The good good fashioned switch-a-roo played in Utah

[r055co]

r055co, could you name me one country that doesn't, at the very minimum, require the originating country's passport plus destination country's visa for permanent residence and some kind of permanent employment permit? (Other than the United States under the Obama administration, of course. )

Except for getting the U.S. passports (which are cheap: $80 each — plus $60 expediting fee if you want to get them sometime this year), those other two are quite uncertain, even if the destination country is Canada.

Dodd-Frank is a huge impediment if you want to get any kind of loan in the destination country. My sister and brother-in-law have a combined income of about C$650,000. They live in Edmonton, AB. Both are dual citizens. But when they wanted to get a mortgage with a 70% down-payment, all of the Canadian banks turned them down. They had to finance their new house with a non-secured personal loan of $450,000 for 12%.

You don't need to be Peruvian to buy land in Peru. You can easily buy land there and retire plus work odd jobs or open a business.

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[Hulamoon]

I'm more inclined to look at Utah's ban as an expression of the majority religion in the state. Remember, around 60% of the state is Mormon, a strong majority of the population. So, the rest of the state has to go along with what the majority in Utah wants ("When in Rome . . . ").

Mormons believe God has spoken against the use of tobacco, alcohol, coffee and tea (i.e. caffeine, a component of those two beverages) and illegal drugs. There have always been strictures in Utah on the use of these substances. And now they've added e-cigarettes (which use nicotine, a component of tobacco leaves) to the no-no list.

I assume non-Mormons in Utah have learned to live with these strictures and, if they want to continue to live there, extensions of these strictures. Those who can't have left.

I see it as a states' rights issue.

That's fair enough ….unless they're collecting taxes on them or otherwise outright banning those other looked down upon substances, in which case, it's hypocrisy.
Freedom of religion only allows one to worship the way they want without punishment. QED, for the rest of us, that means that WE are free from being a target of their religion.
But I take your point, if you want to live in Utah, well……..

 

[mostlyclassics]

You don't need to be Peruvian to buy land in Peru. You can easily buy land there and retire plus work odd jobs or open a business.

Is the country free-entry? I think not: last time I checked, you needed another country's passport plus the destination country's visa to enter Peru. That's almost a global universal. I'll bet you also need some kind of a permit to work at anything better than a bracero job. Finally, good luck opening a business without filing for all kinds of licenses and permits. Yes, it's the same way in the U.S., but most countries do check your citizenship and can (and do!) bar you from setting up a business if you're not a citizen or landed immigrant or similar.

That's fair enough ….unless they're collecting taxes on them or otherwise outright banning those other looked down upon substances, in which case, it's hypocrisy.

I'd say whether they collect taxes or whatever is entirely up to them. I'm not saying the Mormons do collect taxes on substances with which they disagree on religious grounds, I'm just bringing it up as a hypothetical. And I can easliy imagine a religion which did so. If that's the case, then where's the hypocrisy, except in an outsider's mind? It's their state, and it's their business.

 

[Hulamoon]

Is the country free-entry? I think not: last time I checked, you needed another country's passport plus the destination country's visa to enter Peru. That's almost a global universal. I'll bet you also need some kind of a permit to work at anything better than a bracero job. Finally, good luck opening a business without filing for all kinds of licenses and permits. Yes, it's the same way in the U.S., but most countries do check your citizenship and can (and do!) bar you from setting up a business if you're not a citizen or landed immigrant or similar.



I'd say whether they collect taxes or whatever is entirely up to them. I'm not saying the Mormons do collect taxes on substances with which they disagree on religious grounds, I'm just bringing it up as a hypothetical. And I can easliy imagine a religion which did so. If that's the case, then where's the hypocrisy, except in an outsider's mind? It's their state, and it's their business.

Ummmm....no. It is NOT "their" State. They may populate it. They didn't purchase it.

 

[DC2]

Ummmm....no. It is NOT "their" State. They may populate it. They didn't purchase it.

It kinda is "their" state given "they" have been voted into power.
If people there don't like they way things are going it's up to them to vote "them" out.
:shrug:

 

[Verb]

It would be great fun to overrun Utah with heathens just to elect a bunch of non believers and change some of the social restrictions. Too bad there's not enough well paying jobs there to support that many folks with heathen lifestyles.

 

[mostlyclassics]

Verb, it'd take one hellaciously large mob of heathens!

Utah is about 60% LDS, and the population is right around 3,000,000.

So, you're going to need over 100,000 heathens just to get the population of Mormons down to minority status.

Good luck!

 

[nelsonm64]

come on up guys! the Canadian government is going easy on us

I can see the headline now, "10 million vapers crash Canadian border!"

 

[englishmick]

come on up guys! the Canadian government is going easy on us

I can see the headline now, "10 million vapers crash Canadian border!"

I hope you guys wouldn't build a huge wall and make us pay for it.

 

[nelsonm64]

I hope you guys wouldn't build a huge wall and make us pay for it.

hahaha, no kidding huh. to funny!

 

[rothenbj]

With all due respect, Robert Cromwell, I see a qualitative difference between changing states and changing countries.

If you more from one state to another, all you do is chuck the wife, the kiddies, your possessions and the cat into a U-Haul and move from, say, Utah to Montana. Once in Montana, you can look for work. No government paperwork, no bonds, no nothing.

On the other hand, if you change countries,,,,,

So, yeah, I see a fundamental difference between changing states and changing countries.

I thought all you needed to do is sneak into the destination country and get free healthcare and bennies from the government.

 

[Hulamoon]

It kinda is "their" state given "they" have been voted into power.
If people there don't like they way things are going it's up to them to vote "them" out.
:shrug:

Yes, I agree with that, it was the phrasing that I disagreed with.

 

[Hulamoon]

Verb, it'd take one hellaciously large mob of heathens!

Utah is about 60% LDS, and the population is right around 3,000,000.

So, you're going to need over 100,000 heathens just to get the population of Mormons down to minority status.

Good luck!

Have them join the EU. I guarantee you'll have 500,000 in a month. lol

 

[r055co]

Is the country free-entry? I think not: last time I checked, you needed another country's passport plus the destination country's visa to enter Peru. That's almost a global universal. I'll bet you also need some kind of a permit to work at anything better than a bracero job. Finally, good luck opening a business without filing for all kinds of licenses and permits. Yes, it's the same way in the U.S., but most countries do check your citizenship and can (and do!) bar you from setting up a business if you're not a citizen or landed immigrant or similar.

Aah you need a Passport to even leave the US and you get a Visa when you enter Peru. To open a business there is easier than getting the licenses and permits than what it is here in any State. Taxes are much less than what they are here. Example friends of mine there have an acre with six homes they rent to tourists, the property taxes are less than 10k a year. Another friend and her brother own an acre, each have a house on it they live in. Their property taxes are less than average $40 a year. Peru doesn't rape you yearly on taxes, but they do have a significant capital gains tax when you sell. Thus they don't have speculative buying, their tax system encourages long term investment and benefits people who buy to live. I know a few expats there that have moved and opened businesses there or started working, it's not difficult.


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[Myrany]

come on up guys! the Canadian government is going easy on us

I can see the headline now, "10 million vapers crash Canadian border!"

I actually seriously considered immigrating to Canada a few years ago and looked into it. It is nearly impossible even though my parents were born in Canada and I have family there. You have some tough immigration laws.

 

[nelsonm64]

I actually seriously considered immigrating to Canada a few years ago and looked into it. It is nearly impossible even though my parents were born in Canada and I have family there. You have some tough immigration laws.

really... funny, a few years ago I wanted to immigrate to the US, my dad is American. or was, he since passed. no green card for me! i'm surprised with both your parents being born in Canada that they'd deny you. I would have thought you would qualify for dual citizenship ...in my case i'll have to settle for my 2 months in so-cal every winter, that'll have to do until retirement

 

[retired1]

Let's get things back on track, please. If you want to discuss immigration issues, take it Outside.

 

[Myrany]

Edit sorry Retired I answered before I saw your post. Deleted it

 

[Yiana]

Robert Cromwell, there is a fundamental difference.

Utah is just one of 50 states. Draconian legislation can be answered by people voting with their feet and leaving. That's why, over the last 50 years, Chicago has shrunk by more than a million people and Illinois has lost eight congressmen. People voted with their feet and moved to states that were more congenial. When my wife retires, we'll be moving to another state, in large part to get away from the downright Nicaraguan level of corruption in Illinois (though that statement may insult Nicaraguans by this point).

By contrast, the FDA Deeming Regulations affect everyone in the whole country, in every little corner of it. Emigration, a much scarier and more uncertain and expensive process, is the only option for people who want to vote with their feet.

Exactly why I moved from Illinois to a freedom loving state Tennessee about a year and a half year ago. We had a couple governors go to prison after their terms, talk about corruption. Illinois taxed to death and bankrupt at that.