Stop the FDA from banning Electronic Ciagrettes

[mutt4a]

Sure, its driven by money, but not necessarily the same way many are presenting it here. tobacco lobbies spend a fortune and its going to have huge impacts on what gets decided. I dont think we have the money to offset that, and whining about their money influence isn't gonna change anything, and the courts have already weighed in on trying to do anything to stop the influence of that money anyway.

We need to out maneuver their money influence. The way to do that is in NUMBERS of people using these things. If there is truth to the quoted values of 20-30k people changing over each week this is all a mute point. In a month or so there will be so many people using them a ban would be so absurd they would give it up. Unfortunately the numbers, like so many "facts" given in this type of debate aren't likely to be true.

Second isnt pointing out that the other guy isnt required to behave properly a rather lame excuse for not requiring ourselves to behave properly? tobacco and the companion industries are corrupt and abusive.. Do we really want to use what is/is not happening in that realm to be the model for what our new cottage industry is? I for one don't.

 

[LowThudd]

Second isnt pointing out that the other guy isnt required to behave properly a rather lame excuse for not requiring ourselves to behave properly? tobacco and the companion industries are corrupt and abusive.. Do we really want to use what is/is not happening in that realm to be the model for what our new cottage industry is? I for one don't.

Not a lame excuse. It's called precident. If you consider how similar vaping is to smoking, they are just different methods of the same type of "recreation". And nic makes it similar also.

 

[mutt4a]

But its a BAD precident -- Why would you want to follow that, or be associated with it? So its similar, why would we want it to be the same? its better isnt it? why degrade vaping to standards of the tobacco industry? Dont we want to be better?

 

[LowThudd]

But its a BAD precident -- Why would you want to follow that, or be associated with it? So its similar, why would we want it to be the same? its better isnt it? why degrade vaping to standards of the tobacco industry? Dont we want to be better?

Legal precidents are often not the desired approach, but the neccessary means to an end. The justice system isn't perfect, and often plays dumb until facts are presented to debunk the progression of a manuever like the FDA is taking.

 

[mutt4a]

And i would agree, IF the action is to ban my ejuice bacause it is a nicotine device then you must BAN the cigarettes.

But lets be realistic. the FDA is not going to ban cigarettes, nor the patches. It is, entirely likely, it will ban our juice. We need to find a better argument, because whining about how the tobacco industry is being treated aint gonna cut it, we just look childish.

 

[voltaire]

This is from TODAY!

FDA acts against 5 electronic cigarette distributors

E-cigs: E-cigarette companies get FDA warning - latimes.com

 

[LowThudd]

And i would agree, IF the action is to ban my ejuice bacause it is a nicotine device then you must BAN the cigarettes.

But lets be realistic. the FDA is not going to ban cigarettes, nor the patches. It is, entirely likely, it will ban our juice. We need to find a better argument, because whining about how the tobacco industry is being treated aint gonna cut it, we just look childish.

See it as childish or not, that is how the law works. If you can show IN COURT that there is a bias to a product when compared to a similar product, then that is a good defensive precident. I think the whole arguement against e-cigs is childish.

 

[Highlyrated]

This is from TODAY!

FDA acts against 5 electronic cigarette distributors

E-cigs: E-cigarette companies get FDA warning - latimes.com

I kind of was relieved when I read the actual report. It doesn't seem the FDA is on a crusade to outright ban e-cigs. They just want to make sure these companies aren't making unsubstantiated claims and that the companies are putting out warnings that nicotine isn't safe and can only be sold to those 18 and above.

Or is my optimism unfound? Is this just going to lead to a slippery slope of outright banning them?

 

[son et lumiere]

I think they will be deemed safe. The question is how long will it tak to do so.

 

[Sainted_S]

What really has me most up-at-arms about the FDA is the fact that they are there for our "protection," yet when there is an alternative to something that kills they want to run tests on its safety. I don't know, perhaps ecigs are unhealthy, it's true that there aren't any long term health studies, but the FDA is turning a blind eye for the benefit of big tobacco at those of us who have chosen to stop killing ourselves with cigarettes. It goes against there own job description to take away our lifelines and through us back into the cesspool of tobacco use. Rather than having ecigs banned because there are suppositions they may cause harm, perhaps legislation of them should wait until there is evidence that they cause harm. It is an "innocent until proven guilty" kind of democracy, right? Oh, yeah, that kinda went out the window a few administrations ago, of course the FDA jumped right onto that bandwagon.

 

[OldDragon]

Stop and think a moment - they want the makers of juices to have all the quality control of the big drug makers, most of our suppliers can not support a staff large enough to forfill the FDA's requirements. -juice supplies are out of busness. They would not be able to create all the new flavors, each must under go years of testing. Fda stance, we are not stopping the sale of these things, just want them to live upto the standards of other drugs.

That is what big goverment is all about, do it our way or not at all. People are not smart enough to care for them selfs. And any one that can get away with something, they will. Look at all the problems we have with big busness, tainted eggs/chickens-they knew they were bad, but sold as many as they could before they were caught. The oil spill, management over riding safty standards. and on it goes.... The big companies can get away with anything and if caught, pay a small price for it.

The small group or single persons do not stand a chance against the goverment when someone in big picture finds something go aginst. The only way we can do something is to have a large group out on the streets with posters waving and TV crews covering the event. And you can not do it just once, it would take years of protest. I could go on, but as a smoker I'm use to hiding and not to raise issues.... What do you mean I can't smoke within 100ft of your door, ...

 

[DC2]

I kind of was relieved when I read the actual report. It doesn't seem the FDA is on a crusade to outright ban e-cigs. They just want to make sure these companies aren't making unsubstantiated claims and that the companies are putting out warnings that nicotine isn't safe and can only be sold to those 18 and above.

Or is my optimism unfound?

Yes, your optimism is unfounded.

If you read it again, the FDA is saying them want to make sure they are safe and effective.
And effective means effective as a stop-smoking treatment.
And that means a drug delivery device.

And that means removal from the market until proven safe and effective.
And that equals banned.

 

[MoonRose]

*Wonder's if a march on Washington, D.C. with big signs would do any good*

 

[The Rebel]

Does it bother anyone that juice makers are not regulated? Does it bother anyone that any person that wants to pick up an LLC and some DIY supplies can sell juice? It bothers me. Say what you want about some of the Chinese suppliers, but check out Dekang. State of the art facility, certified by SGS (google them, huge certification company), and ISO 9001 certified. I'd rather have them making my juice then some person making it up in their garage. What happens when one of these suppliers makes a mistake on the nic content of a sample and someone gets seriously sick? I'm all for not banning e-cigarettes, and I'm all for testing juices for safety, but I am really for the regulation of juice suppliers. I want to know what's in it, how much, and I want my juice supplier certified with a good quality control system in place. Nicotine is a poison and for that reason there should be regulations on how it used and distributed.

It doesn't stop me from vaping, but it's always in the back of my mind whenever I crack a new sample from a USA juice supplier. What if....

 

[frisco]

CES, your petition closed for signatures on 9/1 didn't it?

Maybe the FDA should focus on proving that they aren't effective or safe rather than putting the burden on us to prove that they are? I know, I'm naive!

 

[DC2]

CES, your petition closed for signatures on 9/1 didn't it?

It doesn't appear to be closed.

 

[bigoted]

I was trying to help you guys out but what a shame i couldn't
* This petition sends letters to an individual's specific elected officials based on their address. You must live in the U.S. to sign this petition *

 

[els03]

it could def. work if we stick together and do what needs to be done.

 

[CES]

CES, your petition closed for signatures on 9/1 didn't it?

Maybe the FDA should focus on proving that they aren't effective or safe rather than putting the burden on us to prove that they are? I know, I'm naive!

It doesn't appear to be closed.

The petition website says that was due to be closed on 9-1, but it does appear to still be open. So I'd suggest signing online , then printing and mailing the hard copies to the addresses provided.

 

[barkatt]

I signed the petition - I hope they don't ban them either, I can't afford to go back to analogs - it's over $10 a pack for Marlboros here!!!!