The health risk/benefits of e-cigs by Yaniv riz/MD

[DaveP]

While it's true that some people who quit cigarettes and turn to vaping will experience little improvement if the damage from tobacco is already done, that doesn't mean vaping is the cause. Chances are it will irritate lungs with previous damage and some will experience shortness of breath, being on the edge already.

We all experienced the side effects of smoking for years. Hopefully, our lungs will recover and return to a more normal state. If that doesn't happen for you, then vaping isn't a good idea. Clean air is best for you.

Truth is, vaping is a good way to shift from a seriously damaging product to one that is, at worst, less damaging. Vaping for most of us will keep us off tobacco and allow us to taper down to 0 nic. That's the best feature of the PV. You don't have to be nic addicted for the rest of your life. Some of us will use it and outgrow it, finding that we need nothing containing nic anymore.

 

[Lydia]

Hi Bones,
Thanks for yr answering. I am certainly not the only one with “luck”, a lot of COPD-ers are doing very well on vaping. This is not because of a luck-chance. The real luck is that I have over 2 years of test results, starting almost exactly from point quitting smoking and starting vaping.

You know you have COPD and this brings a specific condition that can make it necessary to make some specific adjustments, done by you. No one can assure you vaping is without risks. This means you must also be able to tolerate some uncertainty. Beyond that you must invest time in getting the best and safest vaping stuff for your specific condition and that can mean shopping all over the world, on line, and last but not least... read a lot about it to become good informed if you do not have a MD as Yaniv Riz at hand for suport. If this all is nothing for you, this puts you off, or isn’t worth the effort, don’t vape, or wait a few years with it. It probably will come in easier ways in future, but it needs time.

If you buy ready made e-liquid, that means in general you have no control over the used flavours, the flavour concentration and the used PG/VG in the mix. For me that’s a risk I’m not daring to take in my condition. The only way to control my e-liquid it is to make my own e-liquid, or buy the ready made mix safe for me at only a few places in the world. DIY favourless is easy, there are good suppliers and good stuff is available and easy to find if you do some searching here. You can PM me for further advice if you want. For flavoured DIY-mixes I can assure you there are DIY-flavours available that are tested in vapour (50 % PG, 40% VG) on cytotoxicity towards fibroblasts (cells of the respiratory epithelia) and tested as non-cytotoxic. Some are also tested by a chirurg, specialized in allergology and immunology on blood cells (monocytes/macrophages) to the pro-sensitising effect of some of these non-cytotoxic flavours. I am doing well on them and they are yet the most safe ones for me, I believe. Beyond that, they can taste nice, even in low concentrations.

For the safety of PG, see an overview of study’s etc here: National Vapers Club - Meeting Place for lovers of e-cigarettes, personal vaporizers and all things "fog" producing!
You will see that f.e. the United States Evironmental Protection Agency (EPA) concluded in 2007 not to be concerned about oral, dermal, or inhalation exposure to propylene glycol. Also that PG is used for air treatment in hospitals. If you search further you find also recent study’s, fe : Evaluation of Lung Tolerance of Ethanol, Propylene Glycol, and Sorbitan Monooleate as Solvents in Medical Aerosols | Abstract
Or see the conclusion in a study out of 2007 on the safety of Cyclosporine (in PG) inhalation for patiënts after lung transplantation: “There were no respiratory or systemic effects of high doses of propylene glycol relative to air controls. These preclinical studies demonstrate the safety of aerosolized cyclosporine in propylene glycol and support its continued clinical investigation in patients undergoing allogeneic lung transplantation” You can find the study here: Preclinical Safety Evaluation of Inhaled Cyclosporine in Propylene Glycol | Abstract These I could did find within a short Google search. I think if I did a long search I could find a lot more “fresh ones”.

Uhm, what’s wrong with study’s on mice out of 1940? Do you think mice living in 2012 will react different on PG as the mice living in 1940? That’s not logical, lol.

 

[Maile]

My brother and I have been vapeing for 9 weeks. We completely quit analogs day 1. Yesterday my brother lost his voice and has a terrible sore throat and we are wondering if it could be vape related. Anyone experience this? Also we both suddenly have acne. We are thirty somethings and I never had acne like this even as a teen. Is this normal? Will it go away? Any thoughts are appreciated!

 

[simply me]

My brother and I have been vapeing for 9 weeks. We completely quit analogs day 1. Yesterday my brother lost his voice and has a terrible sore throat and we are wondering if it could be vape related. Anyone experience this? Also we both suddenly have acne. We are thirty somethings and I never had acne like this even as a teen. Is this normal? Will it go away? Any thoughts are appreciated!

Maile I also lost my voice and had a bad sore throat for about 2 weeks. I also used the patch once to stop smoking for about 2 months and also lost my voice for 3 weeks. It is like Yanivriz explained the cilia which are tiny hairs we have in our throat. When we smoke they lay down, when we quit they start standing up which iratate our throat. It will go away. Try to drink alot of water for awhile. Also try some juice with a little more vg, it's not as harsh as pg. But is will go away, so happy vaping.

Ok just saw the acne. Acne is caused from the toxins leaving the body. It to will clear up. You don't want them bad toxins anyway.

 

[slojas]

For the safety of PG, see an overview of study’s etc here: National Vapers Club - Meeting Place for lovers of e-cigarettes, personal vaporizers and all things "fog" producing!
You will see that f.e. the United States Evironmental Protection Agency (EPA) concluded in 2007 not to be concerned about oral, dermal, or inhalation exposure to propylene glycol. Also that PG is used for air treatment in hospitals. If you search further you find also recent study’s, fe : Evaluation of Lung Tolerance of Ethanol, Propylene Glycol, and Sorbitan Monooleate as Solvents in Medical Aerosols | Abstract
Or see the conclusion in a study out of 2007 on the safety of Cyclosporine (in PG) inhalation for patiënts after lung transplantation: “There were no respiratory or systemic effects of high doses of propylene glycol relative to air controls. These preclinical studies demonstrate the safety of aerosolized cyclosporine in propylene glycol and support its continued clinical investigation in patients undergoing allogeneic lung transplantation” You can find the study here: Preclinical Safety Evaluation of Inhaled Cyclosporine in Propylene Glycol | Abstract These I could did find within a short Google search. I think if I did a long search I could find a lot more “fresh ones”.
.

(Condensed for page space)
Thank you for this.

Maile
I had dry throat to start and the occasional bout still, just the PG doing what it does, an occasional salt water gargle, switch to Biotene toothpaste and increased liquid intake will offset the effects, I keep a bottled water with me at all possible times and a couple bottles beside the bed as thats when the dry mouth really seems to hit, it doesn't need to be special water, you can just refill with tap water.
The dry mouth can make you suseptable to canker sores on the tounge and gums, canker sores are bacterial ulcers like what you would find in a stomach ulcer.
Do not confuse Cankers with Cold sores wich occur outside the mouth and are caused by lesser strains of the Herpes virus, anything to keep the mouth moist and free of bacteria will help keep you free of canker sores, regular toothpaste containing the foaming agent Sodium Laureth Sufate should be avoided as the acidic nature of SLS can make you more suseptable to cankers due to the irritation of soft tissues in the mouth, Biotene toothepaste is clinically shown to reduce outbreaks of Cankers and improve soft tissue health in the mouth as it is free of SLS and contains enzymes to supliment the mouths own natural ones.

Pimples, my back and shoulders have exploded with them, I have been vaping since the last week of Febuary this year and these pimples started a little over a month ago, at first I blamed the e-cig juice but later read that it is not believed to be at fault so i gave some thought to it and remembered back to when I quit for 3 1/2 months on Zyban when my son was born.
At around 4 months old, me and the missus did some parent and tot swimming, pictures were taken at this time and they clearly show me with "quit zits" all over my shoulders and back at a time when I didn't even know e-cigs existed.

 

[martsumoto]

Excellent thread, Ive been reading similar stuff, yours is very concise. Thank you

 

[TTK]

Lydia, which non-cytotoxic flavours do you use and where do you get them?

 

[sarqb]

you should have stated more of the positive effects like memory aslo coffee has many health benefits

 

[DaveP]

My brother and I have been vapeing for 9 weeks. We completely quit analogs day 1. Yesterday my brother lost his voice and has a terrible sore throat and we are wondering if it could be vape related. Anyone experience this? Also we both suddenly have acne. We are thirty somethings and I never had acne like this even as a teen. Is this normal? Will it go away? Any thoughts are appreciated!

Dry throat is a side effect of vaping. PG and VG are both humectants that absorb water from the tissues they contact in the mouth and throat. Hydrate yourself and that will go away.

Acne is a side effect of quitting smoking.

"Acne after Quitting???": Smoking Cessation Community - Support Group

 

[rolygate]

@BonesK98K
Most people would agree with you that COPD sufferers should avoid further inhalation of anything foreign. They would probably be better off with Snus or something similar. However if the person cannot give up smoking but could tolerate the substitution of vaping, and death or vaping is the only choice, then perhaps we might look at how to reduce any possible side effects of vaping to a minimum for those with fragile lungs.

The first thing to be done is testing and trials, because we have no clinical trials of patients in this situation to refer to.

The sensible thing would be at first to trial unflavored liquids since many of the possible issues might be caused by poorly-tolerated flavourings. It is debatable whether PG or glycerine might be the best base material but my opinion (as a person with fragile lungs that react strongly to foreign materials) is that the ideal profile for such a base material is 95% glycerine, 5% PG. The reasoning behind this is complex, but put simply, glycerine (let's call it VG although that is inaccurate) is a preferable base for those with delicate lungs, and PG is a powerful bactericide and virucide that is unlikely to produce an intolerance response at 5% for most people and assists in the reduction of infection.

The major pharmaceutical firms that produce base carrier materials (aka excipients or solvents) for inhalable medicines have by and large moved to VG as a preferable material to PG. One example is Dow Chemical, and if you google 'optim' you can find their product. The statement that VG is an oil is, in essence, fallacious: chemically it is not although one could justifiably say it is by virtue of its viscosity when undiluted. Most importantly, VG will not accumulate in the lungs, and does not cause the symptoms associated with oil-induced morbidity such as is associated with lipoid pneumonia or 'paraffin lung' [1]. For our purposes the most accurate way to describe it might be 'a viscous liquid carbohydrate' [2].

Once a well-tolerated unflavoured base has been found, and no shortness of breath can be attributed directly to the use of the e-cigarette, a simple flavour could be added-in to see the effect. Such flavours might be considered to include some (but not all) types of caramel and menthol.

So if the choice is between smoking or vaping, then some tests and trials of different materials need to be carried out by the person affected. My own experience is that some apparently-innocent materials cannot be tolerated, and that the absolute highest quality materials available at any cost should probably be sought out.


[1] Under normal usage conditions with normal people. There is an argument that in certain cases of COPD, which has an increase of risk for pneumonia, much greater care needs to be taken. Stage 3 COPD is a serious lung disease with elevated risk of death, pneumonia being one cause. A patient with Stage 3 COPD needs to accept that inhalation of any foreign materials is likely to increase the risk of death substantially and there is no way to get around that issue. If a PG-based liquid cannot be tolerated (i.e. mainly PG), then it could probably be used at 5% in VG in order to help reduce risk of infection.

[2] Undiluted VG cannot be used successfully in an ecig. It requires about 20% dilution with DW, distilled water. If your VG is thick and gloopy it is undiluted and will probably not work well in all equipment. In this case, including 5% PG in the diluent seems a good idea.

 

[Clovery]

Just wanted to make a quick comment on something in the OP...

the flavoring additives might be dangerous, especially menthol, that has been know to almost double the risk of cancer in cigarettes.
this doesn't mean that vaping it would cause cancer, because a burning process is much different, and chemically altering than just vaping it, but still I personally would avoid it, and wouldn't conduct this experiment on my body.

From what I understand, menthol cigarettes increase the risk of cancer because the menthol has a numbing effect, allowing the smoker to inhale more deeply and hold the smoke longer. I'm not vouching for the safety of flavorings, but I don't think menthol is any more dangerous than other flavors. In fact, the Nicotrol Inhaler, which in the US is a prescription-only smoking cessation medication which is inhaled into the lungs (but not vaporized) contains menthol.

 

[jch419]

Thank you for the info!! Very fun to read.

 

[Paulette]

+1 JCH419 -- very interesting!

 

[Motoman101]

I have spoken to my doctor who says nicotine is not as additive as people think. Was told that 75 percent of the nictone leaves your body in 10 hours if you don't smoke and all nicotine leaves your system in 3 days. Is this true?? Was also told nicotine and caffeine are very similar and nicotine itself won't harm you. Did he give me misinformation??

 

[slojas]

I have spoken to my doctor who says nicotine is not as additive as people think. Was told that 75 percent of the nictone leaves your body in 10 hours if you don't smoke and all nicotine leaves your system in 3 days. Is this true?? Was also told nicotine and caffeine are very similar and nicotine itself won't harm you. Did he give me misinformation??

Nicotine and Caffeine are are basically the same, both stimulants and vasoconstrictors with addictive properties.

The Nicotine in cigarettes is different, it has been boosted with additives to strengthen its effect and replicate the effects of Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (Ammonia is an example of one of the additives used).


Following excerpt is from howstuffworks.com-
Nicotine has a half-life of about 60 minutes, meaning that six hours after a cigarette, only about 0.031 mg of the 1 mg of nicotine you inhaled remains in your body.

About 80 percent of nicotine is broken down to cotinine by enzymes in your liver.
Nicotine is also metabolized in your lungs to cotinine and nicotine oxide.
Cotinine and other metabolites are excreted in your urine. Cotinine has a 24-hour half-life, so you can test whether or not someone has been smoking in the past day or two by screening his or her urine for cotinine.

The remaining nicotine is filtered from the blood by your kidneys and excreted in the urine.
Different people metabolize nicotine at different rates. Some people even have a genetic defect in the enzymes in their liver that break down nicotine, whereby the mutant enzyme is much less effective at metabolizing nicotine than the normal variant. If a person has this gene, their blood and brain nicotine levels stay higher for longer after smoking a cigarette. Normally, people keep smoking cigarettes throughout the day to maintain a steady level of nicotine in their bodies. Smokers with this gene usually end up smoking many fewer cigarettes, because they don't constantly need more nicotine.

 

[rolygate]

For me, nicotine from ecigs is far less 'addictive' than coffee (or caffeine from coffee, if you prefer).

I can easily not vape for 6 hours - there is no real 'pull' to use the ecig even after 12 hours.

When my power went down for a day a couple of weeks back, not being able to brew a coffee resulted in real withdrawal symptoms that I would describe as at least ten times stronger than the ecig equivalent. Try it one day and perhaps you'll see what I mean: no tea and coffee is much more painful for someone who has been vaping several years and has long been over cigarettes.

I was reduced to heating water in a cup on a trivet lashed-up from coathangers over a large candle. It wasn't very good, and when the power came back on, the relief was incomparable.

So if you asked me to give up vaping or coffee/tea for a day, the vaping would be far easier to drop.

 

[Koman]

Great stuff, great information!

 

[bruiser]

What happened to the doctor?

 

[bruiser]

For me, nicotine from ecigs is far less 'addictive' than coffee (or caffeine from coffee, if you prefer).

I can easily not vape for 6 hours - there is no real 'pull' to use the ecig even after 12 hours.

When my power went down for a day a couple of weeks back, not being able to brew a coffee resulted in real withdrawal symptoms that I would describe as at least ten times stronger than the ecig equivalent. Try it one day and perhaps you'll see what I mean: no tea and coffee is much more painful for someone who has been vaping several years and has long been over cigarettes.

I was reduced to heating water in a cup on a trivet lashed-up from coathangers over a large candle. It wasn't very good, and when the power came back on, the relief was incomparable.

So if you asked me to give up vaping or coffee/tea for a day, the vaping would be far easier to drop.

I agree about the coffee. I bought an emergency coffee maker for use when the electric goes out. It's a Melitta, and all it is is a big cup with a filter holder that sits on top. Put the filter holder on, insert filter and amount of coffee you need. Have boiling water ready and slowly pour through the coffee grounds. It is good, but might need to experiment with the amount of coffee to use.

 

[Screwbag]

Why didn't I see this thread sooner?!

Great thread guys!

Anyhow, when I first started vaping, I got dry throat. Almost felt like strep. But some research led me to understand that this is a combination of effects from quitting smoking, and possibly made worse by vaping more often than I smoked (repetitive suction and dehydration) after a few days this went away...then came acne. Almost like high school all over again.

It wasn't long and all that cleared up as well. And as of my last physical my lung capacity etc has almost 25% increase since I started vaping. This is great for me being a commercial diver. And as my company's diver medic, I got our crew switched to vaping