@Bill's Magic Vapor so great to see you! Wishing you the best of luck in your endeavor, and hope you can visit again soon. You are an inspiration to so many, including me.
The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread
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Yes, crazy, busy year for me. So happy to see the thread alive and well, with many old friends still around, and participating. I miss this place too, ghola1was!
Funny to see the same old arguments and debates. I've found what works for me, and get quite excited when others discover the methods that work for them. That's really what it's all about. That being said, my predilection for HFM was quite an uphill battle for several years. At least now, it's acknowledged as a legitimate method! So cool!
Because of compulsion issues, I'm kind of an all or nothing kind of guy. I was just as hooked on this thread for the longest time, as I was on smoking. For more than a year, I've been working on building a plant in the NW part of the U.S. that converts farm and dairy wastes to energy. We are breaking ground in two months on the largest facility of its type in North America. This has been exhausting, and I wasn't able to get online here, as I can be on here for days at a time, as many of you are! Nevertheless, I check in every few months, and am so encouraged by all the progress that you are making on mixing and vaping. Keep up the great work and I hope to see you again in a few months. I am committed to working too hard, for too long, for too little for the next two years, but then I'm done with working, and, maybe, I can participate some more on this most wonderful thread, and check out what's going on elsewhere on the site. Please keep encouraging our new mixers and let them in on our hard won educations in mixology! All the best!
It's great to see you here Bill. Thanks for all of your help!
Hi, Bill! Great to hear from you! 2 years & then a well deserved retirement! Yaaaayyyy!Yes, crazy, busy year for me. So happy to see the thread alive and well, with many old friends still around, and participating. I miss this place too, ghola1was!
Funny to see the same old arguments and debates. I've found what works for me, and get quite excited when others discover the methods that work for them. That's really what it's all about. That being said, my predilection for HFM was quite an uphill battle for several years. At least now, it's acknowledged as a legitimate method! So cool!
Because of compulsion issues, I'm kind of an all or nothing kind of guy. I was just as hooked on this thread for the longest time, as I was on smoking. For more than a year, I've been working on building a plant in the NW part of the U.S. that converts farm and dairy wastes to energy. We are breaking ground in two months on the largest facility of its type in North America. This has been exhausting, and I wasn't able to get online here, as I can be on here for days at a time, as many of you are! Nevertheless, I check in every few months, and am so encouraged by all the progress that you are making on mixing and vaping. Keep up the great work and I hope to see you again in a few months. I am committed to working too hard, for too long, for too little for the next two years, but then I'm done with working, and, maybe, I can participate some more on this most wonderful thread, and check out what's going on elsewhere on the site. Please keep encouraging our new mixers and let them in on our hard won educations in mixology! All the best!
Yup, we're still here debating the different techniques ... thanks for dropping in.
Looking forward to when you able to spend more time with us again
Looking forward to when you able to spend more time with us again
And such is the beauty of DIY. As long as it works for you and you are happy with the results then you are doing it the right way. Cheers!
Same with Bill's high flavor % technique, works for him. Personally, I try to keep my flavorings and add ons to 20% or less. The science is still out on vaping flavors, so you just have to decide what's comfortable for you. I wish I was the type that enjoyed just a VG-PG-NIC plain juice, but I'm not.
I also find a huge "better" flavor difference when my DIY juices are steeped. For me, I find no reason to test Vape a fresh mix, as at least with my recipes so far, they are not vapable when just mixed, and hence give me no valuable feedback on the taste the mix will be in a day, or better yet a week.
So far in the my beginning of my DIY experience, I've been making small (30 ml or smaller) batches, dividing the batch in half, then letting one sample sit in the cabinet, shaken now and then, and speed steeping the 2nd batch for 2 hours at 120f in a small industrial ultrasonic cleaner. I'm still testing back and forth with the separate batches in various devices.
That's the other VARIABLE that doesn't get discussed a lot. In general you get more flavor in these devices in this order:
RDA (rebuildable dripping atomizers)
Squonk mods with bottom fed RDA's
RTA (rebuilable tank atomizers)
Subohm Tanks with the endless amounts of prebuilt coils.
My juices have different levels of taste and strength of flavor in all the choices above.
And then you can add the other variables like wire types, wicking materials, high/low wattage, TC settings, etc. The great news with DIY is you can adjust and make your juices custom, for the target device in mind! For example, going with more flavor for a juice you like already, but plan to vape in a tank with the normally less flavorful prebuilt coil heads.
One of the wonderful things about Diy, and vaping in general too, is that because we a dynamic creatures (ever changing). we can change our vaping and DIY experience to suit our current desires.
When I first started vaping I had to have flavor in my juice. Then one day, due to a severe case of vaper's tongue and laziness (I couldn't decide what I was in the mood to mix and therefore ran out of anything that was ready to vape), I made a small batch of of plain base just to get me by. I won't say that it is anything I "crave" but it was pleasantly satisfying.
Now, I tend to vape 2 or 3 tanks of unflavored and 1/2 to 1 tank of flavored per day. I find that when I do vape flavored e-liquid i enjoy it more, require less flavoring, the unflavored tank that follows will carry the flavor over, and the vaper's tongue happens with much less frequency.
I always do at least a test vape of every fresh mix right after a vigorous shake. I want a baseline for comparison.
I mix a little of everything: deserts, bakeries, fruits, beverages, even a few tobaccos. I want to know what is shake-n-vape, what needs a day, a week, or a month. I also look for patterns and similarities. Are the same ingredients showing up in the "one-monthers?" What about the S&Vs? It helps me understand and direct my future creations as well as giving me an idea how the recipes I collect might behave. Also, because I still remain a lazy mixer to this day
, I don't necessarily have to leave that custard, or tobacco, in the cupboard for a full month.Perfect example of the scientific method!
Do you have any general opinions from your research so far? Not the gear part so much; but the two blending/aging methods? Specifically; have you noticed any loss/sacrifice in taste (esp. loss of high notes) through the use of heat and/or u.c.? My taste buds are getting better but I am not sure I can detect a difference yet. I think I can but I don't know it is just in my head.
Ditto on the percentages. I mix everything below 20%
If I can't taste it at 18-20% tops, I'll PIF
These are the two I use daily, and there is a big difference (using the same juice) in the flavor between the two
Squonk mods with bottom fed RDA's
RTA (rebuilable tank atomizers)
Well, ..
, For me, I find most fruits are basically shake n vape ... combo recipes usually sit for a couple of weeks, and tobacco's I leave for a month.There are exceptions to each, but my way of solving it, is to stay way ahead of myself. That way I don't have to worry about it.
I have more bottles than I can vape in a month made up ... so they automatically sit around for a month or so before I get to them.
There's no way I have an ADV ... I have 8 mods sitting around the house in strategic places .. each with a different flavor, and when they get refilled, it will be with another flavor yet ... I also only mix up about 6ml of each flavor.
A 30ml bottle would last me 2 years
I like variety
A couple of my current recipes I'm liking better fresh made so I've just been mixing 10ml at a time. I keep four recipes in my daily rotation. I don't go through a lot of liquid on a daily basis so the smaller batches last a decent amount of time. I have gone through about half of my very first bottle of ry4 double so am thinking that it might be time to get in an order.
Question: I used to mix @ 12% nic to use in MTL atties with around 1 ohm resistance. Recently I started to mix at 3% as well mainly for higher temperature, lower ohms, and DLH or restricted DLH vaping. I noticed that the 12% liquid tastes better as in more flavorful, it even smells better when you open the cap. Does anybody have an explanation for this?
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I wish I could help. I never mix that low. I've just recently started coming down some from the 24-32mg range. I'm not sure if it's because I haven't had it in a couple months or not but I mixed one of my favorite recipes at 12mg instead of my usual 24mg and it seemed to have more flavor.
Explanation, ummm no not really. But it does appear to show just how nic plays a part in the overall flavor result. Interesting, as I too have recently went from 12mg to 3mg., but what I have done since I already had my flavors mixed at the higher strength was to basically cut them in half and added pg/vg. On most of them there was no need to add additional flavoring because they tasted fine. I thought that was interesting also because I thought the flavor would be muted but it was not. umm I guess both cases are telling us something. LOL
Hmm interesting story. To me higher nic concentrations seemed to mute or numb my taste perceptions and leave me with a peppery feeling in my mouth.
It could be that your nic has a slight flavor that you are sensitive to and it adds a perceived increase in flavor. ??
Thought I'd start a discussion on:
"HOW LONG DO YOUR DIY MIXES STAY FLAVORFUL?"
BACKGROUND:
As many of you know I'm fairly new to DIY. It may be my imagination, but my impression was that large company store bought juices "seemed" to last longer, meaning held their flavor profile for a longer time period, 4-6 months is a guess. We don't really know all the ingredients since companies have not been required to list them, but I doubt they use any preservatives. Sure I've had some oxidize, get real dark, sooner then others, and the oxygen over time did weaken the flavors. I know the nicotine when oxidized over time will darken the juice as well. Since I started DIY, most of my store bought juices have just sat in their bottles for many months. I've revisited them now and then, and most have lost a lot of their original flavor, but my DIY juices seem to loose flavors more quickly.
Now while I use an ultrasonic cleaner to speed steep, I keep one half of the batch in glass bottles in the cabinet to time steep for a week or two. In a day or two I begin vaping the speed steeped juice. I have yet to form a real world opinion if my speed steeped juice tastes the same as a two week time steep. I've come to accept that speed steeping is actually like adding another ingredient to a recipe, which changes it slightly from the original, which could be good or bad. In most cases this is from the addition of HEAT.
So I have also come to believe like many, that time steeping is still the standard way to meld the flavors, and judge the recipe. Of course that means that one has to determine how long before the time steeping hits it's PEAK FLAVOR PROFILE. Let's say by tasting you decide two weeks is best for your recipe. Then logically any additional time that juice sits, it's still steeping. At some point in time, or slowly over time, the juice gets less flavorful. Once again I'm assuming its oxidation. Now if you vape most of your mixes quickly, then flavor dissipation would not effect you.
So I'm wondering for those that make large quantity batches or lots of different recipes where some may sit for 1-2 months or longer, have you found the overall flavors greatly dissipating over time? Perhaps faster then major brand store bought juices?
"HOW LONG DO YOUR DIY MIXES STAY FLAVORFUL?"
BACKGROUND:
As many of you know I'm fairly new to DIY. It may be my imagination, but my impression was that large company store bought juices "seemed" to last longer, meaning held their flavor profile for a longer time period, 4-6 months is a guess. We don't really know all the ingredients since companies have not been required to list them, but I doubt they use any preservatives. Sure I've had some oxidize, get real dark, sooner then others, and the oxygen over time did weaken the flavors. I know the nicotine when oxidized over time will darken the juice as well. Since I started DIY, most of my store bought juices have just sat in their bottles for many months. I've revisited them now and then, and most have lost a lot of their original flavor, but my DIY juices seem to loose flavors more quickly.
Now while I use an ultrasonic cleaner to speed steep, I keep one half of the batch in glass bottles in the cabinet to time steep for a week or two. In a day or two I begin vaping the speed steeped juice. I have yet to form a real world opinion if my speed steeped juice tastes the same as a two week time steep. I've come to accept that speed steeping is actually like adding another ingredient to a recipe, which changes it slightly from the original, which could be good or bad. In most cases this is from the addition of HEAT.
So I have also come to believe like many, that time steeping is still the standard way to meld the flavors, and judge the recipe. Of course that means that one has to determine how long before the time steeping hits it's PEAK FLAVOR PROFILE. Let's say by tasting you decide two weeks is best for your recipe. Then logically any additional time that juice sits, it's still steeping. At some point in time, or slowly over time, the juice gets less flavorful. Once again I'm assuming its oxidation. Now if you vape most of your mixes quickly, then flavor dissipation would not effect you.
So I'm wondering for those that make large quantity batches or lots of different recipes where some may sit for 1-2 months or longer, have you found the overall flavors greatly dissipating over time? Perhaps faster then major brand store bought juices?
I have been mostly been mixing small batches but I do remember Bill saying that a drop or two of citric acid per 10ml will help to keep recipes from changing flavor over time. The biggest I usually mix at a time is 30ml. It's a lemonade recipe from the dropbox and one bottle will last me several weeks. I haven't noticed any flavor change in that one.
I've read a bit about citric acid, will have to do some homework, but I'm trying to keep my ingredients to a minimal.
I don't expect too much change in flavors in a few weeks, but I'm interested in any DIY'ers that have juices stored for a month or longer and if they see/taste any consistent flavor loss, and if they noticed the same behavior in similar time periods with big brand store juices.
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