I would Strongly Disagree.
I believe the FDA Knows EXACTLY what it is Doing. And any Ignorance or Mis-Understandings they may portray is just Plausible Deniability.
FDA Sen Johnson (R-Wis) demands answers from FDA RE deeming
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I would Strongly Disagree.
I believe the FDA Knows EXACTLY what it is Doing. And any Ignorance or Mis-Understandings they may portray is just Plausible Deniability.
I've met with Sen. Johnson's committee several times since the rule went final, and they are being very diligent on this. They do realize the limits of their oversight however, and are considering other options. They can introduce legislation to change the date, or create a workable pathway to approval for new products.
The 8/8 date does not change the ability to write new law changing anything FDA has already decided. The missing ingredient is still vapers getting off the couch. Several Senators I met with have said they were disappointed that they have not heard much from constituents about this. That's just sad given the scope of damage this reg will do to both business and health.
The 8/8 date does not change the ability to write new law changing anything FDA has already decided. The missing ingredient is still vapers getting off the couch. Several Senators I met with have said they were disappointed that they have not heard much from constituents about this. That's just sad given the scope of damage this reg will do to both business and health.
Evidently those senators are aware of the issues? Their disappointment shouldn't preclude the use of their own brains. Sounds like a typical cop out.
For those that have not figured it out yet, the FDA is no longer there for our protection. Seems its main purpose lately, well for quite a while now, is to solicit what most would consider bribe money as a gateway for nefarious organizations, companies, and persons.
It is a money machine. Pure and simple. We The People, count for not one moment of their time and efforts!
Knife
It is a money machine. Pure and simple. We The People, count for not one moment of their time and efforts!
Knife
Yeah... Kinda Sounds like an Excuse to Me.
If e-Cigarettes truly are about Health and Business (in that Order), and if the FDA is Overstepping their Responsibility and the Authority that has been granted to them, then it Shouldn't take Any Calls from Constituents for House and Senate Members to Act.
Because Isn't that why they are Elected? To act on behalf of the Public they are Supposed to Represent?
I find it hard to believe there are any Senators who haven't heard from their constituents about this. Every CTA CASAA has issued regarding HR2058 and the Cole-Bishop amendment has included Senators as well as Representatives. Now, I know participation in CTA's isn't great, but there is participation. I guess it depends on your definition of "much."
It would be nice if they just evaluated that the regulations are bad, will kill an industry, and likely their constituents, and fix it on their own...
Keep in mind that all legislators DO NOT ever read emails from their constituients. They have aides do that. Very rarely do those aides relay emails or letters up the ladder to their boss unless an issue is on the hotplate publicly in the media.
That was told to me by one of my Dad's closest friends of over 40 years, long time Congressman John LaFalce of NY.
vaping hasnt been on the media radar other than the age requirements. And it is a direct failure of public relations of organizations representing vapers that is responsible for that. They just are not media savvy and refused to hire experts.
This battle is a PR battle. They wanna waste millions on lawsuits instead of thousands on PR And media.
That letter or email you were sent in reply wasnt read, written, or even approved by your elected official. Even if it sounded or was worded like he/she did. Its all based of general standard talking points created by staff in their office. Remember politicians pander. They dont want to sound too pro or con on any issue until they need to be on one side or the other for either 1) Money or 2) publicity. In that order.
They havent heard from their constituients because the staff in their office hasnt seen enough sway one way or the other, OR they have been bought under the table and want to appear impartial.
If a pro vaping media attitude existed (created by PR) then you would see results. I have said it all along, our organizations have no knowledge or experience in doing any of this correctly. They are VERY well intentioned but they are very misguided and cant see how they are missing their biggest and cheapest weapon in this fight. They need to stop "playing" as experts in PR and media, swallow pride and admit they are clueless, in wayyy over their heads, and actually HIRE real experts.
That was told to me by one of my Dad's closest friends of over 40 years, long time Congressman John LaFalce of NY.
vaping hasnt been on the media radar other than the age requirements. And it is a direct failure of public relations of organizations representing vapers that is responsible for that. They just are not media savvy and refused to hire experts.
This battle is a PR battle. They wanna waste millions on lawsuits instead of thousands on PR And media.
That letter or email you were sent in reply wasnt read, written, or even approved by your elected official. Even if it sounded or was worded like he/she did. Its all based of general standard talking points created by staff in their office. Remember politicians pander. They dont want to sound too pro or con on any issue until they need to be on one side or the other for either 1) Money or 2) publicity. In that order.
They havent heard from their constituients because the staff in their office hasnt seen enough sway one way or the other, OR they have been bought under the table and want to appear impartial.
If a pro vaping media attitude existed (created by PR) then you would see results. I have said it all along, our organizations have no knowledge or experience in doing any of this correctly. They are VERY well intentioned but they are very misguided and cant see how they are missing their biggest and cheapest weapon in this fight. They need to stop "playing" as experts in PR and media, swallow pride and admit they are clueless, in wayyy over their heads, and actually HIRE real experts.
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Yep, if we were left to the Politicians we'll all be grabbing our ankles. IMO our only real hope is with the Courts. Facts are vaping is not tobacco and they have not found (legitimate science) anything harmful.Td maybe it's because deep down most peeps feel as I do that we need to extract vaping from tobacco legislation. That short of this all else is capitulation. Playin' their song. Just sayin'.
Good luck.
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FDR's legacy, alphabet soup (manna of the authoritarians).
Good luck all.
Good luck all.
I agree with buffaloguy. I was thinking the other day there is not enough PR in the media in a positive stance. It would be in our interest for some of these advocacy groups to approach even local media and have a sitdown with them possibly on camera.
While I want to agree with you...
Isn't it public relations and media that is millions?
And lawsuits, maybe hundreds of thousands?
My opinion is that PR, trying to change the public perception or a politician's stance are total wastes of time. The public are ignorant, prejudiced and selfish. The politicians are too with extra added motivation of job security. I think the only way to overcome what amounts to a social injustice is through the courts, we have seen it for some decades now as social change is rammed down the public's throats via court decisions. And I mean rammed down their throats in the best possible way.
I guess i shouldnt be surprised by the level of cynicism out there, but I think folks are forgetting the "math". The folks I met with are mostly on our side and willing to work to change the regulation by changing the law that allows it, but nothing gets through the Senate without 60 votes, and we're probably at 45. I ran a US Senate office, and know how it works, trust me. my Senator and most of them dont read each letter/email, but they do get daily counts on letters, phone calls and email by topic and pro/con. All they were telling me is that we are not moving the needle to raise this issue above Zika, opioid abuse, taxes, energy, trade, etc.
Don't shoot the messenger, but a full PR campaign will cost about $5 million, lawsuits $2-10 million depending on duration. Grassroots lobbying as described in the first amendment to the US Constitution - $0! Talking to your local media would help as each Senator reads clips from papers and TV in their state every am, and is also free.
It is very easy to be cynical, call them all crooks, and feel better, but ultimately we are the government, and the effort we put in determines the government we get.
You're saying we shouldn't be cynical, but just accept the fact that they don't actually care what the legislation/regulation is or what's it's doing, all they care about is how many calls/letters they're getting about it?
Ha, yeah, I' actually didn't say in any way that they don't care about the merits, but to get on the agenda for the 4 weeks they will be in session prior to the election we need to create an outcry. that is not happening and all im doing is getting off the couch to try to encourage that. i have written, called emailed and met with my reps. if just 5% of vapers did so, we'd win.
wrt the "mail" I guess I'm saying they only care what you (voters) care about. I'm sure you can find fault with that too, but I don't find cynicism very productive when a revolution is called for.
wrt the "mail" I guess I'm saying they only care what you (voters) care about. I'm sure you can find fault with that too, but I don't find cynicism very productive when a revolution is called for.
I can be cynical AND active
I've called and emailed my rep/senators, through CTA's and independently, and try to spread awareness beyond ECF and CASAA because you're right, we need numbers.I'm not quite sure how I could reach more people. I would love to see links to CASAA or NBS or anything else on these sites that are temporarily down, or now requiring age verification, etc. or does that violate the regs in some way, I can't keep track.
ETA: I will admit though that I do most of what I do from my couch. It's amazing what you can do with an internet connection these days.
Yeah... But here's the deal Truthdog.
You probably have your 5% (or more) of the less than 20,000 active members hear on the ECF.
If you want 5% of ALL Vapers, a better approach than Shaming Individuals on the ECF for not doing enough would be to ask Retailers why they are Not Doing More? Or in Most Cases, Anything.
I write Letters. I send e-Mails. And I have contacted Every Person I know to do the Same. But I Can't reach in my Lifetime what an average Retailer sees in 1 Day.
If you want Numbers. Find a Way to get Retailers Onboard.
I expect we'll have a groundswell of angry vapers -- but not until their usual sources of supply close or otherwise become inaccessible.
I saw one site down temporarily "due to the regs," even had a nifty countdown clock for when the site is expected to be back up. Guess what I didn't see.
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