I started at 24mg, I use 6mg when I drip, and I'm currently down to 12-18 mg. I still have some 24mg e-liquid left, but I usually dilute it into something when I DIY.
So You Quit the Stinkers - But are you still hooked on Nicotine?
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alien Traveler" data-source="post: 13895896" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">alien Traveler said:
Okay.
I just ran across how to use the ignore feature of this forum... very timely.
- Click the member's avatar
- Click "Add to Ignore List" in the left-side listing of functions
- Eat
Reminder to all... Don't feed 'em
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I started at 24mg 6 months ago, quickly went to 18mg. I went down to 12mg after getting great gear, and now I have some 6 and some 12. I still have a lot of 18 and am working on diluting those 50%. I DIY my own unflavored, so I can make it what I want. I have some straight vg to help with diluting some of my higher concentrations. I, personally like the throat hit and slight peppery taste of the nicotine base. I'm sure I have somewhat of an addiction still to nicotine, but nothing on par with smoking cigarettes. vaping may not be entirely healthy, certainly not as healthy as breathing straight air, but it is the best alternative for sure! Even if I do wean myself down to where I am not using nicotine at all, I may still continue to vape as there is still the psychological aspect of hand to mouth, inhaling and blowing out smoke, or in our case, vapor.
Well as for me I was smoking around 1 maybe 2 cigars a month and mostly smoking from my pipe, but I was only smoking those in total about two years. I would easily go a month or more without smoking at all, but I like to relax sometimes from a very stressful job. When I need to relax I would kick back with a smoke and a drink. I am not trying to quit since I never smoked much anyway, but still smoking is bad for you and so I wanted a better option for my health but without losing the feeling of the nicotine. I did a ton of research and settled on vaping.
I have read a ton of research over the years and none claim that the nicotine is bad for you, but all the research agrees that smoking is bad for you. The difference in vaping seems to be the fact that it is not smoke and it is pure nicotine excluding the flavors.
Being that nicotine is not the problem, but smoke is, it would seem concerning ones self with nicotine is really of no concern. To be honest anything you do n excess will always be bad for you. I have heard carrots are good for you and so are apples, but then they found even eating those in excess is bad for you. People drink caffein which in the long run is also bad for you. The air we breathe and water we drink is even bad for us now days, so I just feel like no matter what we will die from something in our environment that is bad for us anyway. Just my examination of things.
My other opinion is why vape 0 nicotine? What is the point in that? To me that is like non alcoholic beer or decaf coffee. I mean, the beer does not exactly taste good anyway so if it does not have alcohol why drink it? Coffee wakes me up makes me alert for my day, but it does not taste great. Why decaf? Just stop drinking it.
If the op can get to 0 nicotine my opinion is just stop vaping. why bother with it anymore?
I have read a ton of research over the years and none claim that the nicotine is bad for you, but all the research agrees that smoking is bad for you. The difference in vaping seems to be the fact that it is not smoke and it is pure nicotine excluding the flavors.
Being that nicotine is not the problem, but smoke is, it would seem concerning ones self with nicotine is really of no concern. To be honest anything you do n excess will always be bad for you. I have heard carrots are good for you and so are apples, but then they found even eating those in excess is bad for you. People drink caffein which in the long run is also bad for you. The air we breathe and water we drink is even bad for us now days, so I just feel like no matter what we will die from something in our environment that is bad for us anyway. Just my examination of things.
My other opinion is why vape 0 nicotine? What is the point in that? To me that is like non alcoholic beer or decaf coffee. I mean, the beer does not exactly taste good anyway so if it does not have alcohol why drink it? Coffee wakes me up makes me alert for my day, but it does not taste great. Why decaf? Just stop drinking it.
If the op can get to 0 nicotine my opinion is just stop vaping. why bother with it anymore?
Some people have been on NRT's for years.
And they are congratulated by their doctors and families because they have managed to quit smoking. That's what really matters.
If you cigarettes were that low in nicotine, I doubt you would be able to find Pharma NRT's with LESS nicotine in them.
Would that be a problem, if you were using the "respectful", "safe" and "effective" Pharma products, instead of "cheating" and "pretending to have quit smoking" with an E-Cig full of "hidden dangers" ?? (That's the way ANTZ's look at what we are doing).
If not, then why worry at all? Given a choice between smoking a tobacco cigarette with deadly smoke and LESS nicotine, or a smoke-LESS alternative, with maybe some MORE of the relatively harmless nicotine, what would you choose?
If you believe it is the absence of nicotine in your juice that is making you crave a cigarette, then why not simply increase the nicotine, in order to keep you away from the much more harmful tobacco smoke?
Besides, studies have found that nicotine delivery with our devices was not nearly as efficient as it is with a cigarette. Even when our liquids may read 2.4% nicotine, the truth is nicotine found in plasma is still lower what we would find while using a tobacco cigarette.
In fact, the following THEORY was once published as "scientific FACT":
"The E-Cig is a poor quit smoking method, because nicotine plasma levels are not high enough".
This is simply a THEORY, and can be proven WRONG by two simple facts:
1) It does not explain why Pharma NRT's have such a low level of sucess. Those products were designed to give users a decent amount of nicotine in their bloodstreams. So, the nic is there, but still many people fail to quit smoking with those.
2) It does not explain why the E-Cig has a much higher succes rate than Pharma NRT's. Apparently, little nicotine is there, but still smokers seem to fare much better with those.
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Some folks like the taste of a good beer, coffee, and have an affinity for the experience of a nice lung full of vapor. Who are we to say that isn't reason enough to remove the alcohol, cafine, or nicotine? There is of course the habit of drinking a beer or coffee, and vaping is fun in and of itself.
Maurice
I went from a pack of smokes a day to vaping. At first I was doing both, for about 2 weeks. It was just more convenient for me... mostly because I smoked with friends and my device looked out of place. That was then. Now I really don care. I have been dropping my nicotine intake just to see how it goes.
I enjoy some nicotine, especially when drinking.
Mostly for me the addiction is hand to mouth... I'm still on nic, but have scaled back and will probably continue that slow trend down to zero for my daily habit.
As others have said vaping is a rather poor nicotine delivery device. From what I've read it's due to the molecule size... They are larger molecules in the vapor, and so they are obsorbed differently into the body. Again, from what I've read, the nic from vapor is absorbed through the mucus membranes which is a less direct and less efficient path to the blood than through the lungs.
Mostly for me the addiction is hand to mouth... I'm still on nic, but have scaled back and will probably continue that slow trend down to zero for my daily habit.
As others have said vaping is a rather poor nicotine delivery device. From what I've read it's due to the molecule size... They are larger molecules in the vapor, and so they are obsorbed differently into the body. Again, from what I've read, the nic from vapor is absorbed through the mucus membranes which is a less direct and less efficient path to the blood than through the lungs.
Interesting and predictable that the OP is challenged to back-up his comments and he just disappears after starting this thread with all of 9 posts to his "credit". I'm always surprised that more ECF members can't "smell" these threads from the "get-go".
I've done lots of reading and digging into the nicotine aspect of vaping.
There is a whole universe of education to be had, and much of it somewhat surprising, and counter-intuitive.
Not surprisingly, there are people who hang out here in the ECF universe that are very very well versed in the studies and information relating to nicotine, so I'll share some of my links to their work and contributions:
- Rolygate: Probably the foremost expert on nicotine I know of here... E-Cigarette Politics
- DC2 - a collector & possibly bordering on hoarder of nicotine research and resources links.
Here are 2 threads that have postings from DC where he shares much of his nicotine related resources:- Responding to, but they are still *addicted*!!! | Anti-THR Lies and related topics
- Nicotine absorption from electronic cigarette use: comparison between first and new-generation devices : Scientific Reports : Nature Publishing Group
- FAQ: Nicotine (tobaccoharmreduction.org)
- Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurode... : Neurology Today
- Psych Central - New studies on Alzheimer's, autism, nicotine addiction and depression highlight annual meeting
- FDA lifts restrictions on OTC nicotine replacement therapies | R Street Institute | Free Markets. Real Solutions.
I was 43 years smoking 1-2 packs a day, and was one of the accidental quitters - was looking to satisfy curiosity and hopefully save some money along the way. Found I had quit smoking 10 days after buying my first modest starter kit.
My personal position is that I am comfortable with some level of nicotine intake, and will likely settle into the 12mg range, and see where I go from there.
Lots & lots to learn in our new adventures!
Excellent response, Scott.
Thanks...
And I totally agree that we're 50 posts into this, and the glaring presence of the he-who-lives-in-fungus-under-the-bridge troll is only now being recognized
The downside is the distraction of dealing with people who are intent on causing disruption.
The upside is that there is actually a lot of good information and great stories being shared here.
I haven't disappeared... I just don't LIVE on forums. I have a busy job and a family and other things to do. I'm so sick of people in forum communities who like to call people trolls just because they don't reply within 5 minutes or have an opinion that doesn't jive with their own.
I'm not all that interested in arguing with people over whether Nicotine is "healthy" or not. I've read a lot of the studies and yes, there are some interesting thoughts out there, particularly in relation to alzheimers and parkinsons. There's also a lot of science that backs up the fact that Nicotine is physically addictive (like heroine or alcohol). Whether you are okay being addicted to it yourself or not, that's up to you. Hell, I've been addicted to it via tobacco cigarettes for over 20 years... and myself have argued with people that it is NOT exactly the same as being addicted to heroine... with regards to how it effects our behavior and ability to function. I think you'd be hard pressed to find an example of someone whose emotional life spun out of control -- lost their job, their marriage, their house -- due only to cigarette smoking.
And as I said right at the beginning, I'm not adverse to the idea of adding a little nicotine to my ejuice... I just don't want to vape MORE than is in my tobacco cigarettes.
Quoting internet articles and trying to prove nicotine (or even PG) is "good"... the problem is that at this point, it's hard to find a truly neutral, objective source of the information. Even us here, we have a BAD HABIT of justifying and convincing ourselves that what we are doing is okay. Lets face it, we wouldn't have been addicted to and smoking tobacco for so long if that wasn't at least partially true. There's a lot of big business and big industry behind tobacco, and now e-cigarettes, and a whole lot of misinformation, or at the least, misleading information out there. Come on folks, learn your tobacco history. There was a whole lot of time when people didn't know the dangers of smoking, and to the contrary, were even promoting it was good for us.
I'm honestly not trying to be inflammatory or argumentative. The thing that bugs me is that I was reading the post about quitting smoking and if vaping helped... and a lot of people were saying how easy it was. But then I'm also reading how people are chain vaping and spending tons of money on vaporizer upgrades, and I don't know that it's the complete picture to just be like "yeah, I quit and it was SOOOOOO easy". I agree with all of you that it's the lesser of two evils (as far as we know right now)... but ended up addicted to more nicotine than before? I'm not sure that's a good goal.
Thanks to those of you that chimed in to share how you're cutting your nicotine down. I'm going to go in to my local vapors shop and see what strengths they offer. I may buy a couple of empty bottles so I can mix and experiment myself with trying to get the minimum amount of nicotine that I'll be comfortable with, to help me get off tobacco. With my tobacco cigarettes I'm getting between 2-4mg of nicotine in a whole day, so I don't want my ejuice to give me higher than that. Can anyone recommend how exactly to mix it down?
I'm not all that interested in arguing with people over whether Nicotine is "healthy" or not. I've read a lot of the studies and yes, there are some interesting thoughts out there, particularly in relation to alzheimers and parkinsons. There's also a lot of science that backs up the fact that Nicotine is physically addictive (like heroine or alcohol). Whether you are okay being addicted to it yourself or not, that's up to you. Hell, I've been addicted to it via tobacco cigarettes for over 20 years... and myself have argued with people that it is NOT exactly the same as being addicted to heroine... with regards to how it effects our behavior and ability to function. I think you'd be hard pressed to find an example of someone whose emotional life spun out of control -- lost their job, their marriage, their house -- due only to cigarette smoking.
And as I said right at the beginning, I'm not adverse to the idea of adding a little nicotine to my ejuice... I just don't want to vape MORE than is in my tobacco cigarettes.
Quoting internet articles and trying to prove nicotine (or even PG) is "good"... the problem is that at this point, it's hard to find a truly neutral, objective source of the information. Even us here, we have a BAD HABIT of justifying and convincing ourselves that what we are doing is okay. Lets face it, we wouldn't have been addicted to and smoking tobacco for so long if that wasn't at least partially true. There's a lot of big business and big industry behind tobacco, and now e-cigarettes, and a whole lot of misinformation, or at the least, misleading information out there. Come on folks, learn your tobacco history. There was a whole lot of time when people didn't know the dangers of smoking, and to the contrary, were even promoting it was good for us.
I'm honestly not trying to be inflammatory or argumentative. The thing that bugs me is that I was reading the post about quitting smoking and if vaping helped... and a lot of people were saying how easy it was. But then I'm also reading how people are chain vaping and spending tons of money on vaporizer upgrades, and I don't know that it's the complete picture to just be like "yeah, I quit and it was SOOOOOO easy". I agree with all of you that it's the lesser of two evils (as far as we know right now)... but ended up addicted to more nicotine than before? I'm not sure that's a good goal.
Thanks to those of you that chimed in to share how you're cutting your nicotine down. I'm going to go in to my local vapors shop and see what strengths they offer. I may buy a couple of empty bottles so I can mix and experiment myself with trying to get the minimum amount of nicotine that I'll be comfortable with, to help me get off tobacco. With my tobacco cigarettes I'm getting between 2-4mg of nicotine in a whole day, so I don't want my ejuice to give me higher than that. Can anyone recommend how exactly to mix it down?
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Cigarette addiction and nicotine addiction are 2 totally separate animals. If they were one in the same nrt's would be a modern health miracle but for lack of a better term they suck. We all know this. Most of us have tried them (I used lozenges off and on for years). All they did was make it bearable not to smoke but I was NEVER satisfied.
The power of cigarette addiction goes far beyond nicotine. They are very behavioral and I'm certain in my case they messed with my serotonin and moods. That was why the grip was so godawful strong and I'm sure that's the case for many others. Cigarettes controlled (to an extent) my mental well being day to day. I couldn't shake it even after a 5 year cold turkey stint before a relapse. I wanted to relapse.
I did the wellbutrin thing back in 2002. They really did make it easy to stop smoking for me. It was like I didn't care about them anymore. But the side effects sucked. My sleep was terrible and I got frequent headaches from them among other things. I couldn't wait until the 12 weeks was up. I managed to stay smoke/nic free for a couple years again but relapsed with ease. My relapses were mostly based on the constant grip and pull that I couldn't shake. I simply enjoyed myself, my mental state, and my life better when I smoked. Reflecting on the wellbutrin success is compelling personal evidence that mood, overall well being, and behavioral aspects were the primary driver of my addiction and nicotine was secondary.
There's a hollow feeling for most people transitioning from smoking to vaping. For those who had it you know what I'm talking about. Vaping is close enough to trick your mind but not perfect. There is a period where you have to adjust to the other effects of smoking other than nic. Mine lasted only 2-3 weeks and I've been in a sweet spot for over a year (I stopped smoking the day I started vaping). Some people struggle longer with it and some never experience it. Each person's brain is unique so there is no one sized fits all way to make the switch. Cigs are perfectly engineered to do much more than deliver nic. They do a fine job messing with the mind too.
As stated earlier, nicotine is far from the devils drug. There is scientific proof of limited harm and even benefits like increased cognitive abilities. It's starting to be used in treating disorders like alzheimer's. There are plenty of people who have been using nrt's for decades with no evidence that nicotine causes harm over the long term. Some gum users end up with bad teeth and jaw problems but that's another topic. IMO- the potential harm in vaping lies in the inhalation aspect regardless of nic vs no nic. We just don't know how long term exposure to inhaling the ingredients are. I almost exclusively DIY now so I'm in full control of what goes in my juice. Not saying I think store bought is harmful. I just like knowing exactly what I'm ingesting.
I started at 18 but quickly went to 12 because I was vaping too much and got headaches and problems sleeping. Devices make a HUGE difference in delivery. 6mg in a kayfun or dripper is = 10-12mg in a basic tank setup. Right now I'm down to 5-6 in my kayfuns and drippers and 9-10 in my on the go protanks. I dropped my nic because I can vape at work and home with ease so I prefer to vape more and get less nic doing it. Bodies do a good job telling you when you have too little, too much, or just enough. Adjusting your strength to your specific situation is important. Advice is tough because we all have different gear and situations. Listen to your body. If 24 is satisfying then stick with it. If you want to experiment with lower amounts do it with small increments. Jumping from 24 to 18 is a big difference. Buy a bottle of each and mix 50/50 to go 21 first. Mixing your own makes it super easy to control.
I kinda laugh at the whole "creating a new generation of addicted kids" angle. If it was just the nic, NRTs would be loaded up in backpacks and lockers at every middle school and highschool in the country. But they're not. Not even close. I have 4 kids. Whether they choose to vape or not is near the bottom of my list of things to worry about with my kids. Heck, I don't think it's even on my list.
I'm a firm believer that cigarettes affect your wiring in many ways other than nicotine addiction. I also believe that vaping is not a slippery slope for kids. Nothing like cigarettes. Time will tell but I'm pretty confident that will be the case as time goes on.
The power of cigarette addiction goes far beyond nicotine. They are very behavioral and I'm certain in my case they messed with my serotonin and moods. That was why the grip was so godawful strong and I'm sure that's the case for many others. Cigarettes controlled (to an extent) my mental well being day to day. I couldn't shake it even after a 5 year cold turkey stint before a relapse. I wanted to relapse.
I did the wellbutrin thing back in 2002. They really did make it easy to stop smoking for me. It was like I didn't care about them anymore. But the side effects sucked. My sleep was terrible and I got frequent headaches from them among other things. I couldn't wait until the 12 weeks was up. I managed to stay smoke/nic free for a couple years again but relapsed with ease. My relapses were mostly based on the constant grip and pull that I couldn't shake. I simply enjoyed myself, my mental state, and my life better when I smoked. Reflecting on the wellbutrin success is compelling personal evidence that mood, overall well being, and behavioral aspects were the primary driver of my addiction and nicotine was secondary.
There's a hollow feeling for most people transitioning from smoking to vaping. For those who had it you know what I'm talking about. Vaping is close enough to trick your mind but not perfect. There is a period where you have to adjust to the other effects of smoking other than nic. Mine lasted only 2-3 weeks and I've been in a sweet spot for over a year (I stopped smoking the day I started vaping). Some people struggle longer with it and some never experience it. Each person's brain is unique so there is no one sized fits all way to make the switch. Cigs are perfectly engineered to do much more than deliver nic. They do a fine job messing with the mind too.
As stated earlier, nicotine is far from the devils drug. There is scientific proof of limited harm and even benefits like increased cognitive abilities. It's starting to be used in treating disorders like alzheimer's. There are plenty of people who have been using nrt's for decades with no evidence that nicotine causes harm over the long term. Some gum users end up with bad teeth and jaw problems but that's another topic. IMO- the potential harm in vaping lies in the inhalation aspect regardless of nic vs no nic. We just don't know how long term exposure to inhaling the ingredients are. I almost exclusively DIY now so I'm in full control of what goes in my juice. Not saying I think store bought is harmful. I just like knowing exactly what I'm ingesting.
I started at 18 but quickly went to 12 because I was vaping too much and got headaches and problems sleeping. Devices make a HUGE difference in delivery. 6mg in a kayfun or dripper is = 10-12mg in a basic tank setup. Right now I'm down to 5-6 in my kayfuns and drippers and 9-10 in my on the go protanks. I dropped my nic because I can vape at work and home with ease so I prefer to vape more and get less nic doing it. Bodies do a good job telling you when you have too little, too much, or just enough. Adjusting your strength to your specific situation is important. Advice is tough because we all have different gear and situations. Listen to your body. If 24 is satisfying then stick with it. If you want to experiment with lower amounts do it with small increments. Jumping from 24 to 18 is a big difference. Buy a bottle of each and mix 50/50 to go 21 first. Mixing your own makes it super easy to control.
I kinda laugh at the whole "creating a new generation of addicted kids" angle. If it was just the nic, NRTs would be loaded up in backpacks and lockers at every middle school and highschool in the country. But they're not. Not even close. I have 4 kids. Whether they choose to vape or not is near the bottom of my list of things to worry about with my kids. Heck, I don't think it's even on my list.
I'm a firm believer that cigarettes affect your wiring in many ways other than nicotine addiction. I also believe that vaping is not a slippery slope for kids. Nothing like cigarettes. Time will tell but I'm pretty confident that will be the case as time goes on.
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Well that's easy enough. Just diy your liquids and get done with it. No need to get upset about it.
If you don't want it messy, buy 3 and 0 mg of the same flavor and mix to a percentage of your liking.
If you don't want it messy, buy 3 and 0 mg of the same flavor and mix to a percentage of your liking.
E-cigarettes are really poor at delivering nicotine to the body. I can vape 24mg still get a nicotine rush of a regular cigarette right after I've vaped, so I get a lot more nicotine from a cigarette than vaping. Cigarettes mess up the taste in your mouth and tastes terrible, so I've cut them out completely.
You can try out mixing out some 6mg/ml with some zero nicotine to get 3mg/ml. If that's not strong enough and you still crave cigarettes, try more mg/ml.
Yep... and when someone says vaping or some aspect of vaping is "impossible," well, considering the obstacles I've overcome in order to keep vaping... it just smells like a rationalization to me, a reason to keep puffing those butts. Like a morbidly obese person scarfing down an entire chocolate cake while explaining that it's "impossible" for them to lose weight.
Nothing about vaping is impossible if you really want it, if you *really want* to get free of those coffin nails. But if you don't really want it... nothing will work.
Andria
Cigarette addiction is a multi-part addiction. Something for your fingers/hand to hold/fiddle with...the aural/lip thing..inhalation and full-lung feeling..visual of the exhaled smoke. E-cigs (actually a PV) gives me all of those aspects of the cigarette addiction without the 1001 added chemicals (to improve your satisfying experience?) in the cigarette. Used to be when I was a coffin nail smoker, my first thought in the AM was to light up. Getting out of bed and dressing were just things getting in the way of my first fix. Now, that first vape of the day is getting further down the list..out of bed, dressed, visit the facilities, make coffee, play with the dogs. Now where did I leave my PV? No all-consuming urge! Nic level at 14mg, and I control the concentration I'm consuming, not some damn cigarette company.
With the community of e-cig user (the majority ex tobacco smokers) you are generally looking at individuals with patters of additive behaviour. So maybe that is why people blow all their money on supplies or chain vape. You can get transferred addiction when you stop one thing and replace it for another, so maybe thats it.
I also work part-time, study full-time at uni and have a family. I just have a week off and i'm new and enthusiastic and vaping and the forum. You shouldn't throw around comments about others 'living' on forums, pretty unnecessary.
I also work part-time, study full-time at uni and have a family. I just have a week off and i'm new and enthusiastic and vaping and the forum. You shouldn't throw around comments about others 'living' on forums, pretty unnecessary.
I began vaping over two years ago. Ordered my e-liquids online because there were no vape shops at that time. I was a pack a day smoker, and ignorantly ordered 24mg nic. I coughed a lot and got a sore throat. Found ECF and learned I should be using 12 mg nicotine based on my 20 cigs a day. Made the change and I was perfectly happy with 12 mg for nearly two years.
Began getting into rebuildable drippers and tanks within the last few months, and I have dropped my nic level down to 6mg and even 0mg. Occassionally I even vape straight Vg (unflavored zero-nic vegetable glycerin) which can be purchased at Walgreens or CVS Pharmacy. Its' got its own sweet flavor and is extremely inexpensive.
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^^or the middle of the night smoke, too. I'd grab those first as did Ed when awake in the night (hey a good night at our age is when you sleep through and don't have to get up to pee)
but I've stopped pumping carcinogens into my lungs, and weaned down my mg concentration of nicotine. Do I want to quit vaping right now? no, in the future? probably. my original goal was a year, but I really enjoy vaping, for now, I'm a woman and that's subject to change at any second. *lol*
it's an addiction but one that probably won't kill me now as surely the ciggies would've.
but I've stopped pumping carcinogens into my lungs, and weaned down my mg concentration of nicotine. Do I want to quit vaping right now? no, in the future? probably. my original goal was a year, but I really enjoy vaping, for now, I'm a woman and that's subject to change at any second. *lol*
it's an addiction but one that probably won't kill me now as surely the ciggies would've.
I don't mind nicotine, but I am down to 3mg, and then that's that. Depending on the future of vaping, I would like to keep a little nicotine around for occasional use. But my main, not so far off, target is VG/DW only.
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