Soaking and straining tobacco to remove nicotine, then smoking/eating that for WTA

[jamesam1243]

Timberwear

pardon me if i'm wrong but you seemed to have missed a main point!

Monoamine Oxidaze (sp?) is just a janitor that cleans up the brain so that the brain does not start sending spurious signals

i am just an experimenter myself and have switched to snus as my experiment ( 60 hours with only snus for nicotine, working great so far and no urge for cigarettes )

the Monoamine Oxidaze (sp?) Inhibitor only slows down the disintegration of your pleasure drug ( maybe ) dopamine, it does not create the pleasurable feeling, it is the nicotine itself that stimulates the pleasure, so you do need the nicotine to induce the pleasure.

again check with a better informed source than me but yet again it is nicotine that induces the pleasure, no nicotine == no pleasure

also Tasty Vapor dot US makes TV tobacco doubler 0 mg that will reduce the cigarette urge but is not a complete answer, i was putting 2 to 4 drops on my tongue to get the reduction of stress but you still have to have a source of nicotine, i was vaping 24 mg ejuice for that

4 Oz. Doublers » Tobacco $15.00

Tobacco This is our own tobacco maceration made from Virginia/Burley/Oriental tobacco. Steeped for a week, strained, clarified and finished with a few choice additives. This is a very aromatic, natural and flavorful liquid. When ordering please keep in mind, this is NOT a concentrated flavoring, therefore, at 48mg, the tobacco taste is rather diminished. This natural product tastes its best in 24mg and lower concentrations.

REF: http://www.tastyvapor.us/tobacco-p-96.html?cPath=11

James

August 04 smoked 00 cigs, 40 less than my usual 40 cigs a day 3238 cigarettes not smoked in 93 days by using Stonewall, Joye 510, Hello 016, Ken's BoxMod, MadVapes 2xAA Box Mod, WetBox Vaporizer (ecig) and 19 bottles of ejuice partially used , $0.28 per cig X 3238 Cigs = $906.64 diverted from cigarettes to Vaporizer (ecig). OMG I have spent over $2025.59 in 92 days on this stuff but bare in mind that my old cigarette cost was $330 a month, using snus right now ( General White Portion Mint )

 

[Stubby]

Anyways its 4 AM. I smoked about 5 or 6 of the cooked tobacco rollies. I didn't feel much nicotine from that really. And when I was done smoking those, I didn't feel any urge to smoke more. And I didn't get the withdrawal feeling of smoking the regular cig where you have to come back for more. So its good. I don't really have desire to smoke more. Tomorrow will be enlightening to see what happens.

I also rested a bit on this, and was reading more stuff, and realized I could probably just buy really good snus... then also soak that in water for 24 hours... that would give me low TSNA hopefully de-nicotinized tobacco...in pouches I can use... maybe without the nicotine I would find I could use one or two good ones a day... that would be VERY easy... and then I could finally say goodbye to smoking and also cut my risks a lot.

I read through this and have to say that it is very unlikely.... actually essentially impossible that you are somehow extracting the MOAI's from tobacco and leaving behind the nicotine. Nicotine, along with MOAI's are alkaloids. If you're going to get rid of one you're going to get rid of the other. There may be a way of isolating the other alkaloids without the nicotine but a crude method as in baking or soaking is not going to do it. Not even close. Any effect you are getting is a placebo effect.

I know star scientific (they make stonewall dissolvable tobacco) is working on a supplement that would do just what you're looking for but it is not on the market as of yet, and it could be some time before we see it, if ever.

If you're looking to get the other alkaloids in tobacco without the nicotine, at the current time I can think of no way to do it. Believe me when I say that there are a number of people on this forum, and especially in the smokeless section that have searched far a wide for what you are looking for with no success.

If you need the other alkaloids in tobacco the best way to get it is with reduced harm products like snus, nasal snuff, and dissolvables. Of course you will also be getting the nicotine. Where we stand today you can't have one without the other.

 

[kinabaloo]

While I can't be certain, there is reason to think that the beta carbolines (MAPOIs) would be generally less soluble in water than nicotine and its common salts. But it depends on how the MAOIs are stored in the tobacco, perhaps also mostly as salts in which case they could well be easily soluble too. In short, soaking for effective separation seems unlikely, though uncertain.

An extract of Syrian Rue or perhaps PassionFlower would be a better prospect to get MAOIs without nicotine. Caution is advised and ingestion certainly not a good idea (same with tobacco or tobacco extracts).

A UV light can cause some carbolines to fluoresce when in solution. That might be useful to deermine if there are are MAOIs present though I'm not certain how sensitive a test that would be, especially in a brown extract.

 

[Timberwear]

James - I saw their website. But I thought I read on here that the liquid they produce doesn't really contain the alklaoids? You said it made you more relaxed? Thats interesting... so does it contain MAOI's??

If it doesn't, then that is more reason to do what I'm doing. Soaking the tobacco to get rid of nicotine, and leaving the other stuff behind...which I'll smoke.

Either way, I did wonder the same about what your talking about. However, maybe the MAOI's do 2 things. In short term, they boost the "high" feeling from nicotine...

But in long term, over weeks and months, they boost all of your neurotransmitters? Maybe.. maybe its too weak of an effect. Maybe I'll have to start denicotinizing t. rustica leaves... since they have higher levels of the MAOI supposedly.

Stubby, you must have mis-read, or at least mis-posted yourself when you said this:

"I read through this and have to say that it is very unlikely.... actually essentially impossible that you are somehow extracting the MOAI's from tobacco and leaving behind the nicotine."

Because in actuality, I'm trying to extract the NICOTINE... and leave behind the other alkaloids. Not the other way around, like you wrote. I think you just made a mistake in saying that right?

Basically I'm hoping that nicotine is just very water soluble and the other stuff I want is NOT. So soaking tobacco in water will get rid of most of the nicotine leaving the other stuff behind. I won't be able to really experiment with it until tomorrow. But for now I do have the baked tobacco.

Kinabaloo - yes..again that is what I'm worried about. The good stuff will leach out in the water extract. I read last night how indians in the rainforest would soak the rustica tobacco in water then insulfate it. So to me I doubt they would do that unless they were getting the MAOI's in the leaf... so that would lead me to believe they do leach out in the water. Bummer.

As an update. This morning I smoked one of these cooked rollies. I could feel a tiny hit of nicotine...with the corresponding tiny move in my bowels... maybe 1/10 or 1/15 that of a normal rollie of un-cooked tobacco would do. But the main experiment will come with the water-extracted tobacco... as I think I might be able to preserve more of the other alkaloids better that way.

Also I noticed last night I didn't binge at all on a bunch of unhealthy food. Probably because I got something good out of those 5 cooked rollies I smoked. I think I didn't binge because I got some MAOI's maybe... and so wasn't looking for all those chemicals that come from cooked starches/sugars I have read about. Instead I ate a bunch of vegetables. I have noticed this with tobacco in the past... for some reason it can make me crave healthy food instead of looking to somehow self-medicate with junk food.

Either way, I'll just smoke this stuff that I'm making and this cooked tobacco for now. If I feel like I'm sliding into some sort of funk again.... then I'll know its not powerful enough to be used after water-extraction. But if not?, well then cool... at least I won't be ingesting anymore nicotine... and will be able to keep my mood at bay... and see where that takes me. To be cont...

 

[kinabaloo]

Also I noticed last night I didn't binge at all on a bunch of unhealthy food. Probably because I got something good out of those 5 cooked rollies I smoked. I think I didn't binge because I got some MAOI's maybe... and so wasn't looking for all those chemicals that come from cooked starches/sugars I have read about. Instead I ate a bunch of vegetables. I have noticed this with tobacco in the past... for some reason it can make me crave healthy food instead of looking to somehow self-medicate with junk food.

Forgive me for a quick reply and not reasearching this properly but I did post about this about a year ago and wondered if the 'addiction' of many to junk foods containing burnt carbs and burnt proteins might be due to a few 'goodies' in there, along wth a multitude of baddies. As with smoking, burning produces mant baddies (roasting, barbecuing etc; any 'browning').

 

[Timberwear]

kinabaloo - yes, I think I read your post. Or on the net somewhere else. Its probably VERY true... that has definitely been my experience.

Anyways I see that my thread has been moved to the nicotine forum, good

As an update. I just smoked 3 cooked tobacco rollies this morning. I do NOT feel the stimulation I did yesterday morning, when I smoked almost 10 camel crushes in a row. That morning I had a few big mugs of coffee, and all that nicotine. I had to take a bowel movement like 4 times in 3 hours. That is what nicotine does to me! Also I was completely stimulated and awake for 8 hours after, even after only 2 hours of sleep...and couldn't go back to sleep at ALL.

But right now I'm going to be returning to sleep. I don't seem to have the heart elevated stimulation i get from normal cigs, so I need to sleep off this nicotine withdrawal...as I've probably built up some the past few days experimenting with regular cigs again. But my goal is to quit the nicotine... hmm... we'll see how this goes. I feel pretty good I guess...but it could be placebo at this point. Peace

 

[Timberwear]

Today I basically smoked only the cooked tobacco, sans 1 camel crush... I don't know if it was psychological, but after smoking the Camel I felt weaker... I mean nicotine -is- a poison right.. I feel mentally/physically stronger in many ways without the nicotine, but I could just be making *hit up... just how I feel currently feel.

I don't know if its psychological, or too early in my nicotine withdrawal to really tell, but I seem to be satisfied with this cooked tobacco right now. It definitely provides the break to inhale smoke... thats nice in itself. There is a very tiny amt of nicotine, so thats nice I guess. But I think I'm getting other stuff too... In the end I may find out its just simply inhaling smoke.

My water extraction is almost done. In fact, I'm going to dry it out right now...hopefully later tonight I"ll be able to smoke some and see if its different from this cooked stuff. Problem is...the water extracted tobacco is Buglar tobacco..which is probably pretty weak tobacco... at least compared to American Spirit Tobacco.

I met up with a buddy today to hang out then go for a run. He's a heavy smoker. 3 packs a day, but he does loose leaf. He used to be up to, well he said anyways, 6 packs a day. I believe it... basically one after the other after the other..

We had to walk most of the run...cuz as he said, he was out of breath. He couldn't really do pushups or pullups. I think it was a lot of psychological stuff...

Anyways, I exerted myself out there in the nature area we were in... he didn't. When we finally got back... it was very relaxing and rewarding for me to lay down on the floor to rest. I noticed he didn't do that. Instead he took his place in his smoking chair and just started smoking. Turned up the music. One after the other... it was like this inability of him to relax, from a psychological and possibly nicotine-addicted standpoint.

I was the same way though when I was smoking. I felt weaker when I tried to run... psychologically and physically... and the second I got back I had to smoke.. to somehow, make up for the time I had lost? Or to go back to my stimulated state, when instead my body probably just wanted to relax to recharge.

With this cooked tobacco, at least now... I didn't feel the urge to smoke it when I got back from running. I just rested... so that was good to me. I really like the feeling of working out and resting after.

 

[tceight]

Timberwear,
Nicotine boils at 247C, and its salts start to decompose around 195 -230C

The MAOI Harmine doesn't boil until 421.4 C.

So the 'baking' sounds like a great way to get rid of the nicotine, and keep at least one of the MAOI's in the tobacco.

 

[kinabaloo]

Timberwear,
Nicotine boils at 247C, and its salts start to decompose around 195 -230C

The MAOI Harmine doesn't boil until 421.4 C.

So the 'baking' sounds like a great way to get rid of the nicotine, and keep at least one of the MAOI's in the tobacco.

Seems that as the salt decomposes the yielded nic is immediately vaporised. And the BT report I linked recently also suggested that free nic also vaporises from tobacco at around 130C rather than 247C. Seems the 247C figure applies only to pure nic liquid and that in leaf (moist) or liquid solvent, a lower temp is sufficient for vaporisation.

 

[Timberwear]

I posted in another thread that using a vapor brothers vaporizer, I could vape tobacco and get a nice nic high, but not the relaxation like smoking, so I kept smoking it.

Can u guys please convert those temps to F. For me. I baked the tobacco at 300-325 f. 10-15 min.

That's encouraging tho. I'm using an itouch rt now hard to type. Thank you for input. I started getting a craving for regular nicotine just a bit ago. But I'll just smoke this cooked stuff hopefully it will pass. I will learn more as this progresses.

One more thing. When baking the tobacco the kitchen fills up with nicotine and I swear you get high. It's quite overpowering!

 

[tescela]

I know star scientific (they make stonewall dissolvable tobacco) is working on a supplement that would do just what you're looking for but it is not on the market as of yet, and it could be some time before we see it, if ever.

If this is the product to which you were referring, then it appears that it was JUST LAUNCHED with Richmond as the initial test market.

"CigRx(TM) Dietary Supplement Launch In Richmond, Virginia Announced by Star Scientific, Inc.GLEN ALLEN, Va., Aug 05, 2010 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --
Star Scientific, Inc. (Nasdaq: CIGX) today announced that CigRx(TM), a dietary supplement developed by the company's Rock Creek Pharmaceuticals subsidiary, has been launched in the greater Richmond, Virginia area. CigRx(TM), a mint-flavored lozenge that dissolves in the mouth and is swallowed, contains neither nicotine nor tobacco and was developed for adult dependent smokers. CigRx(TM) temporarily reduces the urge to smoke using a unique combination of dietary ingredients: anatabine is an alkaloid found in plants that are members of the Solinaceae family including tobacco, eggplant, green tomatoes and potatoes. It appears to interact with some of the neurotransmitter cells in the brain in a way that mimics what occurs when a person smokes a cigarette. Anatabine has been combined with an extract of the leaves of the yerba mate tree to temporarily reduce the urge to light a cigarette in any environment where smoking is prohibited or unacceptable. Yerba mate is a small evergreen tree that is native to South America. Its leaves are used to brew a tea beverage that is consumed by millions of people on that continent, and it recently has become popular in the United States as well. Those who drink the beverage believe that it provides them a variety of benefits. This combination of dietary ingredients is intended to temporarily reduce the urge to smoke"


Star Scientific, Inc.STSI) - Investor Relations - Press Release

(I don't know why this link is showing up with a sad face, nor do I know how to fix it without potentially messing up the link.)

I know we have members in the Richmond area, so if anyone reading this is (or otherwise has access to this product), then please share your feedback.

BTW, it might be better to post this news in a more "mainstream" section of ECF, so if anyone has thoughts on where would be best, then please post it there and link to it from this thread so that we know where to follow along.

 

[Timberwear]

Wow great find on the cigrx!!

Well guys I think I did it. Yeah it's soon to say but

I dried the tobacco that was soaking for 24 hours. I smoked half of a Rollie with it.

The smoke was very smooth and I think because the nicotine has been taken out. After 4 or 5 puffs it felt like something brightened in my head. I don't even have the desire to smoke more of it (but I probably will later to test it out). I was starting to jones for a regular cig. Things were feeling off. For whatever reason. Now I have no desire for a cigarette.

I think it's possible the cooked tobacco messed up the Maoi's somehow as this stuff is different.

My head still feels brighter, and it doesn't feel like nicotine really. More testing needs to be done.

I think the cooked tobacco was just satisfying the ritual of smoking, and it lasted me pretty much all day but then I started craving unadulterated tobacco.

I personally wonder if this soaked tobacco has some oils in it that are providing some type of mood brightening effect, and not necessarily alkaloids but I don't really know. I hope this isn't placebo. Seems real.

 

[Timberwear]

Had to type this on new reply because of itouch. But cooking the tobacco could have vaped off the different oils with different psychoactive and medicinal benefits. From previous research on an illegal herbal plant, I know these oils, terpenoids, flavanoids etc can have effects of their own.

I don't know what is going on here.

Edit: an hour later I smoked 2 more hits and I feel the brightness again. I don't even have anymore desire rt now to smoke more of anything. Which feels odd. If its the oils that are doing it to me, then could these be vaped in an ecig and would it get into the lungs.

If I'm getting mood brightening alkaloids then cool. Also it feels like I'm very calm rt now in a beta blocker way. More testing since I have no idea if it's related.

 

[jamesam1243]

well here i go again, chasing a dream

Shipping Method: Ground (Residential)

Item Quantity Description Amount
---- -------- ----------- ------
CigRX10 3 CigRX Dietary Supplement, carton 79.95
contains 10 boxes.

Subtotal 79.95
Tax Rate 0.00%
Tax 0.00
Shipping/Handling 0.00
Total $79.95


Customer Service
Phone: 1-800-778-2031
Email: customerservice@cigrx.com

James

August 05 smoked 00 cigs, 40 less than my usual 40 cigs a day 3278 cigarettes not smoked in 94 days by using Stonewall, Joye 510, Hello 016, Ken's BoxMod, MadVapes 2xAA Box Mod, WetBox Vaporizer (ecig) and 19 bottles of ejuice partially used , $0.28 per cig X 3278 Cigs = $917.84 diverted from cigarettes to Vaporizer (ecig). OMG I have spent over $2025.59 in 92 days on this stuff but bare in mind that my old cigarette cost was $330 a month, using snus + PV right now ( General White Portion Mint )

 

[Timberwear]

Stealing the whole show James!

Definitely wondering your experience with cigrx. Seems expensive. I wonder if anyone else posted their experience on web I will look.

I'm really digging on my tobacco. It's great. Ttyl

 

[Lithium1330]

This may help you with your experiment (no tobacco needed):

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/6739-passion-flower-has-harmine.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rds-more-effective-e-liquid-2.html#post740020

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rds-more-effective-e-liquid-2.html#post781298

But let me tell you, recently nicotine has been researched as an antidepressant and it works very well, combine a little nicotine from an e-cig and MAOIs from passion flower and you'll see.

 

[jamesam1243]

Timberwear

CigRX is expensive especially for an unknown product and mine was on sale at half price. i got 3 cartons worth for $80

Buy three cartons (a value of $180) and get an instant $100 in savings with your order today!! That’s almost the cost of 2 cartons of CiGRX!
And it will also include FREE shipping to you!

they say that it should be here in 5 to 10 days, i'll hope for 5 days

but at it's suggested price of $60 per carton i may not be interested even if it does work which hasn't been demonstrated to me yet, but then i am a sucker for something new and on sale

i have a packs worth of loose cigarette tobacco from my extraction experiment that i would like to try to smoke also but i have no means to smoke it. but mine was extracted with water, PG, and VG and also heated so it may be quite different than yours.

once again good luck on your experiment

James

86 hours with mostly snus for nicotine + PV @ 24mg (Katya + TV think that i should mix things up a little), working great so far and no urge for cigarettes but General snus really doesn't taste that good

August 05 smoked 00 cigs, 40 less than my usual 40 cigs a day 3278 cigarettes not smoked in 94 days by using Stonewall, Joye 510, Hello 016, Ken's BoxMod, MadVapes 2xAA Box Mod, WetBox Vaporizer (ecig) and 19 bottles of ejuice partially used , $0.28 per cig X 3278 Cigs = $917.84 diverted from cigarettes to Vaporizer (ecig). OMG I have spent over $2025.59 in 92 days on this stuff but bare in mind that my old cigarette cost was $330 a month, using snus + PV right now ( General White Portion Mint )

now back to the movie "A_Dirty_Western_(1975)"

and BTW from next post up, i screwed around with passion flower and it is much better to drink it than to vape it

 

[tceight]

I think it's possible the cooked tobacco messed up the Maoi's somehow as this stuff is different.
.

Anabantine, the stuff in CigRX
has a boiling point of 145°C (293°F)
and nicotine has one of 247 °C (477 °F)
so, if you got rid of the nic, then that is one that would be gone as well.
It's also very soluble in water. 1g/ml.

 

[nicnac]

and BTW from next post up, i screwed around with passion flower and it is much better to drink it than to vape it

How was your experience with vaping it? the reason I'm asking is that I have tried vaping it (one drop/ML) and stopped for a while bacause it gave me this slight dizziness & headache (very slight).

What kind of dosage are you using drinking it?

 

[Timberwear]

Lithium, I have read that already, but thanks for input to my thread.

As an update:

Last night I had vivid dreams. Which is what happened when I really cut down my cig intake few weeks ago I remember...when I got down to half cig a day. So that tells me with the past few days using the cooked tobacco I wasn't getting much nicotine, and last night smoking the soaked tobacco wasn't either.

Thats my theory.

This morning I woked up and smoked a real cigarette, Camel Crush, just to see. It felt like I was becoming weaker and incapacitated from the nicotine. Like my body was being poisoned. Might be being overdramatic... but really... Kinda just makes me feel weaker in body and mind.

I think this is mistaken for relaxation in many. Yes, it does feel kinda like a relaxation effect, but more so because you are getting weakened by a poison... so your body doesn't have as many defenses up as it just got hit hard with something.

I got a bunch of stuff to do today, and will try to just smoke the soaked tobacco. This stuff isn't so much "relaxing" I don't think, as it is "awakening" and "brightening"... but that was just my experience with it last night. I will keep testing it out in different set and settings to confirm this effect. Also there might be an element of calming in there, but not the nicotine poison type relaxation calm at all, me thinks.

Also I just got my ecig, so I will test this out now. I wonder if the nicotine will feel like the regular cig did... it will be good to come to some conclusions for me.