FDA Sen Johnson (R-Wis) demands answers from FDA RE deeming

[seminolewind]

Every word counts. Sometimes we don't know people are listening or lurking. It's been really slow turning the public around. But it is happening. Even our strongest adversaries are starting to say "hey, this ecig stuff is not so bad " .

Draining the swamp?
I love it when more people recognize what's really going on, and hopefully they'll see the large amount of wastage that comes from the FDA and their ignorant regulations.

The FDA is supposed to be protecting Americans from harm. So this is why cigarettes are still sold with their approval. And they are wasting everyone's time writing regulations about a group of items they have now named "tobacco" when there is none, have not done any valid research to make such regulations, and regulate glycerin or pg, and food flavoring and possibly nicotine (which sounds like fruit punch with a kick) . So we have burning tobacco and cigarettes vs nicotine glorified fruit juice that's steamed, and the public questions which one is safer? Are there that many ...... out there?

I hope they do raise the taxes on Tobacco again. It'll make more people look for an alternative that's relatively cheap.

I still feel blessed everyday that I'm not a smoker thanks to vaping. I'm sure there are many millions more people out there who will feel the same way when they find vaping.

 

[Stubby]

I hope they do raise the taxes on Tobacco again. It'll make more people look for an alternative that's relatively cheap.

There is very little difference between what you are saying and the people you claim to be fighting. Just another anti-tobacco fanatic, which unfortunately is pretty common in the vaping world.

I hope you do know that tobacco is not the problem, though inhaling smoke can be a problem. Smokeless tobacco has the same low risk as we hope vaping has.
Tobacco Truth: Memo to Feds: Tobacco ≠ Smoking

Besides that, it is not about forcing your choice on others through higher taxes, restrictions etc. That is the road the antis have taken. I would hope people involved with vaping would be a little more enlightened. From your statements it appears for some in the vaping world this is just a new face on the same old antis.

 

[seminolewind]

"I hope they do raise the taxes on Tobacco again. It'll make more people look for an alternative that's relatively cheap." (quote)

That statement is purely the reason I started vaping. I'm not an anti tobacco fanatic. I am a anti government anti BT fanatic. I would like to see them both rot because I know first hand about the manipulation that the FDA and BT do to keep smokers smoking. That's what I'm here about.

Forcing my choice? No. Are you saying you put me in a category of non-enlightened ? I have never been or ever said one thing bad about someone who remains a smoker. And this is a forum. Make statements about subjects, not personal stabs. You have no right.

I would appreciate you editing your post and taking anything you direct at me personally out of it.

 

[Stubby]

"I hope they do raise the taxes on Tobacco again. It'll make more people look for an alternative that's relatively cheap." (quote)

That statement is purely the reason I started vaping. I'm not an anti tobacco fanatic. I am a anti government anti BT fanatic. I would like to see them both rot because I know first hand about the manipulation that the FDA and BT do to keep smokers smoking. That's what I'm here about.

Forcing my choice? No. Are you saying you put me in a category of non-enlightened ? I have never been or ever said one thing bad about someone who remains a smoker. And this is a forum. Make statements about subjects, not personal stabs. You have no right.

I would appreciate you editing your post and taking anything you direct at me personally out of it.

Let's do a short check list of what you are advocating for, compared to what the tobacco control industry is advocating for.

A visceral hatred of tobacco companies to the point of wanting to see them destroyed - put a check on that for both you and the tobacco control industry (I do understand that you are not alone in this).

Raise taxes on tobacco to manipulate people into doing what you think is best for them - put a check on that

Use the word tobacco when you are really talking about smoking (there is a difference, and everyone who really understands what tobacco harm reduction is, never makes that mistake) - check on that

Your ideas are looking a whole lot like those of the tobacco control industry. Just substitute the word vaping with NRT and it is hard to tell the difference.

Another interesting point is the animosity towards government, while at the same time wanting the government to raise taxes on tobacco.... because..... well I'm not sure, but I would guess it would be because it is okay to screw over people who smoke (while justifying it by claiming it is for there own good), but please please leave our vapes alone, or something like that.

The hypocrisy is staggering

 

[DPLongo22]

Also I have been asked in a lot of the other shops not to bring up the FDA or what has been going on.

Ignore it and it might just go away?

 

[englishmick]

Let's do a short check list of what you are advocating for, compared to what the tobacco control industry is advocating for.

A visceral hatred of tobacco companies to the point of wanting to see them destroyed - put a check on that for both you and the tobacco control industry (I do understand that you are not alone in this).

Raise taxes on tobacco to manipulate people into doing what you think is best for them - put a check on that

Use the word tobacco when you are really talking about smoking (there is a difference, and everyone who really understands what tobacco harm reduction is, never makes that mistake) - check on that

Your ideas are looking a whole lot like those of the tobacco control industry. Just substitute the word vaping with NRT and it is hard to tell the difference.

Another interesting point is the animosity towards government, while at the same time wanting the government to raise taxes on tobacco.... because..... well I'm not sure, but I would guess it would be because it is okay to screw over people who smoke (while justifying it by claiming it is for there own good), but please please leave our vapes alone, or something like that.

The hypocrisy is staggering

I was addicted to smoking for almost 50 years. It came close to killing me, I've recovered somewhat now but it might still finish me off. It will certainly shorten my life. It doesn't surprise me at all that ex-smokers feel a visceral hostility to smoking and the people who peddle it. Maybe I should try to rise above that emotional response and take a more logical look at the subject, but I'm not there today.

Last year I took a trip and stopped at a motel in, I think, West Virginia. One of the few States that still allow smoking sections in hotels. The night before I had been stuck in a non-smoking hotel and had to take a long walk outside to vape, so I decided to take a smoking room. I opened the door to the corridor of the smoking section and the stink hit me like a train. The room was even worse. What went through my mind that night was that for most of my life I had inflicted that obtrusive vileness on my fellow citizens without a second thought, in hotels, workplaces, trains, planes, and everywhere else. If people complained I wrote them off as whiners. Every hotel room on the planet must have smelled the way that room smelled.

The dangers of second hand smoke may well be junk science. And smokeless tobacco may well be harmless. But for that smell alone, I'm glad smoking has at least been pushed into the shadows. If the smell of cigarette smoke wasn't so overwhelmingly obtrusive and long lasting the level of hostility towards tobacco likely wouldn't be so high, and people might not be so willing to accept stuff like second hand smoke theory.

Before my company went smoke free they held all employee meetings over a period of several months. Almost everyone who stood up and spoke at those meetings focused on the smell. People talked about how they had to change their clothes when they got home, and the smell still got into their homes. They weren't making it up.

The fact that the antismoking movement ignorantly allowed themselves to be sucked into associating vaping with smoking, and the politicians and corporations cynically pushed that position, is a shame. But we should recognize where the reaction of the population in general comes from.

 

[Rossum]

It doesn't surprise me at all that ex-smokers feel a visceral hostility to smoking and the people who peddle it.

I'm an ex-smoker going on three years now, and I feel zero hostility towards smoking, smokers, or the purveyors of tobacco products.

Last year I took a trip and stopped at a motel in, I think, West Virginia. One of the few States that still allow smoking sections in hotels.

Actually, no. Very few states require hotels to be entirely smoke free. Most state smoking bans explicitly exempt designated smoking rooms in hotels. However, many hotel chains have elected to be smoke-free without a legal mandate.

Every hotel room on the planet must have smelled the way that room smelled.

Nah, that's mainly a problem when/where hotels are designed with windows that don't open and HVAC systems that only recirculate air. I didn't care for such rooms even when I was a smoker. Now, as a non-smoker, I have no objection to staying in a smoking room in a hotel where the windows actually open and the staff is trained to ventilate the room on a daily basis. Unfortunately, such hotels are few and far between in the US.

 

[DC2]

Also I have been asked in a lot of the other shops not to bring up the FDA or what has been going on.

Ignore it and it might just go away?

In my experience, many vendors are afraid of scaring off potential vapers.

 

[oplholik]

Is it still possible to find a hotel/motel with smoking rooms? I was on the lookout for one for a trip to Albq., couldn't come up with anything.

 

[skoony]

I would like to see them both rot because I know first hand about the manipulation that the FDA and BT do to keep smokers smoking.

I agree that the FDA and BT collaborated in many things. Keeping smokers smoking wasn't ever one of those things. Smoking is addictive. There is no doubt.( I said smoking was addictive not necessarily the nicotine)
There was never any reason then,now or in the future to manipulate anything in the tobacco
to make smoking it more addictive. what the FDA and BT collaborated on is how best split
up the pie of money from a what was once at one time a guaranteed supply of new smoker.
A funny thing happened on the way to the arena though. People mostly on there own quit
smoking. Higher taxes followed rate declines. Rate declines didn't follow higher taxes.

I opened the door to the corridor of the smoking section and the stink hit me like a train. The room was even worse.

@Rossum Nailed it. Heating/AC wall units and there filters are rarely cleaned.Even more rarely vented outside. Modern insulation techniques hermetically sealing buildings to contain heating and cooling
costs is why the rooms stink.
Regards
mike

 

[snork]

The night before I had been stuck in a non-smoking hotel and had to take a long walk outside to vape, so I decided to take a smoking room.

I gather then that you must vape a particularly smelly juice? I hope to god you didn't not vape in your non-smoking room just because there was a rule.

 

[DC2]

I hope to god you didn't not vape in your non-smoking room just because there was a rule.

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[seminolewind]

Let's do a short check list of what you are advocating for, compared to what the tobacco control industry is advocating for
.....
Yes but this is your opinion and it seems to have a narrow minded interpretation.
Yes I see that the word "tobacco" is commonly used here for smoking cigarettes by me and others.
.....
A visceral hatred of tobacco companies to the point of wanting to see them destroyed - put a check on that for both you and the tobacco control industry (I do understand that you are not alone in this)
.....
.....You bet, for their manipulation of tobacco addicts to keep the cash flow going. I really hate seeing cigarette smokers manipulated by BT and the FDA for money. I would feel differently if there wasn't any underhanded manipulation on their part.

Raise taxes on tobacco to manipulate people into doing what you think is best for them - put a check on that..
......
Totally wrong interpretation of my intent.
It's not manipulating people. It's the reason I started vaping in the first place. So it is an opinion that I (and others) had that is a perfectly good reason to seek out vaping or any other tobacco use such as chewing tobacco or even cigars. Health is a really good reason, but not the only reason people have first to quit smoking.
.....
Use the word tobacco when you are really talking about smoking (there is a difference, and everyone who really understands what tobacco harm reduction is, never makes that mistake) - check on that
.....
Yes I use the word tobacco when I talk about cigarettes. I understand harm reduction, but it's not the only reason I see for not smoking . That would be narrow minded. Tobacco and smoking used interchangeably here is frequent. It does not label one as not understanding harm reduction or being mistaken. It may mean something else to anyone but you.

Your ideas are looking a whole lot like those of the tobacco control industry. Just substitute the word vaping with NRT and it is hard to tell the difference.
.....
What is a tobacco control industry?
I think sometimes others' statements appear to be splitting hairs and and misconstruing intent or making a big deal out of nothing. People can substitute the word vaping with the word NRT and don't worry about what it sounds like . Maybe it works in some ways. But I don't walking around thinking "OMG! People will think I'm part of a tobacco control industry. " That is not at the top of my list of importance.
.....

Another interesting point is the animosity towards government, while at the same time wanting the government to raise taxes on tobacco.... because..... well I'm not sure, but I would guess it would be because it is okay to screw over people who smoke (while justifying it by claiming it is for there own good), but please please leave our vapes alone, or something like that.
.....
This is where intent gets misconstrued. Misunderstanding my intent to mean justifiably screwing smokers. (ack!) Yes I hate the Government people and BT for their manipulation of smokers . My statement "raising taxes" was intended to mean that like me, hopefully some smokers will gasp at the price of cigarettes and want to try something more affordable whether it's vaping or not. "Health" is not the only reason for anyone to give up smoking for vaping. In fact health was not even on my mind when I quit smoking.

The hypocrisy is staggering

..........
If one can only interpret a comment one way (like being hypocritical) it is likely that the interpreter has not matured enough to see a broader picture.
..............

Like Englishmick says, Odor is a big reason for other's to dislike smokers.
........

Just FYI, my reasons for giving up cigarettes for vaping in order of importance at the time I quit
The price increase of cigarettes . I could use some vaping to make smoking cheaper.
It tasted better and satisfying. I quit at this point
No more BALL AND CHAIN-living my whole life based on where,when, and with who I could smoke
yellow teeth
The odor.
Health was a bonus.

It makes me angry-fire in my eyes-upset-sad to see how smokers are manipulated. It's very emotional to me that smokers are manipulated to remain smokers By BT and BG to continue being cash cows, at the expense of their lives by way of addiction, removal of smoking cessation devices that do work. I'm here because of the anger I feel from this and having felt it myself. I'm not here to worry about smoking and health being of most importance. My goal is to see those corrupt creeps suffer where it hurts-money.

AndKids seeing me smoke (hypocritical).

 

[seminolewind]

I agree that the FDA and BT collaborated in many things. Keeping smokers smoking wasn't ever one of those things. Smoking is addictive. There is no doubt.( I said smoking was addictive not necessarily the nicotine)
There was never any reason then,now or in the future to manipulate anything in the tobacco
to make smoking it more addictive. what the FDA and BT collaborated on is how best split
up the pie of money from a what was once at one time a guaranteed supply of new smoker.
A funny thing happened on the way to the arena though. People mostly on there own quit
smoking. Higher taxes followed rate declines. Rate declines didn't follow higher taxes.

@Rossum Nailed it. Heating/AC wall units and there filters are rarely cleaned.Even more rarely vented outside. Modern insulation techniques hermetically sealing buildings to contain heating and cooling
costs is why the rooms stink.
Regards
mike

(your quote) Higher taxes followed user rate declines. Rate declines didn't follow higher taxes. That's an interesting point and I will enjoy pondering it. : )

 

[seminolewind]

I was wondering the same thing.

I would. It says "no smoking." I'm not. I don't smoke.

 

[Robino1]

Let's keep it civil in here

Always remember: Attack the post, not the poster.

Thanks!!

 

[Caver]

Most motel/hotel rooms have smoke detectors your vape will set off. That's what bathing caps are for...

 

[MacTechVpr]

...No more BALL AND CHAIN-living my whole life based on where,when, and with who I could smoke

Think your fourth was my #1 with all of the above and a whole lot more. I reached my limit at the thought of seeing ultimately so many being politically manipulated. It started to challenge my very spiritual identity. You see, I didn't want to become them. Then it wasn't even about me anymore but helping to stop this process for others. We all need to be part of the solution, not the division. Because we none of us want to be where they are. Clueless.

Good luck. Vape on!

 

[seminolewind]

Think your fourth was my #1 with all of the above and a whole lot more. I reached my limit at the thought of seeing ultimately so many being politically manipulated. It started to challenge my very spiritual identity. You see, I didn't want to become them. Then it wasn't even about me anymore but helping to stop this process for others. We all need to be part of the solution, not the division. Because we none of us want to be where they are. Clueless.

Good luck. Vape on!

Two thumbs up for you!

So true. The .GOV manipulation of smokers gets to me emotionally. I get so upset with this that I take a few days away from this site. To see millions of people out there trusting every word that the .GOV spits out when it's not truthful- like vaping is inhaling toxins, or is a tobacco derivative, or targets kids to start smoking. Meanwhile using that non-truth to regulate an item that is such a simple thing, and has helped a lot of smokers where nothing else did. Cheap and simple is just not enough. And high taxing of stuff you can make at home-it ain't happening.

 

[Nermal]

Is it still possible to find a hotel/motel with smoking rooms? I was on the lookout for one for a trip to Albq., couldn't come up with anything.

There are at least some, including Motel 6 on Coors just south of I-40. They have good rooms, too. Still, not everyone wants to stay at Motel 6. I know that all Marriott properties are non smoking and have been for about a decade. Their choice: my choice to be elsewhere.