Having age restrictions makes society feel worse... due to the hypocrisy
Should Children be Allowed to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?
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Having age restrictions makes society feel worse... due to the hypocrisy
Wait....what?
I eagerly await your reply, cause I know this is going to be germane to the discussion.
Why do I feel like your responses are from someone who has been drinking too much Coke?
If age restrictions worked, there wouldn't be any problems with drinking / vaping, particularly by youth.
The only soda I drink is in Prague and it has Cap'n Morgan in it, or Havana Club...
I think there would be far more problems with no age restrictions. I imagine the vast majority of Americans also feel the same way. Odd, even vapers overwhelmingly feel there should be age restrictions for e-nic...
Pretty simple. If one is at a bar drinking anything, odds are it has alcohol in it...
I have the luxury of knowing age restrictions will never be overturned, that youth will continue seeking product on the black market and account for around 10% of all vapers (though stats will never be able to verify this, unless kid is foolish enough to tell the truth when committing a juvenile crime) and that the hypocrisy from adults will be palatable. Not to mention the blatant discrimination by the adult sheep.
Kind of win-win for me either way on this issue. It's fun to make these points about adults who are clearly not in it for the protection, and instead are in it for their own version of nanny politics.
Oh, okay. So all the youths engaging in underage drinking are only drinking in pubs. This is your point? This is your counter point to:
Your comparisons are brilliant. I suggest sending them to the FDA. I'm sure after reading them, they will cancel the deeming regs...
And this, I believe, is a big part of the problem. Many Americans do feel the same way. Many, though I don't think most, Americans feel that limiting exposure is somehow "protecting" and it extends beyond nicotine/tobacco and alcohol. "If we don't tell you about it, you won't do it."
That philosophy doesn't work, teens are curious, and smart. They will seek out behaviors that adults engage in and experiment to find out why it's "adult only." The problem is, when we pretend like these don't exist for those under 18/21, the teens don't learn how to do things appropriately.
There's no black market for age restricted products. Kids just steal them, get them from an older sibling or friend...
This is one of those hard to fully understand topics. In my family it was work like a man, get treated like one kind of thing. When I worked from sun up to sun down, running equipment that could easily kill you, and did kill one of my cousins, I was able to make my own choices. At 14 I would hop in my truck, drive the 20 miles to the nearest town and go buy a couple packs of cigs and a 6 pack of beer. But I had cousins that weren't trusted to drive, operate farm equipment, or even to wake up on time, and they didn't get to do the same things I did. I also had a few that were too lazy to work, so they were treated like kids until they were living on their own, paying their own bills. I don't think age has much to do with maturity and the ability to make decisions. But when making rules to govern a society, how would you look at every individual on a case by case basis and get a real idea of they are like? There are downright horrible parents that think their kids can do anything they want including rape and murder, so you can't just take their word for it. An unbiased look at someone's maturity isn't quick and easy enough for rule makers to give them a pass or fail stamp on their ID. Community's aren't as small and close as what I grew up with, so it is a lot harder to make a case by case decision.
The thing that has always disturbed me is that at 17 you can join the military and die or be crippled, but even if you are serving your country at that age, you can't buy a beer. If there is an age requirement to drink/smoke/vape/watch a movie, then it should not be higher than the minimum age to join the military. I beat the heck out of a cop that tried to arrest a disabled vet for MIP. At 19 he was missing his right arm and leg, and lost them in service of our country, but that scumbag cop was going to arrest him for having a beer? Not on my watch. I would have proudly done time for that. Fortunately, the jury agree'd with me and I was found innocent. That officer found himself and his family very unwelcome and ended up moving within 2 months of the trial ending.
The thing that has always disturbed me is that at 17 you can join the military and die or be crippled, but even if you are serving your country at that age, you can't buy a beer. If there is an age requirement to drink/smoke/vape/watch a movie, then it should not be higher than the minimum age to join the military. I beat the heck out of a cop that tried to arrest a disabled vet for MIP. At 19 he was missing his right arm and leg, and lost them in service of our country, but that scumbag cop was going to arrest him for having a beer? Not on my watch. I would have proudly done time for that. Fortunately, the jury agree'd with me and I was found innocent. That officer found himself and his family very unwelcome and ended up moving within 2 months of the trial ending.
Of course I sent this issue to the FDA in my comments. Why wouldn't I? I made it clear that they'd be partially responsible for making vaping cool by restricting it to certain segment of the population unless they have clear scientific evidence to support their position otherwise. I said I would eagerly await their evidence on how zero nic products, widely available in the market, would be of plausible and particular harm to minors.
I also reminded the FDA that most vapers are smokers who started using nicotine (heavily) between ages 12 and 17, and that this really ought to be a consideration going forward.
Like everyone, I'd be surprised if they took the sane approach and backed off of the minor issue, especially as this is around 50% what the current deeming is outright stating and around 100% what it is going for.
But to say FDA and adults bear no responsibility in youth usage precisely because of the approach taken by misguided adults might make for happy feel goodie society, but the record on youth usage being solely guided by peers will be what plausibly hooks another generation on the dysfunctional use of recreational nicotine. What adult is going to present the good and bad of nicotine use to a minor? IOW, what adult is going to aim for truth in dealing with youth, when the happy feel goodie version of "scare them straight" has been working so well up to now?
Which is how the black market looks / works.
It's not like the black market announces sales, and promotes its vendors.
Your version of black market, is black market.
Where do you think the black market is located? Who do you think are its vendors? You think there is no such thing as theft in the black market?
The black market is selling stolen, illegal or nontaxed goods for profit. A guy buying his little brother some e-liquid isn't the black market...
So right. I took more heat for telling my son The Truth than probably any other reason -- I informed him of the missing facts about sex/reproduction (how that seed gets in there!) when he was just 7, admittedly a pretty young age, though he was already aware of all the other facts about it... but given that he was running around with 10-11 yr olds, I wanted to get in there first with correct facts than let him be subject to the misguided understandings of kids who HADN'T been told The Truth by their own parents.
I told him the truth about drugs and alcohol, too... that people use those substances because the substances make them feel good, but that the cost of that "feeling good" could be quite high, and go on for many, many years, even after the substances were no longer being used -- considering the "broke" status that he grew up in, with 2 "recovering" parents, he could clearly see that that was true -- and has had zero interest in any chemical feel-good products.
Andria
Then what kind of market would that be? Clearly it would be an illegal sale (or distribution) of a non-taxed good.
You think most to all youth currently vaping got their stuff from older siblings? If yes, and those siblings are over 18, then there would be many adults who are very okay with youth usage.
I would say your version of how youth are getting all of their product is unrealistic. Either way you slice it, whoever is distributing to youth would be operating in the black market. But I am interested in how you spin it to make it seem like it is somehow a different market at work, that is somehow more legal and engaged in legal taxation of goods.
Oh,ok, there are guys in blacked out vans outside of schools selling vape gear to teens...
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