Someone explain to me

[Drozd]

honestly I really don't think that the FDA is the problem...I think their strings are being pulled not only by the 3 letter suites...but by the CDC as well....it's the CDC that's really calling for and pushing for the eradication of tobacco use..
if you actually go to the FDA site their report and teleconference for the media...it's the CDC spokesperson that appears to be pushing the movement....and any of the tobacco control and anti smoking stuff when you did it's the CDC that's calling for the level of spending for the states for anti smoking measures..

 

[lonercom]

Don't get me wrong, I know that companies frequently have their rights to commercial speech abridged by the FDA and other agencies to the point where they can't even say things that are true. However, "E-cigarettes have not been proven to be safer than cigarettes" is patently FALSE. There is plenty of proof that tar and carbon monoxide are responsible for the overwhelming majority of health issues attributed to smoking, so even if there is some unforeseen long term effects of e-cig use making them not completely SAFE, there is no shortage of "proof" that electronic cigarettes are safer than smoking.

On the other hand, I am not aware of any evidence showing that Chantix is safer than cigarettes.

I don't disagree with you Thulium and I'm not offering this as exact verbiage either. Just a thought. It could say "...proven to the FDA that..." or "The FDA has not yet verified that Electronic Cigarettes..."

I'm saying that we just need to find a way to keep our lifelines and keep the FDA happy at the same time.

 

[Webby]

I'm saying that we just need to find a way to keep our lifelines and keep the FDA happy at the same time.

If only that were so easy a salvagable effort. I'm afraid the good ship "Getalong" sailed back when SE and njoy got into their spitting contest with the FDA, the manufacturers wouldn't divulge their seven herbs and spices and several resellers touted "happy-happy joy-joy" health claims.

Accusations, page one - retraction, page 27-D. That's the battle we're fighting now. Our best weapon is education and word of mouth.

 

[Thulium]

Perhaps the label should say:

According to the United States Food & Drug Administration, the complete absence of carbon monoxide, tars and toxic or carcinogenic levels of any other ingredient is not a safe alternative to smoking cigarettes.​

 

[HKholer]

Perhaps the label should say:

According to the United States Food & Drug Administration, the complete absence of carbon monoxide, tars and toxic or carcinogenic levels of any other ingredient is not a safe alternative to smoking cigarettes.​

I REALLY like that!

 

[kristin]

Or how about:

"Well-documented and peer-reviewed studies show that tobacco smoke contains toxic levels of chemicals and carcinogens and that nicotine use, absent the smoke, does not cause cancer and rarely has serious side effects. Removing the smoke from the nicotine would eliminate up to 99% of the health hazards to humans. The FDA approves the use of certain nicotine products that don't produce smoke. Electronic cigarettes contain nicotine but do not produce smoke."

 

[lonercom]

Whatever can be agreed on as an industry. I don't think that the "Good Ship Getalong" has sailed. Maybe for those 2 companies. The meeting in England gives me great hope as they work to find a mutually agreeable solution. It's a step in the right direction and can influence things in the US.

One thing that I think continues to be detrimental to our effort are all of the ridiculous press releases that some manufacturers and distributors put out every day touting health benefits, etc.

I think that we need a cohesive group that represents the manufacturers and distributors as an industry. If such a group exists, they are our best hope. But the industry needs to support it and agree to abide by it's negotiations. If such a group already exists, I may not be aware of it.

CASA is a great grass roots organization that represents us as vapers. Once again, thanks for everything you do.

 

[CJsKee]

loner--that was the purpose of ECA...to represent the industry. But with its high membership fees and the fact that it is controlled by NJoy, it's not IMO a good representative.

ETA: ECA has a forum here in the campaigning section.

 

[lonercom]

Visited a few of the member websites and did see some disclaimers similar to what I had been talking about.

I'm gonna get out of this discussion because I make a much better smartazz and enjoy it too much. In that spirit, here's my parting shot...

If the ECF doesnt represent the interests of the entire industry, then it's time to start one that will.

Peace

 

[bassnut]

lonercom.
Perhaps you would explain your precise situation and point of view to the rest of us. I know that you're replying to members who know you but this is a more general, open forum than ECA, and the rest of us (well...me at least) might like to know where you're coming from.
Are you the vendor who specializes in Kiosk sales?
Regardless, I'd like to hear you out.

 

[lonercom]

I'm a user only. Not a member of the ECA. Just want to keep vaping unimpeded by unnecessary regulation.

As such, I am just sharing my thoughts.

 

[Max0819]

But keep in mind that by "smoking cessation", the FDA means "nicotine cessation."

Re-reading this thread, and this quote in particular, makes me ponder.

Shouldn't all the nicotine devices, gum, inhalers, patches, be labled this way. I mean a strong legal argument seems very possible.

While 'smoking cessation' really is more suited to vaping, as nicotine is a removable component.

Just thinking on the run and outloud.

Max

 

[bassnut]

Whatever can be agreed on as an industry. I don't think that the "Good Ship Getalong" has sailed. Maybe for those 2 companies. The meeting in England gives me great hope as they work to find a mutually agreeable solution. It's a step in the right direction and can influence things in the US.

One thing that I think continues to be detrimental to our effort are all of the ridiculous press releases that some manufacturers and distributors put out every day touting health benefits, etc.

I think that we need a cohesive group that represents the manufacturers and distributors as an industry. If such a group exists, they are our best hope. But the industry needs to support it and agree to abide by it's negotiations. If such a group already exists, I may not be aware of it.

CASA is a great grass roots organization that represents us as vapers. Once again, thanks for everything you do.

I got this in an email from TW today. I imagine quite a few others have seen it as well:

08 June 2010, 16:34

UK E-Cig Companies Join Forces at MHRA Meeting

The Medical Health Regulatory Authority (MHRA) which is responsible for regulating all medical products in the UK, have held their first meeting to discuss document MLX364. This proposes implementing licensing restrictions on the sale of Electronic Nicotine Devices, which are commonly referred to as Electronic Cigarettes.

On the 4th of June 2010, the 10 employees of the MHRA met with 25 industry professionals, including Katherine Welch, a director of The Electronic Cigarette Company, a leading online retailer of Electronic Cigarettes in the UK. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss the options proposed by the MHRA with industry representatives.


The Industry informed the MHRA that;

• We are already regulated by Trading Standards/LACORS, and have conformed with all regulations. The Industry has self regulated with nicotine fluid testing to ensure quality and safety. The MHRA seemed unaware of this.
• The Electronic Cigarette did not fall within the remit of the MHRA, as Electronic cigarettes are not medical devices, and none of the traders present sold them as such.
• The industry representatives repeatedly stated that e-cigs do not fall under the remit of the MHRA, there are no known negatives to using electronic cigarettes, no record of harm from their use and no research to suggest they are harmful.
• The MHRA admitted their lack of knowledge regarding the e-cig industry, and appeared on face value to be open to information, knowledge and opinion given by the industry.
• Worryingly the MHRA did not have, nor appeared to know of required clinical information regarding levels of nicotine necessary for a product to be classed as NRT, thus leaving the industry none the wiser as to some of the statements in MLX 364 that claim justification for further regulation.
• Further meetings are to be held with the MHRA and health professionals to discuss further proposed regulation of the industry. It was expressed that these meetings should not be biased, and that people present should be aware that the electronic cigarette industry is already regulated by LACORS.

The most promising result of the day was that e-cigarette representatives agreed to form a UK trade body to continue to improve on self-regulation. It was agreed that they should work together to fund lobbying, legal advice, and self-imposed sane and sustainable controls such as a unified strategy for correct practice in packaging, marketing and materials testing.
This in itself is something of a victory since it has compelled the trade to work together in the face of an outside threat.

It was also pointed out to the MHRA that over regulation would force this industry underground, where little or no control of quality or safety would be possible, thereby endangering the public, and achieving the complete opposite of MHRA's remit which is to safeguard the publics health.

This sounds like good news on the face of it. If this were happening here, I'd be paranoid enough to think that this was just the enemy studying out defenses. Still, I agree with lonercom here. This group of "Industry Professionals" really seem the have their .... together.

Pitting yourself against well funded and organized anti-smoking fanatics is another matter.

 

[lonercom]

Interestingly, in the UK, ASH is not opposed to PVs

 

[Vocalek]

Re-reading this thread, and this quote in particular, makes me ponder.

Shouldn't all the nicotine devices, gum, inhalers, patches, be labled this way. I mean a strong legal argument seems very possible.

While 'smoking cessation' really is more suited to vaping, as nicotine is a removable component.

Just thinking on the run and outloud.

Max

Just to clarify what I meant by that quote...

The FDA believes that the only way to achieve lasting smoking cessation is to make people give up using nicotine. This is why the dose of nicotine in the FDA's so-called replacement products is well below a level that most smokers would find acceptable as a replacement for smoking and why the products are only approved for short-term use. The idea behind these products is to wean the user totally off nicotine.

The vast majority (by that I mean 90 to 93%) of smokers who do manage to stop using nicotine via the FDA-approved nicotine products eventually go back to using nicotine at the level that allowed them to maintain normal mood and cognitive functioning--i.e., they begin smoking again.

The FDA knew back in 1995 that higher doses work better. This study describes the success rate with a 44 mg. nicotine patch. "We conclude that 44 mg per 24-h nicotine patch therapy in heavy smokers is safe, tolerable, and without significant adverse events." So why is the highest FDA-approved dose less than half that--only 21 mg?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8748390

This study shows that nicotine maintenance therapy (continuing to use medicinal nicotine products beyond the recommended weaning date) results in significantly lower relapse rates. But "the benefits of sustained dosing may persist only as long as dosing continues." Translation, as long as you insist that at some point the former smokers must give up nicotine, the relapse rate will go up after that. And yet, the FDA refuses to approve longer perioods of using the medicinal nicotine products--and it certainly does not seem prone to approving indefinite use of the products.

Elsevier

As we have seen from the FDA's attitude toward electronic cigarettes, being able to stop smoking does not equate to "smoking cessation" in their book. You must achieve your smoking cessation via total nicotine abstinence.