Steam engine,AWG,clouds i cant get what i want

[suprtrkr]

I didnt mention it,sorry but it is 28 awg. I have kanthal and i have nichcrome the question is the nichcrome kind because in steam engine the drop down say n20,n40 and so on but my precoiled wires from fast doesnt specify which one it is. Im thinking more about sub but i see in your post in need 32 so i will have to wait for that.

When you look at Steam Engine, pay attention to the "Heat Flux" box on the lower right. That's a fancy name for "how much power is radiating from each square millimeter of coil surface." In general, the smaller wire you use, with the coil ohms and mod watts held the same, the higher heat flux you will get. There's a sweet spot, and you'll have to find it empirically, but up until the point you start losing ground by reducing surface area with small wire, you can put more watts into the cotton-- coils make vapor at the surface where it contacts wet wick, the heat in the middle of the wire is useless-- using smaller wire, with all else being equal. If you really want to vape plus-ohm in the 1.4-1.8 range, smaller wire is the way to go. Up until about 1.5, try 32; higher than that, go to 34 or 36. Try rayon for wicks; I find it less susceptible to burning than cotton. And try some Stainless wire as well. I think it has less "metallic" taste than Kanthal or NiCr.

 

[suprtrkr]

Ok, I'm not pullin any punches or yankin' your chain…y'all need one of these…

IMG_1564a

• MacTechVpr
• Jun 25, 2015

…and all you need is a 2.78 (7/64") drill bit, a pin vise (to wind on) and a proper spool of wire (not one of those hand-winds on a bobbin). Take ya about 30 seconds. Typically about a minute or two pulsing to oxidize and about that much to set it in.

Tensioned Micro Coil, Subtank Mni Base

• MacTechVpr
• Nov 11, 2015
• mactechvpr microcoil tensioned

25x7 @2.7778 mm = 0.805Ω 22.9W (5.2A) 170 mW/mm²

Once you do you will get a scrumptious 17.5-25W readily and very time for months with very little moderate pulsing to keep accretion down. It will be your go to wind.

This technique achieves the maximum of density (vaporization rate) for any given wind as you just can't get these things any tighter or more symmetrical. That is the basis for a consistent powerful and flavorful vape on most single-coil ~.8Ω setups. Annnnd…it's going to be the coolest most dense vape you're likely to see at that temp target. Here's what she looks like on my first build on the very first Kanger Subtank original…



How does that sound? Details (keyword earliest Subtank ref) are on…

Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!
Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

I just can't repeat myself enough. Hail me, if need be.

Good luck.

Go Mac!

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Coil resistance doesn't matter much with regulated mods. What does matter is coil size, mass and surface area. If you compare one of the original Kanger 2.2 Ohm Protank/Evod coils to the Kanger 0.5 OCC, the difference in physical size is obvious.

I put one of my Protank II's with a 1.8 Ohm coil on a Pico, but accidentally left the setting on 25W. It popped the coil almost as soon as I mashed the fire button. If I were to put one of my Baby Beasts on that Pico with a Smok Q2 coil in it, I'd barely get a wisp of vapor, because 25W isn't enough power to heat the massive coil.

Size matters.

 

[MacTechVpr]

When I quit I knew I wasn't going to succeed unless I had a setup I could count on. That's my gospel. Trying to get peeps to that first reliable repeatable kit. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Good luck.

 

[Wheelin247]

Ive been digging in these threads but after days im back to ask you good folks. Ive been vaping a while now but still not where i want to be.
I started with kangertech protank with 1.8 coil at around 8 watts. Im stunned what i find at steam engine on watts and ohms! It says, IF im reading it right that 1.8 at 20 watts would be fine vape. Now i looked there because im now using a subtank mini and the RBA. Im trying to get a fuller feeling on the inhale,so i guess i need bigger cloud bro,lol. Ive bought 1.2,1.4 and 1.6 precoiled coils from fastech. I know i do not like to sub ohm,to airy for me. Can i really get 1.4 to 16 watts and not burn up right away,and 1.6 to 25?? I been a chicken about going above 13 so far! Oh also i notice Kanthal and nichchrome has a difference in watts too. I bought some nich coils from fastech but it doesnt say n20 or n60 ect like steam engine wants in the drop down. So lost there too.
Any advice to get a filling cloud with above ohms? Im i looking at steam engine,coil wrapping right?

I’m a sub-ohm vaper myself and I vape on a frame lipo mod I built. I have a 40mm Mason RDA so I’m able to put MASSIVE coils in it. I put dual coil build in at one time which came out to 1.1. With my 4s 2250mah lipo battery I am able to push 16.8V on that battery. With that build I was pushing 14V and doing the calculations I was vaping at 178W. That’s low for me but with a 1.1 build your limited with the wattage that you can go up to. I’m usually vaping between 300W-400W with a .3 dual coil build running at around 10V.

So as to your question, your 1.6 shouldn’t burn up at 25W if I’m able to run 1.1 at 175W. Give it a try and see if you like it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mcclintock]

The coil resistance, by itself, tells you nothing about the coil or the vape. With most setups you can make some assumptions and therefore the resistance tells you a little. But you really need to know something else about it, such as wire type/size and number of coils. Then resistance can be used to calculate how much wire was used, which is more interesting. Even with mech mods, the resistance only really tells you how much power will flow, not whether the coil is up to using that much power, but then once you add an assumption it works well, then indeed it has to be the lower resistance coils are bigger and can actually handle more power.

Myself, the highest power I ever used for more than a minute was at 2.4Ω and one of my lowest power Kanthal coils was .6 ohm. The 2.4 ohm was 30 or 32 gauge dual twisted to had four times as much wire in it than 2.4 ohms of a single wire the same gauge and ran at 7.2 volts or so. The .6 ohm was #26 wire wrapped around a 1/16" drill bit running 11 watts at about 2.6 volts.

The surface area of the coil is the most meaningful measure of its size. The total power divided by the total surface area is the heat flux, a measure of power density. Surface area is increased with a thicker wire, which has lower resistance. Surface area is also increased by a longer wire of the same thickness, which has higher resistance despite handling more power. Note that if you change the resistance by changing wire material but not the size of the coil it makes no difference to the power capacity of the coil.

Of course that's just the coil itself, for more power you also need more airflow, more wicking, more room for the coil and the heat.

I like a sort of modified, loose (lazy) draw MtL to restricted lung hit area. At about 15 watts this doesn't immediately cloud the room, but it is comfortable to go at it until seeming ridiculous to non-vapers. I'm running 8.5 wraps #28 SS on about 3/32" diameter. This comes out to about .72Ω but is almost identical to about 1.3Ω Kanthal. As to TC, it allows setting just a tad more power and protects from dry hits, but really isn't that much different. I consider correct power setting essential to TC. With higher power setting, I got a weak hit at 450 degrees, with correct setting I use 400 degrees and it hardly ever goes into protection.

 

[MacTechVpr]

The coil resistance, by itself, tells you [practically] nothing about the coil or the vape. With most setups you can make some assumptions and therefore the resistance tells you a little. But you really need to know something else about it, such as wire type/size and number of coils. Then resistance can be used to calculate how much wire was used, which is more interesting. Even with mech mods, the resistance only really tells you how much power will flow, not whether the coil is up to [effectively] using that much power, but then once you add an assumption it works well, then indeed it has to be the lower resistance coils are bigger and can actually handle more power.

Myself, the highest power I ever used for more than a minute was at 2.4Ω and one of my lowest power Kanthal coils was .6 ohm. The 2.4 ohm was 30 or 32 gauge dual twisted to had four times as much wire in it than 2.4 ohms of a single wire the same gauge and ran at 7.2 volts or so. The .6 ohm was #26 wire wrapped around a 1/16" drill bit running 11 watts at about 2.6 volts.

The surface area of the coil is the most meaningful measure of its size. The total power divided by the total surface area is the heat flux, a measure of power density. Surface area is increased with a thicker wire, which has lower resistance. Surface area is also increased by a longer wire of the same thickness, which has higher resistance despite handling more power. Note that if you change the resistance by changing wire material but not the size of the coil it makes no difference to the power capacity of the coil.

Of course that's just the coil itself, for more power you also need more airflow, more wicking, more room for the coil and the heat.

I like a sort of modified, loose (lazy) draw MtL to restricted lung hit area. At about 15 watts this doesn't immediately cloud the room, but it is comfortable to go at it until seeming ridiculous to non-vapers. I'm running 8.5 wraps #28 SS on about 3/32" diameter. This comes out to about .72Ω but is almost identical to about 1.3Ω Kanthal. As to TC, it allows setting just a tad more power and protects from dry hits, but really isn't that much different. I consider correct power setting essential to TC. With higher power setting, I got a weak hit at 450 degrees, with correct setting I use 400 degrees and it hardly ever goes into protection.

It seems your vaping style is somewhat similar to my own in that I generally vape a modified MTL that's really DL but concentrates vape at the palate while lazily exiting both mouth and sinus on exhale. Often some intake slipstream at the DT to get the right combo of temp, density and volume just right. My builds try to find the center of all that to allow the greatest variety in the draw. In other words, not purely DL and not MTL. I use the widest bore DT that's possible without overwhelming the coil. At the end of the day it's all about the draw.

These delightful episodes of chaining are routinely interrupted however by powerful bouts of direct to lung without any respect whatsoever to whether I'm vaping 15W or 100. I make no apologies.

In sum your observations to me reaffirm the basic idea that for the best vape we need to build for the device.

Good luck mc.

 

[MacTechVpr]

@stols001 you caught me cheating. I am an unrepentant post-editor.

Good luck.

 

[Carl2]

The post brings back memories of when I first started vaping with a Kanger top box mini, a little vapor and no flavor. The 18 mg nicotine worked and I was able to stop the cigs. I had to go to a Eleaf Pico with a melo tank to get any flavor. Seems like she's getting good advice from some of the Masters.

 

[QcVaper]

I don't know WHAT I'm doing wrong! I couldn't even get clouds using high VG on a Griffin 25+ tank! No matter how high I went in wattage!!!

What's your complete setup you use right now ? Also how are you inhaling dtl or mtl ? there's tons of reasons on why you don't get clouds so a bit more infos would help if you need help

 

[Breezy Dawn]

What's your complete setup you use right now ? Also how are you inhaling dtl or mtl ? there's tons of reasons on why you don't get clouds so a bit more infos would help if you need help

I use in rotation a pico,coolfire 4,coolfire 18650 and 2 provaris,lol. I do like the idea of safe,thats why im skiddish about upping my wattage. Using the subtank mini with RBA all the time. I prefer MTL. I have upped it to 15 watts on this 1.4 coil and it is better but will also keep trying new things too. I had no idea i would end up chasing a cloud when i started..

 

[QcVaper]

I use in rotation a pico,coolfire 4,coolfire 18650 and 2 provaris,lol. I do like the idea of safe,thats why im skiddish about upping my wattage. Using the subtank mini with RBA all the time. I prefer MTL. I have upped it to 15 watts on this 1.4 coil and it is better but will also keep trying new things too. I had no idea i would end up chasing a cloud when i started..

I wasen't quoting you,unless you're also chelsB. Also cloud chasing is mostly assiociated with sub 0hm vaping, if you're doing mtl with above 0hm setups that's not cloud chasing at all lolz.

 

[Breezy Dawn]

I wasen't quoting you,unless you're also chelsB. Also cloud chasing is mostly assiociated with sub 0hm vaping, if you're doing mtl with above 0hm setups that's not cloud chasing at all lolz.

Opps!! No i am not,i missed your quote. Sorry bout that!

 

[QcVaper]

Opps!! No i am not,i missed your quote. Sorry bout that!

No worries happens to me too ahah

 

[Alter]

I don't think the OP builds their own coils but if they do decide one day. I use a subtank mini with the RBA. I'm a clapton user, rarely use any single wire coils anymore, built lots of subohm coils but wanting something over 1.2ohm for my provari work atty. To get that using 28 gauge it has to be 3.0 or3.5mm ID with 5 wraps, being a spaced clapton, its a tight fit, lots of rayon and more restricted airflow past the coil from the coil being so big and fat. The coil still borderlined 1.1-1.2 and sometimes get the low ohm error.
For chits-&-giggles I clapton'd up some 30 gauge kanthal with 34SS wrap wire, 4 wraps using a 2.5mm rod worked great being 1 less wrap, achieved 1.4ohm and have more airflow space around the coil. Quite the faster ramp up time compared to the 28 gauge so easier on the battery. The 30/34 clapton produces a nice vape being the higher ohm build that I was looking for, now finding the best ID match to get a 1.6ohm target for my wife's vape.
I've been building claptons for quite a long time now and it took several crown and cokes for the idea to try to clapton 30 gauge wire.

 

[stols001]

You can get to a fairly airy MTL with the right settings, QC I have a tank that is at 0.6 and fairly cloudy, but it's marketed as a sub0hm MTL tank, and that's what it does. I get MOUTHFULS of vapor, and were I to run it at its recommended settings, (I don't) I'm fairly sure I could chuck a decent cloud, provided I did not *choke* on the smoke, as it really does pool in my mouth, prior to inhaling it. Of course, I have the MTL handicap of having to use 100% VG, I'm usually trying to *minimize* my clouds. I've turned my wattage up and had cloudy sessions, enough so that the husband didn't like it and told me to knock it off, LOL.

You'd be surprised what us little MTL-ers can do. You can get a pretty darn cloudy vape if you play your cards right.

Anna

 

[Beamslider]

I have a Subtank mini that I use. Not sure what you are looking for but if you want more vapor I think you need to lower the ohms on the build. I do mostly MTL but occasionally do DTL.

I have tried dozens of different builds but for me there are a couple that work better. I can get a lot of vapor out these builds with changing temp or wattage or cut it back some. You also need to play with air flow.

I have settled on two that I like the best of all builds. Neither one takes much wattage and can produce a similar to cigarette experience for me on the amount of vapor.

AWG 26 Kanthal at 1 ohm
AWG 27 SS316L at .6 ohm used in TC

Your mileage is going to vary depending on what you like.

 

[Beamslider]

The coil resistance, by itself, tells you nothing about the coil or the vape. With most setups you can make some assumptions and therefore the resistance tells you a little. But you really need to know something else about it, such as wire type/size and number of coils. Then resistance can be used to calculate how much wire was used, which is more interesting. Even with mech mods, the resistance only really tells you how much power will flow, not whether the coil is up to using that much power, but then once you add an assumption it works well, then indeed it has to be the lower resistance coils are bigger and can actually handle more power.

Myself, the highest power I ever used for more than a minute was at 2.4Ω and one of my lowest power Kanthal coils was .6 ohm. The 2.4 ohm was 30 or 32 gauge dual twisted to had four times as much wire in it than 2.4 ohms of a single wire the same gauge and ran at 7.2 volts or so. The .6 ohm was #26 wire wrapped around a 1/16" drill bit running 11 watts at about 2.6 volts.

The surface area of the coil is the most meaningful measure of its size. The total power divided by the total surface area is the heat flux, a measure of power density. Surface area is increased with a thicker wire, which has lower resistance. Surface area is also increased by a longer wire of the same thickness, which has higher resistance despite handling more power. Note that if you change the resistance by changing wire material but not the size of the coil it makes no difference to the power capacity of the coil.

Of course that's just the coil itself, for more power you also need more airflow, more wicking, more room for the coil and the heat.

I like a sort of modified, loose (lazy) draw MtL to restricted lung hit area. At about 15 watts this doesn't immediately cloud the room, but it is comfortable to go at it until seeming ridiculous to non-vapers. I'm running 8.5 wraps #28 SS on about 3/32" diameter. This comes out to about .72Ω but is almost identical to about 1.3Ω Kanthal. As to TC, it allows setting just a tad more power and protects from dry hits, but really isn't that much different. I consider correct power setting essential to TC. With higher power setting, I got a weak hit at 450 degrees, with correct setting I use 400 degrees and it hardly ever goes into protection.

You are absolutely right about the wattage on TC. I didn't like TC much until I started playing with the Wattage. I originally thought that you just let the power stay at a high level and TC would fix it all. Not the way it works as far as I have seen. You still need to set a wattage that works right with it.

 

[QcVaper]

You can get to a fairly airy MTL with the right settings, QC I have a tank that is at 0.6 and fairly cloudy, but it's marketed as a sub0hm MTL tank, and that's what it does. I get MOUTHFULS of vapor, and were I to run it at its recommended settings, (I don't) I'm fairly sure I could chuck a decent cloud, provided I did not *choke* on the smoke, as it really does pool in my mouth, prior to inhaling it. Of course, I have the MTL handicap of having to use 100% VG, I'm usually trying to *minimize* my clouds. I've turned my wattage up and had cloudy sessions, enough so that the husband didn't like it and told me to knock it off, LOL.

You'd be surprised what us little MTL-ers can do. You can get a pretty darn cloudy vape if you play your cards right.

Anna

Oh no worries i didn't mean you couldn't do it, i was just saying that it's "mostly" meant that way since like you said you don't cloud chase with a mtl setup yourself and i doubt mtl people cloud chase but nice from you to correct me i didn't know sub 0hm setup could be aimed at mtl folks (i've yet to see something of the sort but i'm still fairly new myself so no surprise there XD) All i know is that most sub 0hm are for higher vg content and bigger clouds (again mostly not entirely ) i've used a .7 0hm coil on my nautilus before i sold it and it was to me more of a restricted dtl inhale rather then a mtl even though i could do both, it was a very comfy vape for both imho but not "airy" enough for my taste.

Again i'm no pro, just a guy trying to learn as much as possible everyday ahah

 

[stols001]

Yeah this vapefly Nicholas mod is an odd beast. It's not overwhelming, but it's definitely what it says, a "MTL sub0hm tank" at least with the 0.6 coil. That is still vastly different than running a 0.15 coil at much higher watts for direct lung inhale, but some tanks are kinda crossover tanks. The person who sent it to me doesn't MTL anymore, and was laughing at my description of it in tootlepuffers as "very cloudy." "Very cloudy" to me is quite different than for some, that's certain.

Anna