltage measuring probes are. [​IMG]
    Is this reasoning anywhere near right? Could you elaborate on this a little more? [​IMG]
    Thanks.

    Cheers :)
     
  9. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Sorry, I have no idea of what the differences are in the parasitic resistances of our setup's.
    Since we used different batteries, possibly at different ambient temperatures which affects the internal resistancevand voltage sag, trying to quantify the differences in our setups is problematic at best.

    My 12AWG voltage sensing leads handle 1/10 of the discharge current so there will be a voltage drop there though.

    No two setups will give you the same results making comparing them hard to do. However, a good tester will provide consistent results. This lets you very accurately compare the relative performance of the batteries that tester has tested.

    For the most "accurate" results you have to test the battery in the application/device it will be used in.
     
    B2L, KenD, petrotech and 1 other person like this.
  10. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    May 3, 2016
    No problems understanding this mate. A few weeks ago we were discussing holder related issues in HKJ's NCR20700A review at BLF. Suggested him getting one of those beautiful holders “AMDtrucking style”, though he preferred the 4 terminal setups.
    We'll see how does he deals with the overheating issue. Maybe some custom crafted ceramic voltage probe holders. Anyway for setups like yours, if the battery terminals to probes resistance is accurately known, offsetting the charts can be made easy, I believe.
    Keep up the beautiful work. :)

    Cheers [​IMG]
     
  11. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Thanks!
    I have considered calibrating out the offset but that would then make obsolete every test I have done to date as the previous results could no longer be directly compared to any new test results.

    Consistency and repeatability can be more important than accuracy, though accuracy is certainly important too. To keep all my test results valid as a way to compare the relative performance of any of the batteries I test I will probably need to keep my setup as is.

    Every tester has offsets, inaccuracies, and variability in their test results. I'll always tell everyone that they have to find the tester whose setup and methodology best matches what they're looking for. Though results from several testers can often be compared to fill in certain missing info from any one particular tester.
     
    MacTechVpr and KenD like this.
  12. louiesquared

    louiesquared Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2015
    Los Angeles
    With these new batteries could we start to see higher wattage single battery regulated devices?
     
  13. BreSha6869

    BreSha6869 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 21, 2015
    Toronto, Canada
    Glad I bought 40+ Single 18650 tube mechs. :(

    Actually, I am pretty happy with LG/Samsung 18650 performance but would definately be interested in a dual 21700 regulated device with these 30-T's!
     
    MacTechVpr likes this.
  14. ApolloKen

    ApolloKen Full Member

    Apr 1, 2017
    I was just saying how amazing a 40a battery would be and how stoked I'd be, then I read this. Amazing! Thanks Mooch! Any idea when these cells will be available?
     
  15. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Hopefully by July.
     
    B2L likes this.
  16. Microzod

    Microzod Full Member

    Jan 4, 2017
    Sweden
    Hello Mooch.
    I would like to ask you about the Samsung INR21700-30T.
    Those batteries datasheet indicates a discharge voltage of 2,5V.
    What I wonder is this:
    Does the discharge specification of 2.5V allow me to safely have a regulated MOD to operate until a battery voltage of 2.5V is detected?
    Or are there any reason for stopping the device from further draining the cells at 2.6V (2.5V + margin)?
     
  17. ApolloKen

    ApolloKen Full Member

    Apr 1, 2017
    The mod won't let you if ya using regulated. U will get low battery issues before it discharges that low most likely
     
  18. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    1) Yes. But the lowest cutoff I've ever seen in a mod was 2.8V and the typical value is 3.1V-3.2V.

    2) Yes. Going below about 2.5V accelerates the degradation and aging of the cell. Going below about 2.0V causes the copper electrode to start dissolving. The copper can then plate onto parts of the battery it shouldn't. This can degrade performance and even cause an internal short circuit.
     
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