SE, NJoy vs FDA -- Discussion

[kristin]

Forgive me, because I'm really not trying to be adversarial - just thinking of ways that this could be made more effective overall for ecig advocacy (that's what I do, afterall. ) I know you would like to use your talents to help, but I fear duplicate efforts would diffuse efforts rather than enhance them.

Are you familiar with CASAA's goals and our web site?

CASAA is a non-profit organization that works to ensure the availability of reduced harm alternatives to smoking and to provide smokers and non-smokers alike with truthful information about such alternatives.
Our mission is to ensure the availability of effective, affordable and reduced harm alternatives to smoking by increasing public awareness and education; to encourage the testing and development of products to achieve acceptable safety standards and reasonable regulation; and to promote the benefits of reduced harm alternatives.

Within this site you will find published news stories, scientific studies, links and campaign materials to help in the fight to keep electronic cigarettes and other harm reduction methods publicly available.​

ecig education and awareness are what we are all about!

I really think the CASAA site would be an ideal place to build this web 2.0 platform and they could help each other. (Our president is also a web developer.)

I'm not suggesting this just because I'm a CASAA member, but because I think the two could work really well togther. The CASAA site is getting a ton of exposure with 3,400 CASAA members and growing. We have a database to which we can email and suggest people go to the new comments area to give their story. It's also a neutral place for vendors to send their customers for information, as there are no competeing vendors like on the forums.

There would be high visibility to new ecig users, legislators, media and people doing research.

I'm going to suggest this to the CASAA board and I think they will love the idea. We could probably have something up and running within a number of days.

Just imagine if people going to read the ecig user comments also had immediate access to all of the information and links found on casaa.org! It would also be a great way to draw more attention to CASAA and their efforts.

Would you consider either letting CASAA use your idea or work with us on a web 2.0 committee for CASAA?

PS. As far as the fakery - I wasn't suggesting that users would fake their comments, but the accusation is easily made by our opposition that the comments are faked.​

thanks for the feedback...

i hear you on the fakery and what not...but my assumption is that faking a bunch of profiles for positive ecig use would lean toward the minority of the users...

and i have all ready signed the petition here:
E-Cigarettes Save Lives - A Petition for Policy Change

even this is helpful:
A Petition for the AAP, ACS, AHA, American Legacy Foundation, ALA, AMA, ASH, FDA, Public Citizen and Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids to change their policy and support the sale and use of ecigarettes as a reduced harm option for committed adult smoker

but the idea would be to take that same page/idea and give it the Web 2.0 experience...give a stronger graphical approach and include more info from users so it's more authentic looking...rather than just a 1st last name...people can put their homepages, AIM/email if they like...

i guess what i'm thinking is essentially a facebook style site for eCig users...focused on shouting out about our positive experience. Sure, it may never be admitted to court, but at the same rate - if enough people get behind it...we can certainly ensure it won't be ignored...

i mean - i was a 10 year 2 pack a day tobacco smoker and literally quit overnight the moment i started vaping the JOYE510. It wasn't even challenging...and my health has vastly improved...

I also know this is the case with most eCig users and hate to see experiences like this not get the sunlight they deserve...I'm in the business of internet traffic brokering and design/branding...and was just thinking if my talents could be put to some real use here...

Web 2.0 sure did wonders for that Obama guy!

 

[Synthnadz]

I actually think that positioning this 'social platform-to-be' as strictly user-centric may be a better idea than attaching it to CASAA, in all truth. The second you connect a platform to an organization - regardless of what the organization stands for - you run the risk of appearing to be 'staged' or pushing an alternative agenda. Even though the agenda here is a positive one, it may very well reduce the viability of coming off as the 'voice of the people'.

Make sense?

 

[Treece]

Nothing on the docket today. Went in and heard a pin drop.

 

[Lithium1330]

About branddiablo's idea, it would be great to do something like this, please keep it simple and redistributable, if this platform has a way to share feeds maybe in a widget style for other sites to use, it would be very good.

About Kristin's idea to attach it to casaa.org, Kristin in this days the key is not for a centralized site to put all the effort, but to make this sites interactive with other sites, look at twitter and facebook for an example, you can use your twitter account to interact and post to facebook and viceversa.

If this new site has a way to share feeds with other sites then not only CASAA could use it, also us at RightToVape could be using it and everybody else, we could even share users implementing something like OpenId or facebook connect or via twitter, the possibilities are tremendous.

When a user registers on one site, we could implement something for that user to be registered also on the whole advocacy sites network (if they want), when a user post their testimonial on this to-be-created new site all the other sites could retrieve their story via feeds, there is not a reason for this not to happen, it can be done.

 

[kristin]

I actually think that positioning this 'social platform-to-be' as strictly user-centric may be a better idea than attaching it to CASAA, in all truth. The second you connect a platform to an organization - regardless of what the organization stands for - you run the risk of appearing to be 'staged' or pushing an alternative agenda. Even though the agenda here is a positive one, it may very well reduce the viability of coming off as the 'voice of the people'.

Make sense?

I guess so. I'm not sure if that's true in this case though.

Either way, I think a comments section for CASAA would be a good idea, as well, so I thank Branddiablo for making the suggestion. I look forward to seeing what he comes up with.

Vapers already have comments made all over the web, between the many forums, article comments and petitions, so a couple more places couldn't hurt.

 

[kristin]

About branddiablo's idea, it would be great to do something like this, please keep it simple and redistributable, if this platform has a way to share feeds maybe in a widget style to other sites to use, it would be very good.

About Treecee's idea to attach it to casaa.org, Treecee in this days the key is not for a centralized site to put all the effort, but to make this sites interactive with other sites, look at twitter and facebook for an example, you can use your twitter account to interact and post to facebook and viceversa.

If this new site has a way to share feeds with other sites then not only CASAA could use it, also us at RightToVape could be using it and everybody else, we could even share users implementing something like OpenId or facebook connect or via twitter, the possibilities are tremendous.

When a user registers on one site, we could implement something for that user to be registered also on the whole advocacy sites network (if they want), when a user post their testimonial on this to-be-created new site all the other sites could retrieve their story via feeds, there is not a reason for this not to happen, it can be done.

Oops - don't blame the CASAA idea on poor Treece, lol!

I'm not opposed to a syndicate at all!

Good to hear RightToVape is becoming more active again!

 

[Lithium1330]

Oops - don't blame the CASAA idea on poor Treece, lol!

I'm not opposed to a syndicate at all!

Good to hear RightToVape is becoming more active again!

I meant Kristin, not Treecee, sorry.

 

[thephoenix]

hey, all! Geeze I took a quick nap and missed out on all the fun...

thanks for the feedback...

i would love to work with CASAA in some facet. that would be really amazing.

thinking it over, i feel that Synthnadz & Lithium1330 have solid points in that it should be "user grown"...i feel if it spawns from an organization then it could have the effects Synthnadz spoke of...

as if we looked at the flip side...if the FDA had a simlar counter site, we'd all pan it as spin...but if there was a legitimize user site "killedbyvape" created by anti-ecig users...it would have a little more grit...just my opinion tho...

the obvious difference here though is the CASAA is not a power hungry, corrupt organization...but an organization that truly would use such a tool for good...so a similar site on CASAA would be very slick. Your site is very well done, so this could add a nice angle to it...

but back to the social network idea, I think if it grows organically from users and comes with a strong CASAA & Right To Vape endorsement - now that would be hot! and I also don't think we'd be competing against one another regardless of where it ends up...

kristin (and everyone else), are you interested in speaking about this more via PM? I didn't mean to clog up the thread about the docket with this idea...was just trying to see if there'd be interest....

i just purchased a good URL I think might be a good spot for it...and Lithium1330's idea of a multi feed platform is really killer! i may even have some php mods on the shelf that can to this automatically...

any other users who have ideas or would like to be a part of beta testing, please PM me!

i think this is a very cool idea & would like to fund a beta test...it will take a few days to get live...

would be cool if it actually sticks!

 

[Treece]

All's quiet on the docket front. Have a great weekend, everyone.

 

[JustJulie]

So how many ways are there to say that there's been no movement on the docket?

So quiet on the docket, you could hear a pin drop.

Thanks, Treece, for being the sub for the sub.

 

[JustJulie]

You guys are a riot.

NJOY and SE's brief is due Wednesday, so hopefully there were will be something interesting to talk about pretty soon. Elendil will be cleaning up the thread sometime Tuesday so that those who don't check in every day don't have to wade through announcements in Spanish, Italian, German, Morse Code, and Pig Latin.

 

[JustJulie]

in the olden days it had to be so serious and well gloomy...no offence Sun...the by play was needed, though i do miss the SunVapor putting out explaining goverment red tape and legal procedings.

I, too, found much of the commentary on the thread rather gloomy, which is kind of frustrating because while the rulings along the way certainly are important, it really does come down to the final ruling, and we're still a ways away from that.

Most of the government red tape and legal proceedings has already been discussed and debated, so there's probably not much more to add on that score. Although if anyone has any specific questions about the legal aspects, I hope they'll post. I'm no longer practicing law, so I'm a bit rusty (and that's being kind), and on top of that, appellate work was never my expertise, but Yvilla does have an expertise in that area (as well as a phenomenal working knowledge of the various statutes and case law impacting this case). Me, I'm just here to check the docket and report back.

so in that vain, JJ, hows about going out for a drink, a drink before the brief to J. leon drink? i got a set of ScrewDrivers with some aw batts...20 or so e-liquids...

LOL. My guess is that we'll be very serious and on topic for several days, then we'll have a bit of fun again, and Elendil will eventually come and clean the decks again so that we can get ready for the amicus brief July 8th, and then another quick cleanup before the FDA's response brief July 22nd.

ps. jonathan w. emord just might be my new hero...

Me, too.

 

[JustJulie]

Well, not exactly movement on the docket today, but an Entry of Appearance was filed for several attorneys for NJOY from the law firm of Latham & Watkins LLP, no doubt in anticipation of the filing of the brief on Wednesday. Same law firm, so no real excitement.

 

[Elendil]

OK--The "janitor" has made his rounds so between now and the expected docket tomorrow(6/23), please carry any extraneous discussion to the overflow thread....
Thanks

 

[JustJulie]

Well, in a somewhat surprising turn of events, SE filed for a voluntary dismissal from the case. Apparently, it filed in the district court last week, and I missed it because it never occurred to me that anything exciting would happen in the district court while the matter is on appeal. Today, SE filed notice of the dismissal in the Court of Appeals (document attached).

No, this is not good news. On the other hand, it's not devastating. NJOY is still very much in the game, and it will be filing its brief tomorrow.

And, yes, I will check the docket a couple of times during the day and post the brief as soon as it becomes available.

 

[Janetda]

Do we think this is because they are out of money?

 

[JustJulie]

Do we think this is because they are out of money?

Your guess is as good as mine. Ultimately, though, all we need is a single plaintiff . . . after all, that's how the case started, with just one plaintiff.

 

[boxhead]

well well well...i wondered about something like this back in may. what would SE do now, to get a new action against FDA now? along first admendment lines maybe? is there a legal reason for SE to have a new law suit or not?

 

[JustJulie]

24-hour filing is probably great for the lawyers . . . but not so great for the docket-watchers. NJOY's brief still hasn't hit the PACER system yet, but I'll check again later this evening.

However, the Court of Appeals did announce the date for oral arguments: September 23rd, 2010.

 

[JustJulie]

NJOY's brief is attached.

Edited: Well, no, it's not . . . upload failed. *sigh* I'll keep trying.