Sony VTC5 20A 2600mAh Bench Test Results...a good 20A cell

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Jun 28, 2015.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Tested at 10A-25A constant current. Cells were graciously donated for testing by Liion Wholesale. Thank you!

    Cell code: K C5A1XXD05X

    Dropbox - sony vtc5 wrap.jpeg

    Dropbox - sony vtc5 top in wrap.jpeg

    Dropbox - sony vtc5 can.jpeg

    Dropbox - sony vtc5 top.jpeg

    Dropbox - sony vtc5 bottom.jpeg


    Disclaimer
    Testing cells at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved and how to minimize them. My safety precautions are the ones I have selected to take and you should not assume they will protect you if you attempt to do any testing. Do the research and create your own testing methods and safety precautions.


    Bottom Line
    A good 20A cell that delivers good capacity at an average temperature, but do not exceed 20A.
    The Samsung 25R delivers a bit more capacity to 3.2V though and runs slightly cooler.


    Test Results
    Dropbox - sony vtc5 20a 2600mah 18650 constant-current tests.bmp


    Comments
    • At 10A the VTC5 reached 2375mAh. This is good performance.
    • Maximum temperature reached 82°C at 20A. This is a bit hotter than the Samsung 25R but the same as the 30Q and HG2.
    • Five additional cycles at 20A showed essentially no loss in capacity or additional voltage sag.
    • A 10A discharge done after this actually showed an increase in voltage! Only averaging about 0.050V, but it's there. The cell was cycled three times at 5A before these tests started. This is the first cell I have seen that actually does need a few cycles at moderate current levels before reaching its full potential.
    • There was no increase in voltage for a quick retest at 15A. That second 15A test is not included on the graph.
    • Temperature rose to 96°C at 25A. That's way too hot for decent cycle life and significantly increases the chances of the cell venting. This is a 20A cell. Do not run it above 20A.
    • While operating any cell near its rated maximum current causes some damage to the cell, I would expect decent cycle life from the VTC5 at 20A.
    • See my blog for more information on the testing procedures, equipment used, and links to all my test results.
     
  2. alicewonderland

    alicewonderland Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 28, 2012
    soooo, this isnt an original VTC5? or did you test old VTC5's as well and had the same results?
     
  3. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    It's just the results for a 2015-manufactured VTC5. I don't have any of the older ones.
    I could test older ones but they will have lost some capacity and their internal resistance will have gone up over time, even if unused (but occasionally charged up a bit). Not sure if it would be a fair comparison between the two.
     
    State O' Flux and Rossum like this.
  4. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hunterwasser
    For for the price, one would be better off with a Samsung then?
     
    Froth likes this.
  5. Lemwise

    Lemwise Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 27, 2013
    Joure
    The Samsung 25R's are cheaper so yes, you're better off with Samsung.
     
    Mooch likes this.
  6. Froth

    Froth Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2014
    Chipotle.
    Without question.

    Edit: Thanks again Mooch for your truly excellent and informed battery testing, superb stuff. The increase in voltage you saw of 0.050V seems to give a bit of credit to the rumor going around that if you break the VTC5 in with proper cycling you can get marginally better performance, though I doubt it would noticeable in real world use.
     
    Mooch and jmercury1 like this.
  7. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    For those who are wondering why the VTC5 tested out to "only" 20A when it's rated by a lot of people to 30A...

    The VTC5 was never a 30A cell.

    The earlier Sony documentation might have had a 30A discharge graph in it but it was removed. The temperature the cell reached was just too high to be safe. The August 2013 tech info document only shows discharges up to 20A and their temperatures are close to mine. And any other tests you may have seen online either reached crazy high temperatures at 30A or the temperatures weren't even recorded. PBusardo couldn't even test the VTC5 at 30A because it dropped below the cutoff so quickly that it wasn't worth showing the graph. He ended up doing 20A tests.

    Always check the temperatures when looking at a cell test!
     
  8. Froth

    Froth Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2014
    Chipotle.
    There is also a popular screenshot of a PDF going around with a bunch of pulse discharge values on it, like this:
    [​IMG]
    What a lot of people don't realize is that those figures are for discharging multiple battery cell packs, and not an individual cell. Pairing information like that and the common misconception that the VTC5 is 30A and I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents with them.
     
    Mooch likes this.
  9. Silver5656

    Silver5656 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 22, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    man, too bad I bought 6 of the vct5's......d'oh
     
    sd3614 likes this.
  10. Train2

    Train2 ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 11, 2013
    CA, USA
    LOL I bought a couple too.
    But for me it's OK - I never even need 20 amps. And it's a nice green, I think.
    :rolleyes:

     
    Mooch likes this.
  11. MegaVap

    MegaVap Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 20, 2010
    Texas, US of A
    Wow! I was never aware that the VTC5 was not a true 30amp batt. Thanks for the info and clarification!
     
    KenD and Mooch like this.
  12. sd3614

    sd3614 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 7, 2015
    MIDWEST USA
    Well, paint me stupid. I have bought several of the newer VTC5, they are performing really well though. I ordered more once I verified they were "legit" and not a knock off.
     
    MikeyConti likes this.
  13. Rcajun

    Rcajun Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2015
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I'm happy with the ones I got, usually run between .4 and .5 around 30W. One of my flasks only takes Sony batteries so something that runs longer than the vtc4s was welcome. Get around a half day longer of vape on them.
     
  14. alicewonderland

    alicewonderland Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 28, 2012
    if the vtc5 was never a 30amp cell, does that mean the vtc4 is also rated at 20a continuous discharge as well?
     
  15. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    MikeyConti likes this.
  16. Mactavish

    Mactavish Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    New York
    I like them, a good 20 amp. battery, stocked up on the 2015 versions. Most sites still list them as 30 amps, and these are respected sites, that should know better. Some of these sites besides touting they are AUTHENTIC have pages and pictures showing how to look for clones/copies/re wrapped, yet I guess to compete for our money, they don't list the real world numbers, and some sites show amp figures for pulse, like the odd ball brands listed as 40 amps. Buyer BEWARE!
     
    Mooch and sd3614 like this.
  17. Mactavish

    Mactavish Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    New York
    Thought I'd add an opinion, perhaps the reputation of the Sony VTC5, is based on some long term real world LASTING time?
    I can't say as I don't sub-ohm vape, nor do I push their capabilities. Maybe their rep is based purely on the mis-belief they were 30 amps, or some of their popularity may be based on users getting good life, and recharge cycles. As you all know, it's tough to keep track of all your batteries and voltages, charge cycles etc. I know and respect there are some that can get real OCD, and keep spreadsheets on all their batteries, wish I had the time and was not so lazy. I do number them and write the date I bought them on.

    Since at the moment, I'm not running an 18650 mod, or flashlight, I've stored my 8 VTC5's, in the refrigerator in separate plastic storage boxes, inside a single Tupperware type box, inside a large ziplock bag. They are best stored at 40% OTC volts, and from everything I read, 59 degrees Fahrenheit is considered ideal, but the FRIG is the best place I have that is cool and dark and the temp is consistent. Better then fluctuating room temps. They do say NEVER put them the freezer. Much of this info can be found here:

    Battery Information Table of Contents, Basic to Advanced
     
  18. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Since it happens so often, I think since there was a 30A plot on the discharge and cycle life graphs that everyone felt it was a 30A cell. Almost no one cares about the temperature the cell reached at 30A or noticed that the cycle life testing had a low temperature limit that interrupted every 30A discharge early.

    But, I could be wrong. :) Vendors would certainly prefer that it was a 30A cell.
     
    Mactavish likes this.
  19. Monotremata

    Monotremata Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2014
    Covina, CA
    I might be mistaken since I have a crap memory nowadays but, in the brief time since I started vaping that the VTC5 was actually available (not the newer ones that just started showing up), it was never listed as a 30A battery like the VTC4 was. I do remember seeing the good old VTC4 listed as a 30 by vendors, but not the VTC5.
     
  20. sd3614

    sd3614 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 7, 2015
    MIDWEST USA
    So Samsung is really as good as it gets all things said and the cheapest. They perform closely at VCT 4 range right?
     
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