Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

[super_X_drifter]

Traditional micro coils have kicked up the rebuilding game to new levels by providing an more efficient vape by providing concentrated heat and increased flavor due to their compact diameter resulting in less power consumption and a coil sized to tweak / position for optimal air flow and wicking.

Well things have been changing. Lots of behind the and in front scenes work by Mac to bring the Tensioned aspect to the micro coil have resulted in an even more efficient and productive coil.

For the most part, previous contact coils micro coils were just that - coils that "visually" appeared to contact. They were wrapped by hand forming wire around a stationary object resulting in a "pretty" coil but not a coil with the efficiency or simplicity to duplicate as a micro coil wound under the proper amount of tension that the winds truly touched.

Enter the tensioned micro coil.

These coils are wound by tensioning resistance wire as you spin a rod (as in the artistic wire coil gizmo) a pin vice or several other user conceived jigs where the wire is stationary and held in tension as the jig turns.

Don't be confused by these new devices where a "jig" of sorts forms the wire around a rod by turning an attachment that grabs the wire and forms it around a rod. Yes, it does produce a pretty coil, but we theorize that is "visually perfecting an imperfect coil"

Tensioned Micro Coils (TMC's) are where the highest levels of efficiency are gained, they are easy for even the beginner to reproduce with the same results / resistance every time and provide a perfect heating element for your atomizer.

Off Topic but noteworthy: I just tore down and rebuilt two RDAs where I realized that 28ga is less efficient than 29ga when building dual coils in the 0.6 ohm net range. Why? Because I find that it continues to cook juice / dry wick after the fire button is released. This leads to increased, unnecessary juice consumption, and higher drain on your batteries for marginal gains in vapor production. The 28 was an experiment.

What takes longer to heat up takes longer to cool down. 29 lights up immediately and cools down equally as fast. Less caramelization of juice by after burn too.

I always use 29. Here's an example of the two identical builds - 8 Tensioned winds of 29 each at 1.6mm inside diameter netting 0.6 ohms:

Wicked with KGD:

Here's the method:

http://youtu.be/sVS37CCogK8

And since we're starting a new thread about the next big thing, let's include this about battery safety, calculating amps / watts and making sure that your build is within the safe limits of your battery

http://youtu.be/QQbWVHSiltQ

 

[Flavored]

Marvelous, you're really making the gizmo sing. Wonder when Lowe's opens.

Excellent presentation, too, btw. Gonna link this into NT land for some folks trying to learn coiling, it'll help a lot.

 

[muzichead]

Great post and job Russ...

 

[super_X_drifter]

Thank you Mike. Glad you found us here now let's see some of your build pix and insight my veteran vaping amigo

 

[super_X_drifter]

Marvelous, you're really making the gizmo sing. Wonder when Lowe's opens.

Excellent presentation, too, btw. Gonna link this into NT land for some folks trying to learn coiling, it'll help a lot.

Thanks brother. Without your introduction of the gizmo I'd still be screwing around with other methods. Props homie

 

[Moxienator]

So, I've been in and out of several of these threads trying to get a better vape off my authentic KFL+V2. I tried 1/16" ID coils (on the artist jig) and found that I had a very hard time wicking them properly with cellucotton - rayon. The builds were in the 1.3-1.4R range using 28ga. I upped the ante by creating a 5/64" arm for my coiler. this produces coils in the exact same fashion on the jig, and allows a teensy bit more wick in there. This helped, but at 1.4R, it still seems too hot at the coil. I get the beginning of a dry hit at the end of each vape, never a full one though. Also, the coil is gunked after much less than a full tank, and this causes an odd note in the flavors (Nicoticket). The coil gunked a LOT less when it was slightly spaced (i really mean BARELY spaced), but the vapor production wasn't great, and at the time, I was using 3/32" ID coils. These were just not good - they over cooked remaining juice in the wick, and left those burnt trails going back into my tank. That doesn't happen now until the coil gets WAY too gunked up.

Can anyone help with the premature complete gunking phenomenon? Is it just something I'll have to deal with when using contact coils?

Should I increase resistance? Should I decrease wire gauge to 29 or so? Is my wicking technique sub par (I feel a squeak rather than hear one)? Any thoughts/tips?

 

[super_X_drifter]

So, I've been in and out of several of these threads trying to get a better vape off my authentic KFL+V2. I tried 1/16" ID coils (on the artist jig) and found that I had a very hard time wicking them properly with cellucotton - rayon. The builds were in the 1.3-1.4R range using 28ga. I upped the ante by creating a 5/64" arm for my coiler. this produces coils in the exact same fashion on the jig, and allows a teensy bit more wick in there. This helped, but at 1.4R, it still seems too hot at the coil. I get the beginning of a dry hit at the end of each vape, never a full one though. Also, the coil is gunked after much less than a full tank, and this causes an odd note in the flavors (Nicoticket). The coil gunked a LOT less when it was slightly spaced (i really mean BARELY spaced), but the vapor production wasn't great, and at the time, I was using 3/32" ID coils. These were just not good - they over cooked remaining juice in the wick, and left those burnt trails going back into my tank. That doesn't happen now until the coil gets WAY too gunked up.

Can anyone help with the premature complete gunking phenomenon? Is it just something I'll have to deal with when using contact coils?

Should I increase resistance? Should I decrease wire gauge to 29 or so? Is my wicking technique sub par (I feel a squeak rather than hear one)? Any thoughts/tips?

I've found that lower gauge wire - even just 28 cools slower than 29. That leads to increased carmelization for me.

I don't do spaced winds because not only do I find them less efficient, they are much more difficult to consistently duplicate. So not only will noobs suffer with inconsistent results, but dual coils applications will tend to be more prone to imbalance.

I don't run Rayon, just KGD and wicked properly, the wicks keep up flawlessly for 3-5 (or longer) second full lung hits with wide open airslots.

I know the rage is thick wire but the right gauge for your target resistance achieved in 8 wraps in a dual setup (less wraps = prevalent hot legs / more wraps = longer heat up and higher resistance) will vape the most efficiently resulting in less juice waste, reduced carmelization and slow battery drain.

For me, building at .6 ohms net, dual 8 wrap 1.6mm tension wound 29 ga micro coils are KILLIN it.

 

[jswag5]

i need one of those jigs!!

 

[Moxienator]

I've found that lower gauge wire - even just 28 cools slower than 29. That leads to increased carmelization for me.

I don't do spaced winds because not only do I find them less efficient, they are much more difficult to consistently duplicate. So not only will noobs suffer with inconsistent results, but dual coils applications will tend to be more prone to imbalance.

I don't run Rayon, just KGD and wicked properly, the wicks keep up flawlessly for 3-5 (or longer) second full lung hits with wide open airslots.

I know the rage is thick wire but the right gauge for your target resistance achieved in 8 wraps in a dual setup (less wraps = prevalent hot legs / more wraps = longer heat up and higher resistance) will vape the most efficiently resulting in less juice waste, reduced carmelization and slow battery drain.

For me, building at .6 ohms net, dual 8 wrap 1.6mm tension wound 29 ga micro coils are KILLIN it.

So, in a single coil "only" setup like the KFL, i'm looking for 1.3 - 1.5 ohm range with a 5/64" Inner diameter coil.
I understand that the 1/6th works well with squonking, due to the fact that you are saturating the wick whenever you feel like it.
Not so with the KFL. it relies on low pressure created by drawing on it, and will flood if the tails are too small.

( Squonking = forced saturation, whereas Vacuum Tanks = passive saturation. eh?)

So do you feel that a faster cool-down time may give me less coil gunk? That seems to be the main issue so far with the build.
I'll be wrapping a 29g 5/64" tonight, and give some feedback re: my findings.

 

[AquaLung22]

Great thread!! Excellent info as usual sup (and Mac!).. I'll be tagging along
My next vape purchase will be the coil jig, I'm pretty sure

 

[super_X_drifter]

So, in a single coil "only" setup like the KFL, i'm looking for 1.3 - 1.5 ohm range with a 5/64" Inner diameter coil.
I understand that the 1/6th works well with squonking, due to the fact that you are saturating the wick whenever you feel like it.
Not so with the KFL. it relies on low pressure created by drawing on it, and will flood if the tails are too small.

( Squonking = forced saturation, whereas Vacuum Tanks = passive saturation. eh?)

So do you feel that a faster cool-down time may give me less coil gunk? That seems to be the main issue so far with the build.
I'll be wrapping a 29g 5/64" tonight, and give some feedback re: my findings.

Bro, I'm sorry but I have no experience with the KFL but I can testify that 29 gunks less because I just concluded a lil 'speriment where I ran 28 for a few days and the coils had carmelizing on them, where's on the 29 I have zero after a few days.

I still suspect it's from the slower cool down. I also think that burns thru more juice because it's stays at vaporizing / burning temp longer once you stop firing, so it's demanding more juice. I know my juice consumption was up a 1/2 to full ml using 28 over 29 and any edge in using 28 in vapor production was negligible.

 

[Moxienator]

Thanks my friend. I'll be rewicking tonight, so maybe I'll throw in a new coil as well. I'll let you know how it goes.

sent via Droid Mini

 

[super_X_drifter]

Thanks my friend. I'll be rewicking tonight, so maybe I'll throw in a new coil as well. I'll let you know how it goes.

sent via Droid Mini

Yes, please keep us in the loop. Would love to try to be of assistance

 

[SthrnCelt]

Bro, I'm sorry but I have no experience with the KFL but I can testify that 29 gunks less because I just concluded a lil 'speriment where I ran 28 for a few days and the coils had carmelizing on them, where's on the 29 I have zero after a few days.

I still suspect it's from the slower cool down. I also think that burns thru more juice because it's stays at vaporizing / burning temp longer once you stop firing, so it's demanding more juice. I know my juice consumption was up a 1/2 to full ml using 28 over 29 and any edge in using 28 in vapor production was negligible.

I'll have to say you're probably spot on with the premise that the longer cool down causes more gunking. It makes sense that there is no air flow to pull whatever juice is being heated off the coil after you stop taking your draw, so it just sits there and cooks for a second. However, I would like to challenge you a bit. Some time back - months now - I started taking an extra second or so on my draws after releasing the fire button. I did this because I would notice vapor coming out of the drip tip or air holes and thought why not keep on pulling on it after the hit so as not to "waste" vapor. It quickly became a habit I do to this day. Atomizers started lasting longer but I never really realized why until reading this thread. So if you do another 28/29 ga comparison, try that method on the 28 ga and see if what I'm saying pans out

 

[muzichead]

I'll have to say you're probably spot on with the premise that the longer cool down causes more gunking. It makes sense that there is no air flow to pull whatever juice is being heated off the coil after you stop taking your draw, so it just sits there and cooks for a second. However, I would like to challenge you a bit. Some time back - months now - I started taking an extra second or so on my draws after releasing the fire button. I did this because I would notice vapor coming out of the drip tip or air holes and thought why not keep on pulling on it after the hit so as not to "waste" vapor. It quickly became a habit I do to this day. Atomizers started lasting longer but I never really realized why until reading this thread. So if you do another 28/29 ga comparison, try that method on the 28 ga and see if what I'm saying pans out

I do this as well since vaping 24g and 26g wire. I have found that it helps to cool the coil down quicker and doesn't cook the remaining juice in the atty.

 

[Moxienator]

I'll have to say you're probably spot on with the premise that the longer cool down causes more gunking. It makes sense that there is no air flow to pull whatever juice is being heated off the coil after you stop taking your draw, so it just sits there and cooks for a second. However, I would like to challenge you a bit. Some time back - months now - I started taking an extra second or so on my draws after releasing the fire button. I did this because I would notice vapor coming out of the drip tip or air holes and thought why not keep on pulling on it after the hit so as not to "waste" vapor. It quickly became a habit I do to this day. Atomizers started lasting longer but I never really realized why until reading this thread. So if you do another 28/29 ga comparison, try that method on the 28 ga and see if what I'm saying pans out

I do this too. It reduced the burnt juice snail trails, but did not completely get rid of them for me. The KFL is particularly affected by Vaping technique.

sent via Droid Mini

 

[JimmyDB]

Here's the method:

http://youtu.be/sVS37CCogK8

And since we're starting a new thread about the next big thing, let's include this about battery safety, calculating amps / watts and making sure that your build is within the safe limits of your battery

http://youtu.be/QQbWVHSiltQ

Interesting... this is what I built a little while back... from scrap.

 

[MacTechVpr]

This repeats my most recent entry on the origin thread for the Tensioned Micro Coil…How to simply make a contact micro coil…get tensioned! I thought the post would make a good segue to the continuing theme here. And for those landing here a good reference for the background, underlying theory and mechanics which will help translate tension wound coils to more advanced devices. Sorry for the cross-post.


I guess the best advice that I could give you all is to follow super_X_drifter's model of discovery when he first set out to investigate the potential of micro coils. If you read back on ECF to the Winter/Spring of last year most everyone had come to the realization that loose irregular spaced winds were not contributing the efficiency or performance that was hoped to be attainable. SxD set out to improve the symmetry and started small and close. As tightness and geometry were optimized performance improved so he was encouraged to get turns closer. Eventually a little bit too much coherence and these coils were incidentally touching or virtually in contact. But close contact wasn't exactly best performance as some were noting the heat effects of shorting, like a bad terminal connection. This fostered a conundrum of discussion on whether it was possible, would work or have any benefit at all as the technology expanded across the vaping universe. Ultimately and thankfully SxD said what the heck and the contact coil was born…

What followed was the evolution of tension that has spawned here. To look back is to see that it's a process so...

What prompted me to try this coil was surface area from a hydrology standpoint.

Take baby steps! Follow the slow but certain path of discovery for yourself.

Tension or strain will allow you make a coil with turns that are as proximately close as nature will allow. It is that point in physics that opens the magic window to performance. This level of tightness I've defined in layman's terms as adhesion. To say tight is inadequate to describe it. So it's a measure of tightness. A point on the scale of tightness that we're seeking.

So we start out as we would in a new car…slowly and attentively gauging it's performance as we go.

Starting with the first wind, begin with as taught a wrap as you feel may make good contact in the first few turns. It likely will not as we're still forming until actual strain is imparted into the wire. However, it doesn't matter that the first few or more may end up less than perfect. Proceed until successive turns appear to be in close contact. Every few turns, 2 or 3, stop. Examine the coil. See if they unwrap. Look for minute spaces between the turns. If they're clearly visible, you have not reached adhesion.

There is no right or wrong here. It's a matter of training your muscle memory. If you have to follow this process through several winds it's not uncommon. I've trained many folks who find the spot their very first wind. I did rather quickly the first time I found it. Then it took me several weeks to gain consistency. Each one of us has our own physical learning curve.

What I should most emphasize is to wind deliberately and as consistently as possible both in rotating the mandrel and the tension applied. That is the goal, to repeat that experience every time.

But adhesion is not merely a matter of the physical attributes of the product. The objective is actually function. What does it do for our vape? Making this physical and intellectual connection is a very important part of the process of creating a t.m.c. The latter being to train your mind to distinguish the variety in the result. To remain observant.

No need to spell out the result here because it's been talked about endlessly. You will come to know it fondly and intimately. In doing so you will tighten up…not the coil…but the precise point in your mind where winding beyond the threshold of adhesion produces the best result for you. It is the mind body connection I often kid about…be the coil.

Tensioned micro's can be tightened to some amazing levels of heat production. But there is a point of diminishing returns where the energy added to the wire is excessive. A host of negatives may ensue but generally the opposite of the efficiency effects we're looking for, essentially richness of vapor and flavor.

Taking the baby steps upwards across the line of adhesion will with a bit of experience help you isolate the zone that stabilizes your vape. In the process you will discover what variations bring to the table…and also take away.

Best of luck to you all…and get tensioned!

Happy Holidays.

 

[bsidb]

Nice.......

 

[super_X_drifter]

I'll have to say you're probably spot on with the premise that the longer cool down causes more gunking. It makes sense that there is no air flow to pull whatever juice is being heated off the coil after you stop taking your draw, so it just sits there and cooks for a second. However, I would like to challenge you a bit. Some time back - months now - I started taking an extra second or so on my draws after releasing the fire button. I did this because I would notice vapor coming out of the drip tip or air holes and thought why not keep on pulling on it after the hit so as not to "waste" vapor. It quickly became a habit I do to this day. Atomizers started lasting longer but I never really realized why until reading this thread. So if you do another 28/29 ga comparison, try that method on the 28 ga and see if what I'm saying pans out

You are 100% correct and I believe the same happens when one "pulls out" of a hit. I just can't remember to do it consistently