SE, NJoy vs FDA -- Discussion
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The both of these briefs overlook the fact that according tho the FDA ALL cigarettes are in fact a drug / device combination. That was the entire Brown and Williamson case.
Also. I love that this is the first argument from all the alphabet soup people:
It's just great that their very first argument states in plain bold text that after 50 years of the present pharmaceutical / FDA alliance, they have come up with nothing even remotely effective.
Also. I love that this is the first argument from all the alphabet soup people:
It's just great that their very first argument states in plain bold text that after 50 years of the present pharmaceutical / FDA alliance, they have come up with nothing even remotely effective.
It showed that there was a docket entry for today, but there was nothing actually entered. 
This happened once before, and it was an error/glitch.
So, no movement on the docket.
This happened once before, and it was an error/glitch.So, no movement on the docket.
Well, I'm not able to access the server . . . I'm not sure what's the problem, but we all know how the internet is. I'll keep trying, but I'm not expecting much of anything for a bit in any event.
I'll keep trying, but I'm not expecting much of anything for a bit in any event.
Not surprisingly, nothing new on the docket.
I'm going to be out of town this week, so Treece will be checking on the docket and keeping this thread updated.
I'm going to be out of town this week, so Treece will be checking on the docket and keeping this thread updated.
Thanks for being the sub for the sub Treece!
You're welcome, Storm. No trouble at all to be the sub's sub, especially when there's been no movement on the docket, as is the case (so to speak) today.
- Apr 2, 2009
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Yolanda wrote:
Woodcock is the FDA's "expert",
She's also grossly misrepresenting the evidence, as I've sent her about fifty documents about e-cigarettes during the past 15 months that she has conveniently ignored.
Woodcock is the FDA's "expert",
She's also grossly misrepresenting the evidence, as I've sent her about fifty documents about e-cigarettes during the past 15 months that she has conveniently ignored.
Just a thought. I realize there are great organizations supporting eCigs, but I've yet to find a Website that is dedicated to personal testimonials of people who use it with success and no health effects.
And since there's no real compilation of these voices, we're essentially being silenced by not speaking more loudly.
It seems such a site could be a useful tool to SE & Njoy in their case to say - "Hey, look - beyond the petitions, this web site has tens of thousands of people professing the opposite of what the FDA is saying..."
I realize this forum is technically that, but I'm thinking more from a packaging perspective where the site is dedicated only to that message - almost like twitter where people can post their profile, then tell their success story...
Anyone think this idea is worth pursuing? I'm a Web developer by trade, so I could whip it up in no time if there's a consensus that people would actually use it.
And since there's no real compilation of these voices, we're essentially being silenced by not speaking more loudly.
It seems such a site could be a useful tool to SE & Njoy in their case to say - "Hey, look - beyond the petitions, this web site has tens of thousands of people professing the opposite of what the FDA is saying..."
I realize this forum is technically that, but I'm thinking more from a packaging perspective where the site is dedicated only to that message - almost like twitter where people can post their profile, then tell their success story...
Anyone think this idea is worth pursuing? I'm a Web developer by trade, so I could whip it up in no time if there's a consensus that people would actually use it.
Great idea! We have over 1,700 comments on ecigs from the CASAA Electronic Cigarette User Survey and over 2,000 comments on the http://EcigsSaveLives.info petition site. I'll talk to the board and see about somehow linking to those or adding them to the CASAA.org web site! 
I hope people will continue to add their comments about ecigs to http://ecigssavelives.info as well!!
Not to detract, because it's a great idea, but a site like that really wouldn't do anything for the SE case. Things like that are too easily faked and anecdotal comments seem to have no impact on the FDA or the Axis of Evil unless they are negative comments.
Having the stories posted somewhere would have a great impact on recruiting new ecig users and making everyday doubters feel a little better about it, though. Sort of like buying from a seller on eBay who has a lot of positive feedback comments!
I'd love to see it on or linked to the CASAA.org website, where people could also see the positive news articles, reports and studies, too.
I hope people will continue to add their comments about ecigs to http://ecigssavelives.info as well!!
Not to detract, because it's a great idea, but a site like that really wouldn't do anything for the SE case. Things like that are too easily faked and anecdotal comments seem to have no impact on the FDA or the Axis of Evil unless they are negative comments.
Having the stories posted somewhere would have a great impact on recruiting new ecig users and making everyday doubters feel a little better about it, though. Sort of like buying from a seller on eBay who has a lot of positive feedback comments!
I'd love to see it on or linked to the CASAA.org website, where people could also see the positive news articles, reports and studies, too.
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I would contribute my experience. I think it's a great idea. E-cigs have given me my first success at quitting analogs in almost 40 years. Now, I live in constant fear of the e-cigapocalypse and spend undue time trying to sear DIY juice and atty rebuilding threads into my brain.
So, please, DO IT!!
So, please, DO IT!!
thanks for the feedback...
i hear you on the fakery and what not...but my assumption is that faking a bunch of profiles for positive ecig use would lean toward the minority of the users...
and i have all ready signed the petition here:
http://ecigssavelives.info
even this is helpful:
A Petition for the AAP, ACS, AHA, American Legacy Foundation, ALA, AMA, ASH, FDA, Public Citizen and Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids to change their policy and support the sale and use of ecigarettes as a reduced harm option for committed adult smoker
but the idea would be to take that same page/idea and give it the Web 2.0 experience...give a stronger graphical approach and include more info from users so it's more authentic looking...rather than just a 1st last name...people can put their homepages, AIM/email if they like...
i guess what i'm thinking is essentially a facebook style site for eCig users...focused on shouting out about our positive experience. Sure, it may never be admitted to court, but at the same rate - if enough people get behind it...we can certainly ensure it won't be ignored...
i mean - i was a 10 year 2 pack a day tobacco smoker and literally quit overnight the moment i started vaping the JOYE510. It wasn't even challenging...and my health has vastly improved...
I also know this is the case with most eCig users and hate to see experiences like this not get the sunlight they deserve...I'm in the business of internet traffic brokering and design/branding...and was just thinking if my talents could be put to some real use here...
Web 2.0 sure did wonders for that Obama guy!
i hear you on the fakery and what not...but my assumption is that faking a bunch of profiles for positive ecig use would lean toward the minority of the users...
and i have all ready signed the petition here:
http://ecigssavelives.info
even this is helpful:
A Petition for the AAP, ACS, AHA, American Legacy Foundation, ALA, AMA, ASH, FDA, Public Citizen and Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids to change their policy and support the sale and use of ecigarettes as a reduced harm option for committed adult smoker
but the idea would be to take that same page/idea and give it the Web 2.0 experience...give a stronger graphical approach and include more info from users so it's more authentic looking...rather than just a 1st last name...people can put their homepages, AIM/email if they like...
i guess what i'm thinking is essentially a facebook style site for eCig users...focused on shouting out about our positive experience. Sure, it may never be admitted to court, but at the same rate - if enough people get behind it...we can certainly ensure it won't be ignored...
i mean - i was a 10 year 2 pack a day tobacco smoker and literally quit overnight the moment i started vaping the JOYE510. It wasn't even challenging...and my health has vastly improved...
I also know this is the case with most eCig users and hate to see experiences like this not get the sunlight they deserve...I'm in the business of internet traffic brokering and design/branding...and was just thinking if my talents could be put to some real use here...
Web 2.0 sure did wonders for that Obama guy!
It's a great idea, and we could easily start with stories from this thread...
E-Cigarette Success Stories - E-Cigarette Forum
And I have seen a TON of even better stories here in the New Member section.
I imagine we would have to get permission from those that have posted these stories.
But I don't know, once they post their story here it might be public domain?
Anyway, getting their permission to use their actual names would be even more powerful.
And if they don't want to give their names it could just be labled "anonymous" if needed.
If this effort gets going, I could work on finding such stories and PMing the posters for permission.
E-Cigarette Success Stories - E-Cigarette Forum
And I have seen a TON of even better stories here in the New Member section.
I imagine we would have to get permission from those that have posted these stories.
But I don't know, once they post their story here it might be public domain?
Anyway, getting their permission to use their actual names would be even more powerful.
And if they don't want to give their names it could just be labled "anonymous" if needed.
If this effort gets going, I could work on finding such stories and PMing the posters for permission.
that's what I'm talkin' about! and a good start...
anyone have any idea how many users on on this board?
it could be a really powerful thread...
i'm just thinking there has to be a way to get really vocal about how awesome this product is and how it's helping a great majority of people...
rather than have to listen to FDA spin about the dangers - which are completely unfounded...
anyone have any idea how many users on on this board?
it could be a really powerful thread...
i'm just thinking there has to be a way to get really vocal about how awesome this product is and how it's helping a great majority of people...
rather than have to listen to FDA spin about the dangers - which are completely unfounded...
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