So I went to 3 doctors...annnnnd I think vg hates me.

[NetteG]

So happy you are feeling better BluJess. I am curious, have you been tested for allergies for palm and/or coconut oil? This is the base for many VGs. Not to mention, could it be as others have said, a particular flavoring. Have you attempted to just do tasteless VG or PG? No flavorings, only the nicotine? Just start from the basics and work up from there?

I am also curious, are you getting enough water? In other words staying hydrated? I too only vape PG free liquid and do find if I do not keep my hydration levels up, I tend to notice certain things like headaches the next morning. Super important to keep fluids in you.

So sorry you are going through this, I too am not a doc, but I can't help but wonder if it's not the VG itself but something in the VG. Keep us all posted.

P.S. To avoid missing my "Friend" when I quit analogs, I kept a pack somewhere around me at all times to let myself know I didn't have to have any sort of anxiety about quitting smoking. Not agreeing with the anxiety theory, however, it might be something to consider ... I still have an old pack (3+ years) with a lighter in my truck. Though I know I would never go back now, and those things would be horrible ... it's still nice to know in my subconscious that there is a crutch to look at if I ever need to. HA!

good luck to you my fellow vaper!

 

[AndriaD]

So happy you are feeling better BluJess. I am curious, have you been tested for allergies for palm and/or coconut oil? This is the base for many VGs. Not to mention, could it be as others have said, a particular flavoring. Have you attempted to just do tasteless VG or PG? No flavorings, only the nicotine? Just start from the basics and work up from there?

I am also curious, are you getting enough water? In other words staying hydrated? I too only vape PG free liquid and do find if I do not keep my hydration levels up, I tend to notice certain things like headaches the next morning. Super important to keep fluids in you.

So sorry you are going through this, I too am not a doc, but I can't help but wonder if it's not the VG itself but something in the VG. Keep us all posted.

P.S. To avoid missing my "Friend" when I quit analogs, I kept a pack somewhere around me at all times to let myself know I didn't have to have any sort of anxiety about quitting smoking. Not agreeing with the anxiety theory, however, it might be something to consider ... I still have an old pack (3+ years) with a lighter in my truck. Though I know I would never go back now, and those things would be horrible ... it's still nice to know in my subconscious that there is a crutch to look at if I ever need to. HA!

good luck to you my fellow vaper!

I still have my last open pk, with 12 in it, in a ziplock in the freezer... right behind my nicotine stash. I call it my "no need to panic, I CHOOSE to vape instead" stash. Just the fact of not having any cigarettes in the house might still be enough to give me a panic attack, even 15+ months smoke-free.

Andria

 

[dyllysoilly]

I still have my last open pk, with 12 in it, in a ziplock in the freezer... right behind my nicotine stash. I call it my "no need to panic, I CHOOSE to vape instead" stash. Just the fact of not having any cigarettes in the house might still be enough to give me a panic attack, even 15+ months smoke-free.

Andria

I actually found a full unopened pack two days after I quit and just stared at it and said, damn you cigarettes! I wanted to throw them away but then I thought about giving them to my roommate. I eventually just decided to keep them to test my will and I haven't touched them since. It's only been a week, but I plan on never touching them again. I quit cigarettes previously for about 8 months and then just broke down one day, but this time it's for good. I have way more faith in myself and feel way better about quitting this time!

Happy vaping and keep up the good work!

 

[AndriaD]

I actually found a full unopened pack two days after I quit and just stared at it and said, damn you cigarettes! I wanted to throw them away but then I thought about giving them to my roommate. I eventually just decided to keep them to test my will and I haven't touched them since. It's only been a week, but I plan on never touching them again. I quit cigarettes previously for about 8 months and then just broke down one day, but this time it's for good. I have way more faith in myself and feel way better about quitting this time!

Happy vaping and keep up the good work!

I'm just afraid to find out how my wayward brain would react if I got rid of them.

When I first quit, 2/28/14, I kept the last opened pack, laying right where it always did, on the bookshelf by the front door, for a couple months; somewhere around day 60, I gave them to cigarette-bum neighbor. Then after 3.5 months smoke-free, I had the appendectomy, 4 days of godawful sickness and no vaping, and a few days later, trying like mad to vape but finding that it tasted awful after 4 days without, I realized there were no cigarettes in the house... and I went freaking NUTS. So I won't be getting rid of them again. They'll stay in there till they're tobacco-sicles.

Andria

 

[ManiacMedic]

Gwapes is just upset that he had undiagnosed acid reflux that was aspirated over a period of years and caused Pulmonary Fibrosis, and attempted to blame it on vaping, which he didn't really do to any concerning quantity and never produced medical records for proof and was shut down by the forum.
Don't let him get to you.

I also have breathing problems that started while vaping. Vaping is not perfect but pay attention to your body and try to go unflavored. I can guarantee the flavoring a will be a problem before PG/VG In the grand scheme of things.

 

[cigarbabe]

Sorry you're having problems Jess and I suspect it is VG which as Andria said is like "glue". I have long warned about high VG jooz making me extremely congested so I avoid as much as possible and stick to 50/50 mixes or higher PG blends. I kept my opened pack of Kools for 6 months and then gave them to a homeless smoker. I never think about cigs anymore... It's been more 5 years since I wanted one thankfully!

 

[blujess]

So happy you are feeling better BluJess. I am curious, have you been tested for allergies for palm and/or coconut oil? This is the base for many VGs. Not to mention, could it be as others have said, a particular flavoring. Have you attempted to just do tasteless VG or PG? No flavorings, only the nicotine? Just start from the basics and work up from there?

I am also curious, are you getting enough water? In other words staying hydrated? I too only vape PG free liquid and do find if I do not keep my hydration levels up, I tend to notice certain things like headaches the next morning. Super important to keep fluids in you.

So sorry you are going through this, I too am not a doc, but I can't help but wonder if it's not the VG itself but something in the VG. Keep us all posted.

P.S. To avoid missing my "Friend" when I quit analogs, I kept a pack somewhere around me at all times to let myself know I didn't have to have any sort of anxiety about quitting smoking. Not agreeing with the anxiety theory, however, it might be something to consider ... I still have an old pack (3+ years) with a lighter in my truck. Though I know I would never go back now, and those things would be horrible ... it's still nice to know in my subconscious that there is a crutch to look at if I ever need to. HA!

good luck to you my fellow vaper!

Heya! Sorry I didn't see this wayyyy sooner! Thanks for the reply. I drink tons...I mean TONS of water. I'm definitely not allergic to coconut oil, I actually use it in my coffee every morning, it's an awesome sweetener actually, heh. Palm I don't think so, it's in a lot of cosmetics I use. Soy though, as some vg are made from, I'm not allergic to but due to having endometriosis which is a disease that can worsen with certain hormones (and soy being estrogenic to some extent) I try to avoid, but being a most of the time vegetarian I eat soy sometimes and that never gave me allergies. Then again, ingesting or putting on the skin vs inhaling it heated are entirely different things. So idk.

Here's an update, though.
My breathing has DEFINITELY improved a great deal since going lower with the VG. I am much more comfortable now in that regard and don't feel that constant shortness of breath so much. And no more "heavy chest" at all. I think what very, very little shortness of breath I have left occasionally IS due to anxiety though (as anxiety meds and relaxation techniques make it stop, whereas with higher VG that rarely worked...as I said before, I think I DID have a vg problem but having anxiety on top of that made the shortness of breath SEEM worse than it was, now eliminating one factor all I have left is some anxiety I am managing and that's going well)
HOWEVER,
with higher pg (70%) I am getting very slight headache, sore throat occasionally, and clearing my throat more. Also slight joint discomfort. These are quite mild though. Annoying, but mild. I'd rather that than the horrible and scary shortness of breath for sure!
So I'm wondering if 65/35 or 60/40 would still be okay breathing wise, but easier on my throat and things. Since 50/50 is where it began I can assume I should at least go above 50 pg. But maybe I can get away with below 70. Maybe.
Another thing is time.
I've actually read some accounts of similar sensitivities to either vg or pg happening within the first couple months of vaping, then months to years in, the "vaper", likely due to their lungs getting used to vaping after so long, can tolerate much more than they could in the beginning. Granted, this isn't always the case, I definitely read more of sensitivities worsening in time rather than improving, but I've still heard that sometimes they can improve, so I can at least dream, since I did love vg so much lol.

Any way that's where I'm at. At least it's a much better place than omg-I-can't-breath land, heh.

 

[cags]

[QUOTE="ManiacMedic, post: 16921034, member: 253451"............................. Vaping is not perfect but pay attention to your body and try to go unflavored. I can guarantee the flavoring a will be a problem before PG/VG In the grand scheme of things.[/QUOTE]

I vape unflavored only. you might really like it

[QUOTE="blujess, post: 16967597, member: 192661..........
HOWEVER,
with higher pg (70%) I am getting very slight headache, sore throat occasionally, and clearing my throat more. Also slight joint discomfort. These are quite mild though. Annoying, but mild. I'd rather that than the horrible and scary shortness of breath for sure!
So I'm wondering if 65/35 or 60/40 would still be okay breathing wise, but easier on my throat and things. Since 50/50 is where it began I can assume I should at least go above 50 pg. But maybe I can get away with below 70. Maybe.
Another thing is time.
........................

[/QUOTE]

I know some people use distilled water to water down their VG a little. you could search the forum for it. I wonder if that would help you............

 

[cags]

forum is acting up for me tonite. not sure why my quotes above didn't work correctly :/ and forum won't let me edit!

 

[AndriaD]

forum is acting up for me tonite. not sure why my quotes above didn't work correctly :/ and forum won't let me edit!

It looks like the [ that begins the quote is missing its ending ] .

Andria

 

[blujess]

@cags
I do know some vendors thin their vg. Virgin vapor does that, for example. I was vaping their 50/50 when my shortness of breath started. Perhaps they don't thin the VG in those blends much since, well, they wouldn't really have to since there's PG in there. But maybe they do. Idk. I could try their 100 vg to see if it being thinned helps. But im pretty scared to touch 100 vg again lol. But I'm not wanting to DIY either. You'd think having water would make it worse though, ya know, because it's water and you're inhaling it. Ah this is all so strange yet fascinating lol.
Also, I noticed the shortness happens slightly worse with some vendors then others.
I just want to have a ratio with no annoying side effects lol!!! Though these are still wayyyyy cooler than breathing problems. And at least they're mild. I do feel much better now even with the annoyances.
It's entirely possible after a few more weeks / months I'll handle vg better though, considering I still occasionally cough up tar from analogs (2+ months clean of those) my lungs are clearly still in a recovery phase so they might just be more fragile at this stage.
AND the allergist DID tell me the first few months off cigs, shortness of breath while in lung recovery stage is super common. She told me she hears of it every single day from new quitters within their first 6 months to year off cigs.

 

[AndriaD]

@cags
I do know some vendors thin their vg. Virgin vapor does that, for example. I was vaping their 50/50 when my shortness of breath started. Perhaps they don't thin the VG in those blends much since, well, they wouldn't really have to since there's PG in there. But maybe they do. Idk. I could try their 100 vg to see if it being thinned helps. But im pretty scared to touch 100 vg again lol. But I'm not wanting to DIY either. You'd think having water would make it worse though, ya know, because it's water and you're inhaling it. Ah this is all so strange yet fascinating lol.
Also, I noticed the shortness happens slightly worse with some vendors then others.
I just want to have a ratio with no annoying side effects lol!!! Though these are still wayyyyy cooler than breathing problems. And at least they're mild. I do feel much better now even with the annoyances.
It's entirely possible after a few more weeks / months I'll handle vg better though, considering I still occasionally cough up tar from analogs (2+ months clean of those) my lungs are clearly still in a recovery phase so they might just be more fragile at this stage.
AND the allergist DID tell me the first few months off cigs, shortness of breath while in lung recovery stage is super common. She told me she hears of it every single day from new quitters within their first 6 months to year off cigs.

It takes about 3 months from quitting for the lungs to be able to clean themselves normally, which I believe means the re-growth of the cilia. But I would say that the healing of the lungs goes on for quite some time after quitting, depending on how long one smoked -- a year or more. I smoked for nearly 4 decades, so I honestly can't expect my lungs to be really healthy before about 5 yrs, though the brief problem I had with my asthma getting worse after I started vaping seems to be slowly getting better. And my chest x-ray is clear, identical to an x-ray taken 18 yrs ago, but all that really says is that I don't have cancer or COPD.

If you can't handle VG, you may not ever be able to. Thinning glue just gives you thin glue, but it's still glue.

Andria

 

[blujess]

It takes about 3 months from quitting for the lungs to be able to clean themselves normally, which I believe means the re-growth of the cilia. But I would say that the healing of the lungs goes on for quite some time after quitting, depending on how long one smoked -- a year or more. I smoked for nearly 4 decades, so I honestly can't expect my lungs to be really healthy before about 5 yrs, though the brief problem I had with my asthma getting worse after I started vaping seems to be slowly getting better. And my chest x-ray is clear, identical to an x-ray taken 18 yrs ago, but all that really says is that I don't have cancer or COPD.

If you can't handle VG, you may not ever be able to. Thinning glue just gives you thin glue, but it's still glue.

Andria

lol true. There was a few people on other vaping sites that said that the first 3-6 months they had the same issues with vg as me but then after that period was over, they went back and tried it again and it was fine. so idk. I doubt I'll get that lucky but I'm just saying it's possible. I do like your glue analogy though haha I know you vape 85 pg....do you get sore throat or any mild issues, and if so, how to combat that? I get that done, my vape experience will be perfect!

 

[AndriaD]

lol true. There was a few people on other vaping sites that said that the first 3-6 months they had the same issues with vg as me but then after that period was over, they went back and tried it again and it was fine. so idk. I doubt I'll get that lucky but I'm just saying it's possible. I do like your glue analogy though haha I know you vape 85 pg....do you get sore throat or any mild issues, and if so, how to combat that? I get that done, my vape experience will be perfect!

When I once tried 90% PG, after about a week, my throat was very painful and bright cherry red -- I'd have thought I had strep, except no fever. It felt just as burned/irritated in the lining of my nose, and my sinuses. So when I finally realized it was the 90% PG causing it, I backed off to 80%, and after about another week, it got better. But 80% PG still gives me that uncomfortable mucus in my throat and around my vocal cords, so I have to clear my throat everytime I speak, so I eased it back up a little at a time, until I finally got rid of that -- which is at 85%.

Now and then, I start to feel just a little of that irritation inside my sinuses, or maybe get a nose-bleed, so the next time I mix, I'll go with 84.5%, sometimes even 84% PG, but after a week at 84%, I start noticing the throat-clearing problem again. It's really a PITA, a very delicate balance between pain/irritation and too much mucus to make breathing or speaking comfortable/possible, but I seem to be stuck with it -- because you're absolutely right, breathing is necessary, so whatever is necessary to make it possible... that's what I have to do.

I did try thinning the VG with water at one point when I was still trying to figure out the best ratio for me, but adding water just made the vape really sputtery, lots of popping and racket, and I found that just as unpleasant as too much mucus, so I stick with the very high PG -- but I do have to be careful with it, and aware of what's going on in my throat and upper airways. My lower airways would probably be fine with 100% PG, but the mucous membranes of the upper are a little too delicate for that.

Andria

ETA: In the winter, it's worse -- the drying of the air, and the airways, because of the furnace running -- I've been letting a big pot of water steam on the stove, but I'm going to get a cool-mist vaporizer, which should help -- I think the PG just dries out the airways which causes the irritation.

 

[Mad_Squirrell]

here is a few things I've learned from my observations. If I vape 90-100% VG liquids for more than a day or two exclusively then I get the same heaviness feeling as well. 70/30 or 80/20 is my preferred blend when dripping or in a sub-ohm tank and I don't seem to have as many issues but if I vape it all day by the end of the day I might have that heaviness feeling . I keep at least two mods with me always and my all day vape is a 50/50blend. PG has a harder throat hit and it tends to dry you out so do drink more water .My wife tried to quit smoking via vaping as well but gave it up because she discovered she has a PG allergy and cannot tolerate it at all inhaled, it causes her to have asthma attack symptoms including sneezing so when I am home I vape high VG primarily to be courteous to her (she still smokes). Some liquids that are fruit flavors the flavorings tend to be high in citric acid and cause some lung and throat irritation especially for me. Lemon ,lime and orange flavors tend to be the worst culprits .

 

[Gazoo2You]

Interesting.

Been vaping about 1.5 years although 100% off cigs and vaping full time for about 1 year.
Vape 50/50 - heavy vaper with many mods +

First, to preface the rest, I do have sleep apnea. I have Bi-Positional vertigo, caused only if I either sleep on my sides, or quickly swing my head to my right. It's been several years without incident as I know how to move but I must sleep on my back 100% of the time, the #1 worst way to sleep as we get older and often results in a sleep apnea diagnosis. Am a mouth breather and have to wear a full face mask, which I am fine with and sleep like a baby and have zero signs of it when i wear it, nightly. One downside as a mouth breather though is that your mouth can get extremely dry, and sticks together from the forced air blowing into it while sleeping. Occasionally I have awakened with my lips stuck together although breathing properly from my nose.

Developed a feeling once about 6 months ago when sleeping whilst wearing my mask. As if a mild lump in my throat. Felt the need to toss pillows and lay diagonally with head very slightly over my bad edge so my throat was fully straight. Then nothing for a few months but it came back again about 2 months ago although now, I just know to sleep without pillows and keep my airwaves open, although that sounds worse than it is. It's like a lump of phlegm as if that were it, there.

Had an episode a few weeks ago. Not sure if it was a dream or not but do know I woke up with my lips stuck together. Dreamed I was suffocating. Jolted me awake. Perhaps i became a bit stuffy, don't know, perhaps my lips got stuck and it took my body a second to breathe. Whatever the case have done what BlueJess has done.

Pulmonary tests today. No signs of Asthma. Lungs quite good, and So far no signs of COPD. No signs of thyroid imbalance. Still waiting on an ENT appointment to have a camera quickly inserted up the nose and down the throat in order to see what's there. Had that done routinely about 5-6 years ago and nothing at the time. Doubt its a tumour but that will be the last looked at and if it is, its one of the more effective tumours to treat but really don't get the feeling that is it.

There are 2 potential answers, so far.

1) GERD - Gastroesophageal reflux disease - digestive disorder that affects the lower esophageal sphincter (LES), the ring of muscle between the esophagus and stomach. I am yet to be checked fully/closely but know it's a possibility. Have been told that it's best to try raising ones bed up about 6 inches higher at the head so that when you sleep you are on an angle and the esophagus is not running upwards with anything. Some might want to try this trick and see if that works.

2) a potential intolerance to PG ( only just now considering this) I always get PG/VG mixed up. Is PG the one that carries flavour and VG, cloudz? If so, am a flavour junkie and can't imagine vaping cloudz only

So curious, what are the most common signs of this intolerance? I can breathe but am just aware of what feels to be a ball of phlegm at I think, the back of my throat?

 

[Gazoo2You]

Ii should add that I only use one vendor in Canada, and 2 different flavours with him, a Kaptn Krunch one and Vanilla/Custard. all 50/50....I do have a Snozzberry flavour, I think, 70/20 by a different vendor in a white berry like something or other vape. After reading some of the above posts, I shall try over the next few days to vape ONLY that to see if that percentage makes any difference....

Edit: Should add that i don't appear to suffer anxiety, etc BUT in retrospect, looking back to early teenage years when I began to smoke, I now believe many hard core smokers could have potential anxiety issues, undiagnosed. But even if so, I wouldn't describe myself as needing medication for such IF I do....think i work it out IF so with the vaping. In other words, like most smokers, IF i had a stressful situation, I smoked more, but thats about it that i am aware of.

Have wondered IF, PG or VG could possibly be freezing the throat somehow OR maybe just aggravating it, swelling, etc? Will have the ENT take a close look at that area when finally into him/her.

Notice it started shortly after I went both sub ohm and vaping higher wattages, 25watts rather than using a Nautilus Mini at 11watts but that could be coincidence but I might resort back to the Nautilus for 1 week only, to see if it makes a difference?

 

[AndriaD]

Interesting.

Been vaping about 1.5 years although 100% off cigs and vaping full time for about 1 year.
Vape 50/50 - heavy vaper with many mods +

First, to preface the rest, I do have sleep apnea. I have Bi-Positional vertigo, caused only if I either sleep on my sides, or quickly swing my head to my right. It's been several years without incident as I know how to move but I must sleep on my back 100% of the time

It's curious you mention that about positional vertigo, and having to sleep on one's back; I have very erratic positional vertigo, every once in a while; when I first got sober 23 yrs ago, I had quite a few years of having to sleep on my back, or else I felt quite nauseous, even though previously I'd been completely unable to fall asleep on my back at all -- I have asthma, so back-sleeping requires massive pillows to raise my upper body or I can't breathe at all. I also suffered extreme vertigo if I woke in a completely dark room; could not "locate" myself in space at all, felt like I was falling.

Thankfully all that weirdness eased a few years ago, and I'm now back to side-sleeping, unfortunately for my right shoulder as that's the side I prefer, and sleeping in a fully dark room as well. I suppose I could just chalk it up to healing, after my brain was no longer bathed in alcohol everytime I slept.

As for the mucus in your throat... 50/50 is still quite a lot of VG -- anything over 20% Vg and I can't breathe at all, and even 80-83% PG gives me a lot of throat mucus and throat-clearing before I can speak. You have it right; high VG is what makes "cloudz bro"; Pg is thinner and has more TH; dunno if it really carries flavor better, or if merely its thin viscosity allows easier mixing.

Andria

 

[Gazoo2You]

Bi-Positional vertigo, more common with aging past 35 + I am told develops in some due to either an earlier accident or a bang to the head, neither of which I ever recall happening. I have spoken to others and it seems for most to be at its worst in the beginning. I just woke up one day and for about 2 was nauseous even to simply bend over in the shower to reach the shampoo bottle and walked on an angle to the left for about 2 days....really weird...lol but it passed and I had one other brief session for one day but enough to be diagnosed medically with it.

I had an MRI. Turns out vertigo is often the one symptom that will diagnose patients with MS. Most MS sufferers have many different symptoms and a history of many doctors not able to diagnose their problems, sometimes thinking they are just crazy. In such cases, its when they finally have vertigo they are rushed in for an MRI which then determines that it is MS. Bi-Positional vertigo can usually be easily diagnosed by a good family doctor, but even then you are given an MRI to rule out MS although you likely know this. I first had this about 10 years ago and aside from two seconds of feeling as If I was falling off of my chair while at the computer, about 3 years ago, never another attack. I stopped driving though. On my own accord. I decided then I did not ever want to be behind a steering wheel if it happened out of the blue. Less worried about myself than killing others and I can see there would be no way of preventing a crash. You know how it is. Your whole world in a mere second can be all turned upside down without any warning at all.

Don't know of you have checked for Sleep Apnea? I laughed when they suggested it. I fell asleep as soon as i hit the pillow but it turned out I did have it. It was about half a year of wearing the mask nightly when I began to notice the odd time I fell asleep on the chesterfield watching TV, i felt like absolute S**t upon waking, I don't dare ever sleep without it anymore. In fact i have a second machine, by it and wont lie down and watch TV without it. Looking at me, you would never know. I am active, in shape, etc but it can happen to anyone. Aging Sucks, that's all there is to it

Well I will now look closely at this. Damn, I just ordered $150 worth of flavourings for y first DIY, was about to order VG/ and PG gallons and Nic tomorrow. I have to make a decision it seems. It might just be time for me to give up vaping all together. IF its doing this to me, that's my body's way of rejecting what i am doing. Will have to give this some serious thought over the next few days and/or put off the DIY plans. I am fortunate enough to be able to handle Champix and I used that with vaping when I first quit tobacco. No problems for me but it allowed me to escape all Nicotine withdrawal. Using 6mg Nic but I might pop some Champix for 2-3 weeks and see with a much reduction on my vaping and/or a move back only to a Nautilus like tight draw tank here or there whether this improves.

/Sighs, figures

thanks for the info-still reading through to see what happened in the end to BlueJess and her experience.

 

[Gazoo2You]

So let me get something straight. I have one flavour by another company that I believe is 70/30. Would that mean that was higher in VG and is likely NOT the right way I need to go? I need to go higher PG right? Its VG we react to, not PG?