Steeping juice...here's an explanation I received

[DoctorJ]

I recently ordered a bottle of The Cure from Nicoticket and the flavor was very weak. The bottle's born on date was 11 months ago. I contacted them via IM on their site and received their company line of, "It is as fresh as the day it is bottled." Well I don't think that's true, but they stand by that. I called and talked to their director of operations. A very nice lady and we chatted about the bottle I received and she told me that she had recently vaped some of the same juice from the same batch and she told me it was fine to her. She agreed to send me another bottle from the same batch and I agreed to send mine back, at my expense. The theory for this is that I may have received a bottle where the seal had been compromised and it may just be a "one bad bottle" issue.

So to the crux of this post. She explained to me that the steeping process begins when the bottle is first opened and allowed to breathe. She went on to explain that the amber bottles they use is to help protect the juice from light and so on. Now when I get a bottle of made to order juice, I always put it in a box and place it in my juice cabinet and let it sit for a minimum of a month. Some juices take longer, but after a month the juice is usually good to go. For the most part I've found that most juices start to decline in flavor after 6 months or so. I've had juices that have somehow been pushed to the back and forgotten for 8 or 9 months and they tended to be very weak in flavor if not unvapeable or don't taste anything like they should.

I was just wondering if anyone agreed or disagreed with the steeping explanation I received. Yes I'm aware of keeping juice out of light, away from heat, etc. But I just thought it odd that I was told the process began once the bottle was opened, even 11 months later.

Anyone have any thoughts or experiences that could prove or disprove this theory?

 

[pappcam]

I have quite a few juices that I've had for a few weeks/months and they taste the taste the same to me no matter how old they are. Maybe DIY liquids need to sit for a bit to fully mix but my vendor supplied juices have never "needed" steeping.

 

[LMS62]

I had the same concern with Nicoticket roughly 6 weeks ago. I received the juice that I ordered, and according to the bottles, the juice was almost 18 months old. I started a thread (titled "is this normal) on their ECF forum, asking the same question. I was also given the standard company line, as well as some unprofessional comments by the owner of Nicoticket. When I explained that they just lost a customer, their response was "win some/lose some".

 

[ShishkaBerry]

I had the same concern with Nicoticket roughly 6 weeks ago. I received the juice that I ordered, and according to the bottles, the juice was almost 18 months old. I started a thread (titled "is this normal) on their ECF forum, asking the same question. I was also given the standard company line, as well as some unprofessional comments by the owner of Nicoticket. When I explained that they just lost a customer, their response was "win some/lose some".

And that folks is how to run yourself out of business. If I were you I'd be posting the customer service experience everywhere to warn others

 

[DoctorJ]

I had the same concern with Nicoticket roughly 6 weeks ago. I received the juice that I ordered, and according to the bottles, the juice was almost 18 months old. I started a thread (titled "is this normal) on their ECF forum, asking the same question. I was also given the standard company line, as well as some unprofessional comments by the owner of Nicoticket. When I explained that they just lost a customer, their response was "win some/lose some".

Wow. That's surprising. The lady I talked to was very nice. I received the replacement bottle today and tried it, same as the other bottle. The flavor was very weak and seemed a bit flatter. I should've kept the first bottle.

Well they are one of the few companies that actually put the born on date on the bottle, which I like. However, if Nicoticket is going to send out juice that is so old, I don't believe I'll be ordering anymore, which is a shame because I really liked The Cure.

 

[LMS62]

Honestly, it surprised me a bit too. The owner, Kent Brooks, did finally answer my question on their thread by stating that it is "normal" for them to send out juice that old. The juice was 30% off when I ordered it, so my first thought when I received it was that it was discounted because of the age....but again, according to Nicoticket, that was normal and had nothing to do with the discount.

 

[defdock]

Everyone has a theory.

Mine - juice does take time to "steep" to allow full/max mixture and oxidize(also adds/changes) flavor notes, but some "notes" do taste off when allowed to fully mix with other notes. As far as personal juice I've had, a few "store" juices did get worse over time but most were fine/better after time. All diy I've made has gotten better after steeping, nothing has yet to get worse. Current batch is an 8month vanilla tobacco menthol and a 12month bubblegum. The bubblegum I absolutely hated when mixed since it tastes like authentic "made from scratch" pink gum including licorice, but 12 months later the licorice is gone and it's alot more paletable/enjoyable.

As far as the OP, I could be wrong, but I expect nicoticket uses an airtight seal machine for the bottles. They may fully mix, but only half steep without opening due to no oxygen present to medle with the chemistry/taste.

 

[LMS62]

Everyone has a theory.

Mine - juice does take time to "steep" to allow full/max mixture and oxidize(also adds/changes) flavor notes, but some "notes" do taste off when allowed to fully mix with other notes. As far as personal juice I've had, a few "store" juices did get worse over time but most were fine/better after time. All diy I've made has gotten better after steeping, nothing has yet to get worse. Current batch is an 8month vanilla tobacco menthol and a 12month bubblegum. The bubblegum I absolutely hated when mixed since it tastes like authentic "made from scratch" pink gum including licorice, but 12 months later the licorice is gone and it's alot more paletable/enjoyable.

As far as the OP, I could be wrong, but I expect nicoticket uses an airtight seal machine for the bottles. They may fully mix, but only half steep without opening due to no oxygen present to medle with the chemistry/taste.

I guess what throws me off is that Nicoticket states that the juice doesn't start steeping until the air tight seal is broken when the customer opens the bottle....yet their website says all of their juices are "adequately pre-steeped", and will continue to mature after the born-on date.

 

[defdock]

What I'm guessing by the description, is it is half "steeped".

Fully blended, sure. Fully oxidized, no where near, and don't start till ya "open the bottle"

 

[Jdurand]

The need for customer service really went out the window last weekend......why would I care about customers I won't have in the near future?

 

[Jorge22]

No. Steeping begins once the mix is done. It's not even recommended to leave the bottles opened as many people do - that will only serve to oxidize the nicotine in it. When you make a juice, close the bottle, shake it well and let it be for a while. That's it.
If it's about pre-made liquids, no need for steeping really. They've been on the shelves for long enough.

 

[renorat]

I guess what throws me off is that Nicoticket states that the juice doesn't start steeping until the air tight seal is broken when the customer opens the bottle....yet their website says all of their juices are "adequately pre-steeped", and will continue to mature after the born-on date.

I think that last statement is a leftover from when they used the plastic bottles. With these new bottles there are juices I like fresh and others...ACB and Cure, that once I receive I crack, allow to breathe a bit, reseal and shake and put away. They just get richer in flavor, to me, after some time. Found a bottle that had a small amount of ACB that was about 18 months old and it was HEAVEN!
The old Got Cookie is a good example. Fresh there was a mint note, much like eating a Girl Scout Thin Mint cookie. Some people loved the mint and were disappointed when it went away, others didn't like it at all because of the mint. Within a few weeks of cracking the bottle, airing, shaking and letting sit that mint note was gone. I'm vaping Got Cookie with a BOD of 12/23/14 right now and to me it's just as good as it was when I opened the first bottle that long ago. I'm still getting the mint note when I first open one of these glass bottles.

 

[Mike Geaney]

I can only speak to my personal experience. Your mileage may vary. Typically I let all my Nicoticket juices air out a bit...at least a day or two. That said I do feel that certain juices require a bit more. Specifically Raz Cup and Date Night. I love both juices but only after I have transferred them into LDPE plastic bottles and have let them chill a few weeks. Caps off here and there with a shake here and there too.

 

[Katia]

I guess what throws me off is that Nicoticket states that the juice doesn't start steeping until the air tight seal is broken when the customer opens the bottle....yet their website says all of their juices are "adequately pre-steeped", and will continue to mature after the born-on date.

You bring up a good point. The information we have on our website does contradict itself. We DO pre-steep the liquid prior to bottling - however, I think removing the word "adequately" would help. Everyone's taste points vary in regards to how well they prefer their liquid steeped. We do plan on going through the site within the next month and removing and adding more relevant information. I apologize that this hasn't been done yet. Just a few of us work at Nicoticket - and some things get pushed to back burner. If ever you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to reach out to me directly. I will do my best to answer them.

 

[Katia]

I recently ordered a bottle of The Cure from Nicoticket and the flavor was very weak. The bottle's born on date was 11 months ago. I contacted them via IM on their site and received their company line of, "It is as fresh as the day it is bottled." Well I don't think that's true, but they stand by that. I called and talked to their director of operations. A very nice lady and we chatted about the bottle I received and she told me that she had recently vaped some of the same juice from the same batch and she told me it was fine to her. She agreed to send me another bottle from the same batch and I agreed to send mine back, at my expense. The theory for this is that I may have received a bottle where the seal had been compromised and it may just be a "one bad bottle" issue.

So to the crux of this post. She explained to me that the steeping process begins when the bottle is first opened and allowed to breathe. She went on to explain that the amber bottles they use is to help protect the juice from light and so on. Now when I get a bottle of made to order juice, I always put it in a box and place it in my juice cabinet and let it sit for a minimum of a month. Some juices take longer, but after a month the juice is usually good to go. For the most part I've found that most juices start to decline in flavor after 6 months or so. I've had juices that have somehow been pushed to the back and forgotten for 8 or 9 months and they tended to be very weak in flavor if not unvapeable or don't taste anything like they should.

I was just wondering if anyone agreed or disagreed with the steeping explanation I received. Yes I'm aware of keeping juice out of light, away from heat, etc. But I just thought it odd that I was told the process began once the bottle was opened, even 11 months later.

Anyone have any thoughts or experiences that could prove or disprove this theory?

I'm sorry to hear that the second bottle didn't work for you. I did try the bottle you sent back and found the flavor to be what we expect it to be for a high VG juice. I used a dripper with a .30 Ohm Coil and vaped it at 36 Watts. It's a difficult line to tread - the line between "fresh" liquid and "aged" liquid. We've sent out "fresh" liquid before and the majority of those that received it - were wholly unsatisfied and preferred "aged." Now that we are sending out "aged" liquid - people are turned off by the Born On dates. As a company, we are still trying to find the sweet spot that the majority of vapors prefer. I wish that I had a better answer. Please know that any and all feedback is taken to heart and we do our best to improve with each interaction. We may fail at times - but the point is, we care and we keep trying.

(To further clarify, when I say "aged," I do not mean "steeped." Age is in reference to the actual age of the liquid. Steeped is in reference to how the liquid has melded together over time.)

 

[DoctorJ]

(To further clarify, when I say "aged," I do not mean "steeped." Age is in reference to the actual age of the liquid. Steeped is in reference to how the liquid has melded together over time.)

First of all I appreciate the time you took to talk to me about your juices. The comment above is basically a lesson in semantics. Aged, steeping...Can't really see the difference. Aging is a process of steeping. However, it seems that steeping has quite a few different definitions. Some say steeping is just letting the juice sit until it reaches "maximum potential flavor". Other say it is the previous process plus letting the juice "breathe". And there are a few others that, well, their definition doesn't really make sense to me, but everyone has an opinion.

I've found that with "made to order" juices that they need to sit in a cool dark place for at least 3-4 weeks and breathe over night, or two, and they are ready to vape. However, I've found that even a bottle of juice that is 6-8 months old starts to change in flavor, some for the better and some for the worst. But this is where we get to the adage, "taste is subjective". The bottle I sent back to you you said was what you would expect, OK, based on the previous 4 or 5 orders of that same juice, it was not to me. A few factors come into play here: age of the juice, storage of the juice, consistency of ingredients and processing. I have a few other juices that are a must have in my rotation and they don't or haven't changed in flavor ever. They are the same every time, every bottle.

As far as the debate over whether customers like their juices "aged" more or less, well that goes back to the subjective part of juices. Personally I prefer juices that are relatively newer for the fact that I can steep them longer if need be. Older juices it seems that steeping longer either makes them less flavorful or totally unvapeable. The point I'm getting at here is that in a previous order I asked that I not be sent juices that were beyond a certain age and I received the company rhetorical line of, "They are as fresh as the day they were bottled". That being the case, why would a born on date even be necessary and according to that statement, it is implied that if the juice were 3 years old it would be as good as new.

I understand that you do care about your customers, however, understanding and complying with a request is two different things. If you didn't have any juice that was less than the age requested, just say so and offer a different solution such as substitution or canceling the order. I was just wondering, I ordered a 60ml bottle that was beyond the age I'd requested previously. Did you happen to have any other sized bottles that were within the age dates I requested? I wouldn't have minded having 2 30ml bottles or 4 15 ml bottles.

 

[Katia01]

First of all I appreciate the time you took to talk to me about your juices. The comment above is basically a lesson in semantics. Aged, steeping...Can't really see the difference. Aging is a process of steeping. However, it seems that steeping has quite a few different definitions. Some say steeping is just letting the juice sit until it reaches "maximum potential flavor". Other say it is the previous process plus letting the juice "breathe". And there are a few others that, well, their definition doesn't really make sense to me, but everyone has an opinion.

I've found that with "made to order" juices that they need to sit in a cool dark place for at least 3-4 weeks and breathe over night, or two, and they are ready to vape. However, I've found that even a bottle of juice that is 6-8 months old starts to change in flavor, some for the better and some for the worst. But this is where we get to the adage, "taste is subjective". The bottle I sent back to you you said was what you would expect, OK, based on the previous 4 or 5 orders of that same juice, it was not to me. A few factors come into play here: age of the juice, storage of the juice, consistency of ingredients and processing. I have a few other juices that are a must have in my rotation and they don't or haven't changed in flavor ever. They are the same every time, every bottle.

As far as the debate over whether customers like their juices "aged" more or less, well that goes back to the subjective part of juices. Personally I prefer juices that are relatively newer for the fact that I can steep them longer if need be. Older juices it seems that steeping longer either makes them less flavorful or totally unvapeable. The point I'm getting at here is that in a previous order I asked that I not be sent juices that were beyond a certain age and I received the company rhetorical line of, "They are as fresh as the day they were bottled". That being the case, why would a born on date even be necessary and according to that statement, it is implied that if the juice were 3 years old it would be as good as new.

I understand that you do care about your customers, however, understanding and complying with a request is two different things. If you didn't have any juice that was less than the age requested, just say so and offer a different solution such as substitution or canceling the order. I was just wondering, I ordered a 60ml bottle that was beyond the age I'd requested previously. Did you happen to have any other sized bottles that were within the age dates I requested? I wouldn't have minded having 2 30ml bottles or 4 15 ml bottles.

I'm sorry, I thought that I had covered that question when we spoke on the phone regarding the replacement bottle. [emoji53] The Cure is being phased out and we have no bottles that are newer than what you received. This matter is obviously not resolved for you and I would like to do what I can to remedy your situation. Could you send me an email so that I can further address this with you directly?

 

[DoctorJ]

I'm sorry, I thought that I had covered that question when we spoke on the phone regarding the replacement bottle. [emoji53] The Cure is being phased out and we have no bottles that are newer than what you received. This matter is obviously not resolved for you and I would like to do what I can to remedy your situation. Could you send me an email to katy@nicoticket.com so that I can further address this with you directly?

I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding about The Cure being phased out. If you mentioned that I don't recall. I've emailed you to let you know I'm satisfied and that there is not an issue. I was just responding to your post, which I didn't know that ECF had moved it to your page. Originally it was in the General Vaping threads.

 

[Kent Brooks]

I recently ordered a bottle of The Cure from Nicoticket and the flavor was very weak. The bottle's born on date was 11 months ago. I contacted them via IM on their site and received their company line of, "It is as fresh as the day it is bottled." Well I don't think that's true, but they stand by that. I called and talked to their director of operations. A very nice lady and we chatted about the bottle I received and she told me that she had recently vaped some of the same juice from the same batch and she told me it was fine to her. She agreed to send me another bottle from the same batch and I agreed to send mine back, at my expense. The theory for this is that I may have received a bottle where the seal had been compromised and it may just be a "one bad bottle" issue.

So to the crux of this post. She explained to me that the steeping process begins when the bottle is first opened and allowed to breathe. She went on to explain that the amber bottles they use is to help protect the juice from light and so on. Now when I get a bottle of made to order juice, I always put it in a box and place it in my juice cabinet and let it sit for a minimum of a month. Some juices take longer, but after a month the juice is usually good to go. For the most part I've found that most juices start to decline in flavor after 6 months or so. I've had juices that have somehow been pushed to the back and forgotten for 8 or 9 months and they tended to be very weak in flavor if not unvapeable or don't taste anything like they should.

I was just wondering if anyone agreed or disagreed with the steeping explanation I received. Yes I'm aware of keeping juice out of light, away from heat, etc. But I just thought it odd that I was told the process began once the bottle was opened, even 11 months later.

Anyone have any thoughts or experiences that could prove or disprove this theory?

I think you did a fine job of explaining this for everyone's benefit. In our experience, the steeping process is vastly different in amber brown glass bottles as compared to our old LDPE plastic bottles. One of the big reasons we changed bottles is that it results in a more consistent product.

We pre-steep (speed steep) the liquid before it's bottled, and then bottle the liquid the after that pre-steeping process... if anything, the liquid errors towards being too fresh, as opposed to being over-steeped.

For additional steeping, we recommend shaking and leaving the cap off (until the bubbles rise and travel completely through the liquid). Another option is to transfer the liquid to a unicorn bottle (which can be purchased on our website!

I hope that helps!

~Clark

 

[Kent Brooks]

I had the same concern with Nicoticket roughly 6 weeks ago. I received the juice that I ordered, and according to the bottles, the juice was almost 18 months old. I started a thread (titled "is this normal) on their ECF forum, asking the same question. I was also given the standard company line, as well as some unprofessional comments by the owner of Nicoticket. When I explained that they just lost a customer, their response was "win some/lose some".

I learned my lesson - never try to do customer service from tapatalk at midnight.