The end of microcoils?
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Of course the same applies to grade 1 titanium.
Titanium Scares me.
For No Other Reason then the Swing Arm on a Bike I was riding Broke. And it was Made from 6AL4V.
But that is Another Story.
I'm confident you should't use any alloy with vanadium in it for vaping.
After reading this entire series of posts, I will change my methods of coil building. I will dry burn but in a darkened room so that I can detect color changes more readily, thus keeping the temperature lower. I will use a spaced coil, again with the goal being temperature reduction. I will dry burn to clean but will not rapidly cool them with water and, again, in low light in the attempt to keep the temperature low. It appears that many of the potential problems arise out of stressing metal using higher temperatures.
Have I taken away from this discussion anything of value or have I totally missed the point?
Have I taken away from this discussion anything of value or have I totally missed the point?
Pick me, pick me!
Anecdotal. I know of one DNA 40 beta tester who was allergic to nickel. She had to wear gloves to build coils but had no problem vaping with nickel coils.
Don't shoot! I haven't witnessed it myself--just followed a conversation on the subject.
No. I have no scientific data, but I have seen people post here that even though they have a nickel allergy, vaping nickel has no effect on them. This, obviously, would imply that no nickel is leeching into the vapor (or at least such small amounts as to be inconsequential to an allergy).
And Evolv probably wouldn't have utilized nickel in the DNA-40 if they thought they might have a potential lawsuit on their hands. I am pretty sure they did their homework (experiments and all) in regard to this topic, though I am sure they would probably still warn "do this at your own risk."
That said, some people do claim they get a metallic taste from nickel coils which might imply something.
I have no idea what I'm going to do--other than not heating my coils beyond red glow--I take it closer to orange/red. I use non-annealed kanthal... Should I anneal it? Pulse the coil? Throw it away?
I wouldn't say 'evidence', I would say 'cause for further investigation'. Definitely there should be research. I suspect Dr. F was referring to the NiChrome wire that most stock coils come with, he was talking about nickel, which isn't in Kanthal, but I'm just guessing. Hopefully Dr. F will be more forthcoming in the near future because I think he kicked up a bit of a s..t storm with his comments.
I guess someone should go tell Temco they shouldnt be advertising Kanthal for use in things like furnaces, space heaters and dishwashers then.. Wait does this mean I just got out of doing dishes now??
yeah there you go, 'cause for further investigation' sounds better, I was just looking for a single word but couldnt think of it. That phrase sounds better to what I was thinking.
Dr Farsalinos has an academic research fellowship at the Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center. Research is his job, not something he does in his free time. He has been doing research on e-cigarettes for years.
You might want to learn how to do a little research yourself.
Hi Katya !
I realize that I've linked you to a cosmetics website, but I think the studies mentioned and cited in the article are worth looking at. One of the studies mentioned ( Lee, Trochimowicz & Reinhardt, "Pulmonary Response of Rats Exposed to Titanium Dioxide by Inhalation for Two Years" (1985)) involved "rats chronically exposed to excessive dust loading". In contrast to the results shown in rats, the study by Warwhit (2004) involving mice and dogs showed no tumor expression (hence my joke better to be a mouse!). Reading further, disease was noted in some who handled TD on an industrial level. But that begs the question, are vapers anywhere near the equivalent to an 'industrial level' of exposure? What seems important in the long run is the particle size, then a safe level of exposure can be guestimated.
Thanks. As always, the dose makes the poison...
That makes sense to me. Thanks Mick! I get that iron for example is an element. But with kanthal, at least from wikipedia explaination, its an iron-chromium-aluminium (FeCrAl) alloy. Wouldn't that mean it's made up from molecules?
I think I put more weight on the scientific investigation of someone like Dr. F that has done hundreds of hours collecting and analyzing data on this subject than the people on this forum that have only watched a short video regarding some of Dr F's conclusions. I haven't seen anyone hear reference the actual data collected, much less refute the findings in the actual data. I also question the validity of many who speak as experts without verifying their academic pedigrees that would give me reason to accept the veracity of their statements.
I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, but I do tend to give more weight to the entities that have done the work and developed the data to support a claim being made. I also believe if Dr F were going to skew data in any direction (which I don't believe he is doing), he would do in a direction that would show vaping in the best light possible. The fact that he has come to the conclusion that there may be some inherent dangers in the way we vape make me think very strongly that there could indeed be an issue we need to be concerned with.
I'll reserve judgment for the time being, but I really haven't seen a single credible argument in this thread that leads me to believe Dr F's concerns are not warranted.
I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, but I do tend to give more weight to the entities that have done the work and developed the data to support a claim being made. I also believe if Dr F were going to skew data in any direction (which I don't believe he is doing), he would do in a direction that would show vaping in the best light possible. The fact that he has come to the conclusion that there may be some inherent dangers in the way we vape make me think very strongly that there could indeed be an issue we need to be concerned with.
I'll reserve judgment for the time being, but I really haven't seen a single credible argument in this thread that leads me to believe Dr F's concerns are not warranted.
I don't know. Are you aware of the existence of any data on the subject? Any research Dr. F has done on the wires? This has already been discussed in the thread earlier--nobody has seen any data and Dr. Farsalinos hasn't presented any that we know of.
You accused us of "not referencing any data collected," hence my question. Where is that data we should be referencing or the findings we should be refuting?
I didn't accuse you of anything Katya, I said none of the arguments referenced the data of the study that the conclusions were based on. I apologize if I didn't make that perfectly clear to you. Refuting the conclusions without seeing the data and scientific process behind the data gathering is just bluster and blather, not real arguments. So either you believe this was a made up study done by Dr F, or you haven't found (or looked) for any data related to a study done, or you don't have the patience to wait until data is released to have an intelligent conversation.
If you accept a study was done, then it would follow that there was data gathered and a process followed. Until that data is analyzed and accepted or intelligently refuted I just don't see the point of arguing the study. I also made it very clear that I choose to believe the entity that did the work of the study until there is a basis to refute the data.
I also stated this as my opinion. If you don't agree... then don't. I really could care less, it's still my opinion.
What study are you referring to? That is the problem here, not that anyone doesn't trust his work, but the fact that he's making alarming statements without providing anything to back it up. If he had said: "I've started a project and the preliminary results are telling me that we should never dry burn a coil." That would be very different, and we would all be eagerly awaiting him making his data available.
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