**Sub-Ohm Vaping** Discussion, Safety, Battery Info, & Warnings

Status
Not open for further replies.

xpen

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 18, 2012
834
1,274
Italy
(wrong thread?)

Whatever keeps you vaping, it's good enough :)

Not sold on micro coils. As of now I prefer a 3/2 wrap of 28 vs a 6/5 of 32 gauge micro coil. They both come in around .7 to.8 ohms on a dual coil setup. I dint like the longer warm up time of the micro and don't notice any better flavor or vapor.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
 

pdib

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Nov 23, 2012
17,151
127,511
www.e-cigarette-forum.com
Tell you what, tho, gammax, serendipitous mistake tho. . .. . cause it's a good time to mention (IDK if someone already has in this thread) that micro-coils produce intense heat and many folks are of the opinion that you can get a subΩ-type vape off a low-resistance micro coil. Even if you take the micro into the subΩ region, you don't need to go nearly as low. A 0.8Ω micro, for example, will kick your pants pretty nicely!

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html
 

Jerms

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jan 1, 2011
9,252
25,831
Fargo
Tell you what, tho, gammax, serendipitous mistake tho. . .. . cause it's a good time to mention (IDK if someone already has in this thread) that micro-coils produce intense heat and many folks are of the opinion that you can get a subΩ-type vape off a low-resistance micro coil. Even if you take the micro into the subΩ region, you don't need to go nearly as low. A 0.8Ω micro, for example, will kick your pants pretty nicely!

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html

Very true. 1 ohm with 28ga Kanthal micro coil has been my sweet spot for warm, flavorful, and a LOT of vapor on a mech. 0.8 is the lowest I've gone, and it's near too much for me. I keep my drippers with the stock air hole as I don't like too airy a draw, any lower than 0.8 ohm would NEED more air flow to work for me.

But even though I stick to the 1 ohm range, I'm still following this thread because I've found out it's not JUST extreme sub-ohm builds that benefit from batteries capable of very high drain. Some seem to think that a battery rated at 20+ amps is overkill if you're not going above 5 amps, but I disagree. I still get benefits of using a battery that has low internal resistance, and with batts there's no such thing as TOO safe. I also have no need for an extra 1000 mAh that's only available under 3.5 volts.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2
 

Schnarph

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 21, 2013
4,618
9,558
Dripping Springs, TX
Nice thread! I knew almost all of this already, except for the part about max discharge dropping after many cycles. I've never gone below 0.8 ohm, that has more than enough TH for me considering the very high VG e-liquid I'm using. After 25 years of smoking, the last 15 being RYO, I like a warm vape. Using high to 100% VG makes this hard without very hot coil and often I have to sacrifice an "ideal" vape for what I consider to be "safety".

I've found myself answering the types of questions addressed here many times in the past. Judging by what I've read here I haven't strayed from the information as I am usually even more strict regarding safety. I've also run across quite a few folks that refuse to believe that sub-ohm vaping is at all necessary, and that sub-ohm vapers are "stupid" or "show-offs". Some folks are so opinionated that "YMMV" and "to each their own" is taken as an insult to intelligence. Be that as it may, you can't talk me into buying a Provari and I probably can't talk a 2+ohm vaper into using a mechanical (unless they just like collecting mods). Personally, I can get the same vapor and even better flavor from micro-coils than a standard wrap of half the resistance, but that also depends greatly on the atty used. Some rebuildables like the Hercules/Ithaka are made for dual coil; even with 2x 1.8ohm coils (for ~0.9ohm total) I am just as happy using a single 1.8 ohm micro-coil in a very small RDA or 1.2 ohms in a 22mm genesis atty. I'm not sure if "apples to oranges" applies here, but it's close enough. ;)

Again, thanks for the consolidation of information regarding sub-ohms and battery application. This is going to be very helpful to those that can find it, especially with the huge rise in 18350 mechs and 14500 mechs as well. Like replicating a motorcycle stunt, some folks are going to get hurt when cloud chasing and vaping doesn't need bad press.

IMO, sub-ohm vaping and accidentally shorted atomizers do apply to APV use. I've had a Vamo sizzle, pop, and permanently fry from a shorted atty that read 1.8 ohms. I don't have any idea if this could have caused a runaway battery, it should not have fired in the first place. Most users will not be able to detect any issues with an APV other than a DOA unit but there is much more that falls under QC no matter how much the PV costs or who makes it. Understanding ohm's law and battery limitation is very important, but any small item containing lots of energy is never going to be 100% safe.

Please pardon my verbosity. These are only my opinions, YMMV, :2c:, etc.

Edit: Multimeters... after getting 3 (2 just for vaping purposes), they are worthless to me for checking ohms so I bought an 510 ohm reading meter box. The DMM is just fine for checking continuity/shorts and battery voltage, but they vary too much even after subtracting for the resistance of the leads. Luckily they are are in stock far more often lately, and worth every penny. :2c: (x1000)
 
Last edited:

xpen

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 18, 2012
834
1,274
Italy
Received my new Samsung INR18650-20R's, 4 of them. Just to start on the right foot, on my beloved charger (XTAR WP2 II) they make no contact on the + post. Flat top, indeed.. Luckily a small neodymium magnet came to the rescue :thumb:

A bit suspicious about how good the connection charger/battery was, with a freaking magnet in between, but both batteries metered right to 4.21V afterwards :cool:. So far so good, now vaping on the first of them..
 

Rader2146

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 11, 2012
1,197
1,033
Waco, TX
Received my new Samsung INR18650-20R's, 4 of them. Just to start on the right foot, on my beloved charger (XTAR WP2 II) they make no contact on the + post. Flat top, indeed.. Luckily a small neodymium magnet came to the rescue :thumb:

A bit suspicious about how good the connection charger/battery was, with a freaking magnet in between, but both batteries metered right to 4.21V afterwards :cool:. So far so good, now vaping on the first of them..

I have the same no contact issue with my 20R's and WP2 II. I just lift the negative end of the battery slightly to angle the positive end into the contact. Though, there is nothing wrong with using a neo mag either. The nickel plating makes for a good conductor.
 

ambientech

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 27, 2011
948
967
somewhere
I am not one to play big brother but these sub ohm coils are an accident waiting to happen. The RC hobby has been using lithium batteries since they were available. We learned long ago their destructive power. If one has seen it first hand, the last thing you would be doing is risking your face. I am afraid a few people will blow up their face in the near future.
 

sawlight

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 2, 2009
7,408
10,984
Kansas
Hi folks

Prolly a dumb question, but i been wondering what happens to the amp output on batteries when they are stacked? is it still the same as the max of 1 battery?

It is the max of the lowest rated battery. Meaning if one has been cycled numerous times, the other is new, it's going to be what the old one is with it's built up internal resistance. This is why I stress labeling batteries and keeping them in pairs if you insist on stacking batteries.
 

sawlight

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 2, 2009
7,408
10,984
Kansas
I am not one to play big brother but these sub ohm coils are an accident waiting to happen. The RC hobby has been using lithium batteries since they were available. We learned long ago their destructive power. If one has seen it first hand, the last thing you would be doing is risking your face. I am afraid a few people will blow up their face in the near future.

We are very fearful of this as well! Myself, coming from the flashlight community, am also fully aware of the destructive power of these cells, this is why education on this matter is so important!
 

sawlight

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 2, 2009
7,408
10,984
Kansas
So wait - what device that is not mechanical can be used to sub-ohm? My Provari will fire a .8 - no lower.

Basically, recent Evolv products: DNA20-based devices (somehow below 1ohm) or the new Kick II (up to 0.5 ohm).

You're lucky, my provari blatantly refuses to work below 1ohm..

The DNA20 will also go into a "mechanical mode" allowing for direct drive from the battery if the circuitry will not support the load.
 

ta2dave76

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 15, 2013
413
481
Las Vegas
So if I understand correctly, my IMR 2000mah batteries are rated for 10amp?

On the ohm's calc, do I punch in 3.7v, and 10amp? With that the chart says .37 ohms, and 37w....

If that is correct, then theoretically I would be ok as long as I dont build a coil lower than .3?

Am I doing something wrong with my #'s?


No worries I have no plans to build coils anytime soon. Im doing all the research I can first.
 
Last edited:

xpen

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 18, 2012
834
1,274
Italy
If you have AW IMR 2000mah, yes they're rated for 10A discharge.

Assuming everything to be perfect, which is never the case IMO, you'd enter the danger zone at around 0.4 ohm in your scenario.

BUT consider the following:

- a fully charged battery on a 'perfect' mech (little/no V drop) may push 4.1V instead of 3.7

- resistance measurement for sub-ohm coils is an act of faith in your 5$ multimeter, more than science.

- resistance varies with coil temperature..

In other words, everything may look fine yet you may still go kaboom :)

Leaving some good margin always pays off..

So if I understand correctly, my IMR 2000mah batteries are rated for 10amp?

On the ohm's calc, do I punch in 3.7v, and 10amp? With that the chart says .37 ohms, and 37w....

If that is correct, then theoretically I would be ok as long as I dont build a coil lower than .3?

Am I doing something wrong with my #'s?


No worries I have no plans to build coils anytime soon. Im doing all the research I can first.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread