Surgeon General Wants Your Story

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sake1bs

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Surprisingly I believe that this worked out in favor of vaping.

First of all, as metioned earlier, anyone who looks at all those Stories will clearly see that vaping is an excellent option to getting off of cigarettes, as I'm sure there will be some smokers who will be inspired to switch over just based on the sheer number of success stories.

And secondly, while the Surgeon General did not formally recongnize vaping as a way to quit, he did not (as a high ranking government official) cast vaping in a negative light.

So IMHO, I see this as victory for vaping, albeit a small one, a vicorty none-the-less. :thumbs:

I agree this helps out vapors immensely, I am glad to see that it seems to have not worked out the way he intended when he posted that but gave vapors a great platform to voice all their great stories.. awesome guys
 

Jode

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I honestly have to wonder.... Maybe vaping is being brushed aside as a cessation device because it's simply trading one habit for another. (Don't get me wrong, I'd rather vape than smoke, and I smoked for 32 years) but it seems to me if you can judge what is written on this forum that most people while lowering their nicotine levels through vaping, it looks on the outside and I obviously have no facts, that most people continue to vape, where as when they use things like the patch (if it's successful for them) then when they're done, they're not still using the patch for the rest of their lives.

And yeah, some people are actually successful using the patch.


I think that many people see vaping this way because the replacement still looks similar enough to the original habit that the trade off is obvious, but I have to say this is how most habits are broken. You mention the patch. I can almost guarantee that the person that is successful with either that or the gum, lozenges, etc did replace the habit with something else that they continue to do. It may not be as obvious as vaping, but I can bet they either chew gum, suck on candies, eat sunflower seed or something that takes the place of the old habit. When I wanted/needed to stop drinking sugary soda (pepsi fiend) I needed to replace the thing in it that I was addicted to. I used black iced coffee as my replacement. I know this comes off as "what's the difference", but by doing that I reduced my harm by eliminating the processed sugar and other crap in soda while still maintaining the caffeine addiction. I was able to reduce my caffeine intake over time with the ice coffee to much healthier levels. If I had gone cold turkey I would have had severe withdrawal and gone back to my beloved (at the time) soda. BTW, I drank between 12 and 18 pepsi/day. I now drink one iced coffee in the morning and seltzer or water the rest of the day and now you could not even pay me to drink a soda. So, although they may not be using the patch for the rest of their lives, I can bet they did in fact replace their smoking habit with some other habitual thing. I also think that while most people continue to vape they probably vape less and less over time.
 

Jode

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I agree this helps out vapors immensely, I am glad to see that it seems to have not worked out the way he intended when he posted that but gave vapors a great platform to voice all their great stories.. awesome guys

Maybe he (SG) had a secret desire to do this. I mean think about it. He had to of known that these stories would be there. What if he doesn't want his buddies to know he is secretly for Vaping? He certainly laid out the red carpet for us to showcase our stories. He didn't dismiss or cover them up. I am going with the thought that vaping is a guilty pleasure that he hasn't reconciled with bringing out of the closet yet. I can see him sitting in a stall some place right now hiding his little vape and hoping his buddies cannot see him. :lol::shock:
 

Robino1

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I love that Choochoo! "Die with a chip in my mouth" <~~~ That would be me too! ;)
I am such a chip-a-holic. Forget chocolates, give me crunchy and salty.

It makes me sad an outraged that our older generation *which I am rapidly joining* have been pushed to the outer edges of society. Don't do this, don't do that. Dammit, let them enjoy what time they have on this earth.
 

choochoogranny

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Ha! Robino, try just one candy Kiss while eating a few chips.....Had to ban those things from the house!!! :)

Jode, remember the TV series Kojak and that sucker he always seemed to be sucking on? Back when before patches and nic gum were around, an ex-smoker always had candy and gum nearby and invaribly gained weight. Wasn't too long before they started smoking again; and seeing this over and over again, I decided not even to try.

Philoshop, Frank always "did it my way" and he is still admired long after he's gone......I just couldn't
pass that up. LOL :)
 

Jman8

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I think that many people see vaping this way because the replacement still looks similar enough to the original habit that the trade off is obvious, but I have to say this is how most habits are broken. You mention the patch. I can almost guarantee that the person that is successful with either that or the gum, lozenges, etc did replace the habit with something else that they continue to do. It may not be as obvious as vaping, but I can bet they either chew gum, suck on candies, eat sunflower seed or something that takes the place of the old habit. When I wanted/needed to stop drinking sugary soda (pepsi fiend) I needed to replace the thing in it that I was addicted to. I used black iced coffee as my replacement. I know this comes off as "what's the difference", but by doing that I reduced my harm by eliminating the processed sugar and other crap in soda while still maintaining the caffeine addiction. I was able to reduce my caffeine intake over time with the ice coffee to much healthier levels. If I had gone cold turkey I would have had severe withdrawal and gone back to my beloved (at the time) soda. BTW, I drank between 12 and 18 pepsi/day. I now drink one iced coffee in the morning and seltzer or water the rest of the day and now you could not even pay me to drink a soda. So, although they may not be using the patch for the rest of their lives, I can bet they did in fact replace their smoking habit with some other habitual thing. I also think that while most people continue to vape they probably vape less and less over time.

(For my reply to this, I'm going to pretend there is no such animal as ANTZ and that they don't have a political game plan visibly at work in the human society known as the world.)

I do think when people move away from one habit, that they do generally replace it with another, which is perceived by them to be less harmful. I question the less harm thing myself (routinely), but realize there is 'popular beliefs' at work that will confirm for the individual that it is 'in fact' less harmful. I do think replacement theory works wonders, is normal, and generally can lead to sense of liberation from a previous habit that seemed to be a burden toward an individual's self identity. To go from smoker (of decades) to non-smoker is very liberating, and if that is done via replacement therapy, the only person that it truly matters to is the individual who literally self identified as 'smoker' for so long, it was part of who they are.

I've gone cold turkey from smoking 3 times. Two of those times, it was me finding some other substance that would be my go to thing whenever I felt cravings. For me, that was food and I'm feeling confident that popular belief would back me up on idea that eating (lots of) food is better than smoking. Yet, one of those 3 times, was not met with typical replacement therapy. Instead, it was, in my words, a spiritual experience. I needed nothing this planet offers to overcome the addiction. I found it super duper easy to let it go, and this experience of going cold turkey lasted the longest for me (8 years). In my own words, the addiction to smoking was replaced by desire to be with Spirit, which is only about 10,000 times better than smoking. I understand from the perspective of 'popular beliefs' this leaves room for lots of questions others may have or doubts about what I was really up to in moving away from the habit. I generally have no issues discussing this with anyone, and agnostic/atheist types (that I've had discussions with) routinely come off to me as, how you say, clueless.

I say all this because from the non-user/non-smoker perspective, I do think whatever occurred the time where I was able to overcome addiction without needing another substance to fulfill the perceived void, IS the way to always go about cessation. All the other ways are seen as substituting one (bad) habit with plausibly another habit that isn't really quitting and is potentially worse (since scientific knowledge is treated as only way we can possibly know anything about anything).

I think if Surgeon General (or likes of him) were hearing messages consistently along lines of, "vaping got me to stop smoking, and after 1 month of vaping, I stopped using nicotine altogether and/or I stopped vaping as well," that our communal message would be better received.

Yet, filtering everything through cessation as if whatever was being used is inherently problematic, is neglecting a very huge piece of the puzzle, the desire to use. IMO, it is entirely foolish to downplay that desire, and treat it as something that amounts to "bad choice made a long time ago." I could (easily) write another 4 paragraphs on this, elaborating on something I consistently feel is vital to the larger discussion/debate we routinely have, but in this post I'd rather not. Instead, I'd just reiterate that while cessation has its merits and liberation from smoking is a wonderful thing, moderate smoking is, IMO, a very wonderful thing as well. Failure to understand a desire for moderate smoking (or vaping) is IMO, failure to address the real issues with addiction, and likely only treating symptoms. Forever and a day.
 

sake1bs

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Maybe he (SG) had a secret desire to do this. I mean think about it. He had to of known that these stories would be there. What if he doesn't want his buddies to know he is secretly for Vaping? He certainly laid out the red carpet for us to showcase our stories. He didn't dismiss or cover them up. I am going with the thought that vaping is a guilty pleasure that he hasn't reconciled with bringing out of the closet yet. I can see him sitting in a stall some place right now hiding his little vape and hoping his buddies cannot see him. :lol::shock:

Could definitely be true, it crossed my mind after i posted that, I am just used to giving public officials less credit then i think they deserve.. or maybe it's just because his name was written on the side of every cancer causing pack of cigarettes i used to smoke and finally have given up lol
 

Jode

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Ha! Robino, try just one candy Kiss while eating a few chips.....Had to ban those things from the house!!! :)

Jode, remember the TV series Kojak and that sucker he always seemed to be sucking on? Back when before patches and nic gum were around, an ex-smoker always had candy and gum nearby and invaribly gained weight. Wasn't too long before they started smoking again; and seeing this over and over again, I decided not even to try.

Philoshop, Frank always "did it my way" and he is still admired long after he's gone......I just couldn't
pass that up. LOL :)


Yes I remember Kojak and his Lolly. My Mom chewed gum like it was going out of style to give her mouth something to do. One time when I tried cold turkey I chewed sunflower seeds and althought they are tasty I think the mess of them was almost as disgusting as cig butts. hahaha and it didn't help for long.
 

JimDrock

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While it is true the Surgeon General wants to hear "I quit smoking 3 months ago by vaping and I just quit vaping a month ago" it just isn't going to happen that way (in most cases), and that is due to the reasons mentioned, ie addiction can/needs be replaced with something else.

That is all fine and good, but the real key here is "Not Smoking the extremely Dangerous Cigarette", and that has been the message coming from everyone (led by the Surgeon General) for years upon years.

We have all been inundated with the adverse health affects of cigarette smoking, and thus we make the connection that cigarettes are the worst thing in the world, thats what the Surgeon General and everyone else wanted us to understand.

We do understand, and so we go to achieve what is wanted of us, to quit smoking the dreaded cigarette.

We are off the cigarettes, We Vape now, the goal has been achieved.

Lets all take the time to recognize that fact, and to note that there is an easier way to get off cigarettes. After all that has been the intended Goal all these years, Right?

Just Saying :)
 

Jman8

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We have all been inundated with the adverse health affects of cigarette smoking, and thus we make the connection that cigarettes are the worst thing in the world, thats what the Surgeon General and everyone else wanted us to understand.

We do understand, and so we go to achieve what is wanted of us, to quit smoking the dreaded cigarette.

We are off the cigarettes, We Vape now, the goal has been achieved.

Lets all take the time to recognize that fact, and to note that there is an easier way to get off cigarettes. After all that has been the intended Goal all these years, Right?

Just Saying :)

What you are saying is the popular belief in vaping community. The majority opinion.

Before vaping, I didn't care much to explore the politics of anti-smoking. Since vaping, I am now entrenched in it. That we've been inundated with the adverse health effects of cigarette smoking is not really disputable. That we think cessation from smoking is the answer to that perceived problem is where I fall out of favor with majority view.

I think it better to update / change / influence the narrative around smoking, via honesty, (actual) science and reason. Otherwise, I think "they" will do the same thing with vaping, and there are clearly signs of that already occurring. Thus leading to a world where people will be convinced that vaping is really really bad for you, and must be dealt with via shaming. That we see variations of shaming on a vaping forum (i.e. how dare you vape indoors in public, won't anyone think of the children) continues to surprise me, but after umpteen posts in that vein, you realize that the enemy is within (our ranks).

So, not all of us are off cigarettes. I choose not to be, and am proud moderate smoker. I've had much experience as liberated non-smoker and honor that decision for anyone that seeks that path. But, do not get on board with those who think cessation from smoking is the only path that makes sense. IMO, it plays right into ANTZ domain, and isn't too hard to realize how same tactics could later (or now) be used to influence people to downplay/shame vapers into submission / cessation.

Might take a week, or might take another 1000 years to overcome the deceptions and shaming that have come with the anti-smoking campaign. But that is the path I have chosen, and that makes the most sense to me for the long term usage of vaping.

Just saying.
 

Jode

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(For my reply to this, I'm going to pretend there is no such animal as ANTZ and that they don't have a political game plan visibly at work in the human society known as the world.)

I do think when people move away from one habit, that they do generally replace it with another, which is perceived by them to be less harmful. I question the less harm thing myself (routinely), but realize there is 'popular beliefs' at work that will confirm for the individual that it is 'in fact' less harmful. I do think replacement theory works wonders, is normal, and generally can lead to sense of liberation from a previous habit that seemed to be a burden toward an individual's self identity. To go from smoker (of decades) to non-smoker is very liberating, and if that is done via replacement therapy, the only person that it truly matters to is the individual who literally self identified as 'smoker' for so long, it was part of who they are.

I've gone cold turkey from smoking 3 times. Two of those times, it was me finding some other substance that would be my go to thing whenever I felt cravings. For me, that was food and I'm feeling confident that popular belief would back me up on idea that eating (lots of) food is better than smoking. Yet, one of those 3 times, was not met with typical replacement therapy. Instead, it was, in my words, a spiritual experience. I needed nothing this planet offers to overcome the addiction. I found it super duper easy to let it go, and this experience of going cold turkey lasted the longest for me (8 years). In my own words, the addiction to smoking was replaced by desire to be with Spirit, which is only about 10,000 times better than smoking. I understand from the perspective of 'popular beliefs' this leaves room for lots of questions others may have or doubts about what I was really up to in moving away from the habit. I generally have no issues discussing this with anyone, and agnostic/atheist types (that I've had discussions with) routinely come off to me as, how you say, clueless.

I say all this because from the non-user/non-smoker perspective, I do think whatever occurred the time where I was able to overcome addiction without needing another substance to fulfill the perceived void, IS the way to always go about cessation. All the other ways are seen as substituting one (bad) habit with plausibly another habit that isn't really quitting and is potentially worse (since scientific knowledge is treated as only way we can possibly know anything about anything).

I think if Surgeon General (or likes of him) were hearing messages consistently along lines of, "vaping got me to stop smoking, and after 1 month of vaping, I stopped using nicotine altogether and/or I stopped vaping as well," that our communal message would be better received.

Yet, filtering everything through cessation as if whatever was being used is inherently problematic, is neglecting a very huge piece of the puzzle, the desire to use. IMO, it is entirely foolish to downplay that desire, and treat it as something that amounts to "bad choice made a long time ago." I could (easily) write another 4 paragraphs on this, elaborating on something I consistently feel is vital to the larger discussion/debate we routinely have, but in this post I'd rather not. Instead, I'd just reiterate that while cessation has its merits and liberation from smoking is a wonderful thing, moderate smoking is, IMO, a very wonderful thing as well. Failure to understand a desire for moderate smoking (or vaping) is IMO, failure to address the real issues with addiction, and likely only treating symptoms. Forever and a day.

Thanks for sharing these thoughts. I don't know if I have a proper response. My sister quit smoking cold turkey and her ability to tap into her inner spirit was her saving grace. I tried and tried but just couldn't find that inner strength, and I consider myself to be quite spiritual. I understand that to the non-user/non-smoker cessation is the only way past addiction, but I think I was trying to say that many times the habit that replaces the one that the person is trying to overcome is not always obvious and many times it is a healthy vice like a new love for physical activity like walking. We have chosen vaping to take the place of what we perceive as the more harmful vice of smoking. When I say I had tried every conceivable way to quit, I mean it. I tried everything from the approved ways to saying mantras and looking for that inner strength to get me through. I tried walking and playing sports, crafts and anything to keep my hands and thoughts busy. I chose to replace my addiction to smoking with vaping. Am I still an addict? Yes, because I know that if I started smoking again I would dive right back in. Am I getting your point or missing it? :unsure:
 

JimDrock

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Whoa, I did not mean to offend, it was just my 2 cents, and I should have loaded the post With IMHO.

IMHO, If you are vaping and smoking, I have absolutly no problem with that, it works for you.

IMHO, The point I was making is that the establisment wants cigarettes gone, vaping is an easier means for folks to do that, thus vaping should not be under the same scrutiny as cigarettes.

My 2 Cents.
 
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Jode

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What you are saying is the popular belief in vaping community. The majority opinion.

Before vaping, I didn't care much to explore the politics of anti-smoking. Since vaping, I am now entrenched in it. That we've been inundated with the adverse health effects of cigarette smoking is not really disputable. That we think cessation from smoking is the answer to that perceived problem is where I fall out of favor with majority view.

I think it better to update / change / influence the narrative around smoking, via honesty, (actual) science and reason. Otherwise, I think "they" will do the same thing with vaping, and there are clearly signs of that already occurring. Thus leading to a world where people will be convinced that vaping is really really bad for you, and must be dealt with via shaming. That we see variations of shaming on a vaping forum (i.e. how dare you vape indoors in public, won't anyone think of the children) continues to surprise me, but after umpteen posts in that vein, you realize that the enemy is within (our ranks).

So, not all of us are off cigarettes. I choose not to be, and am proud moderate smoker. I've had much experience as liberated non-smoker and honor that decision for anyone that seeks that path. But, do not get on board with those who think cessation from smoking is the only path that makes sense. IMO, it plays right into ANTZ domain, and isn't too hard to realize how same tactics could later (or now) be used to influence people to downplay/shame vapers into submission / cessation.

Might take a week, or might take another 1000 years to overcome the deceptions and shaming that have come with the anti-smoking campaign. But that is the path I have chosen, and that makes the most sense to me for the long term usage of vaping.

Just saying.

I get it now. I forgot for a moment in my last reply to you that you are a dual user. It would be nice if the actual truth about both vaping/smoking was out there. I agree that the very same thing will more then likely happen to vaping as did smoking until we are shamed into that same icky spot. I don't say this too often because as you pointed out it is not a popular stance here, but I am still very drawn to smoking and do not in anyway hate the smell of it. I really like it in fact and wish that I could be like you and smoke moderately. I have a multigenerational home. It is me, my husband, daughter, her fiance, and two grandchildren. The four of us adults vape. I vape exclusively, my husband is dual (smokes more then vapes) as does my daughters fiance, leaving my daughter who is similar to you. She vapes mostly but still has a cigarette here and there. I have always been discouraged (and still am) at the mistruths out there about smoking and now vaping. When my daughter was pregnant with my first grandchild I was read the riot act by the OB. She went on and on how Grammy (me and how she referred to me) could cause all kinds of adverse effects for the new born just by handling her and passing on Third hand smoke. Oh boy!!! She really ...... me off that day. You are correct.... there are many paths to making sound choices for ourselves that we can live with and the only right one is whatever works for the individual. I really wish I had your control and could enjoy a smoke now and again or one a day, but I know I cannot. We need to stop the shaming whether it be smoking or vaping.
 

Jman8

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Am I getting your point or missing it? :unsure:

I think you got it.

I was just adding 2 cents in from my perspective. I think from medical community / surgeon general perspective it is stop doing anything that could be of plausible harm to your body. From vaper's perspective, it is clearly, replace smoking with vaping and stick to vaping for as long as you think you might ever want to smoke again.

I'm speaking above in generalizations. Specifically, I am in vaper's perspective, but don't necessarily align with majority of vapers' approach to what vaping means in relation to smoking. Nor do I think all people in medical community want for all users to seek cessation.

I was more or less echoing your ideas about replacement, and just adding my thoughts for what worked in my case. The spiritual perspective, IMHO, is the ideal, and can be had without a spiritual text or anything outside of you to 'make it work.' To me, vaping could conceivably be a sacred / spiritual form of addressing one's own addiction to smoking. But I do think from non-user perspective, or those that choose not to walk the path of smoking/vaping, that the thing that makes most sense is to stop using altogether. I think for many non-vapers, vaping is seen as yet another crutch that didn't actually address addiction to smoking, but replaced it with equal level of addiction to nicotine.

I think for some non-vapers, or sane people, it is seen as recreational choice that does have consequences (like everything else) and that in reality, it has very little to do with smoking, nor should it be treated that way politically. I would hope most vapers are in this boat.
 

JimDrock

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I think you got it.

I was just adding 2 cents in from my perspective. I think from medical community / surgeon general perspective it is stop doing anything that could be of plausible harm to your body. From vaper's perspective, it is clearly, replace smoking with vaping and stick to vaping for as long as you think you might ever want to smoke again.

I'm speaking above in generalizations. Specifically, I am in vaper's perspective, but don't necessarily align with majority of vapers' approach to what vaping means in relation to smoking. Nor do I think all people in medical community want for all users to seek cessation.

I was more or less echoing your ideas about replacement, and just adding my thoughts for what worked in my case. The spiritual perspective, IMHO, is the ideal, and can be had without a spiritual text or anything outside of you to 'make it work.' To me, vaping could conceivably be a sacred / spiritual form of addressing one's own addiction to smoking. But I do think from non-user perspective, or those that choose not to walk the path of smoking/vaping, that the thing that makes most sense is to stop using altogether. I think for many non-vapers, vaping is seen as yet another crutch that didn't actually address addiction to smoking, but replaced it with equal level of addiction to nicotine.

I think for some non-vapers, or sane people, it is seen as recreational choice that does have consequences (like everything else) and that in reality, it has very little to do with smoking, nor should it be treated that way politically. I would hope most vapers are in this boat.

Well said, thanks. :thumbs:
 
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