The PIF USA rules and why you should read them

Discussion in 'Pay It Forward - PIF' started by loxmythe, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. loxmythe

    loxmythe PIF owner/moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    We love new members,:) each and every one contributes in their own way to keep the community alive and thriving.

    As more and more people join the PIF group it becomes more important than ever to have rules and guidelines in place. Although the members here have always gone out of their way to help new members become a part of the group and navigate their way through the forums and threads, they also helped write the rules and guidelines. The rules are there mainly to help avoid confusion, they are there for your benefit. It is incredibly rude to others to just jump in, post improperly, derail threads, go off topic, randomly chat, and otherwise cause confusion. The moderators as always are here to help with any questions or problems you may have. Please feel free to contact any of us via PM for help – preferably before you cause a problem. The moderators (contrary to popular belief) didn’t write the rules just to have an excuse to have a job, delete posts, move threads, and issue infractions. Some of us even have personal lives they would rather attend to. :p
    Please read the rules, ask questions if you don't understand something - have some consideration for others - after all its the polite thing to do.

    FYI the rules are here:
  2. Prism

    Prism PIF MODERATOR Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Thanks for the reminder Lox. We all like helping new members :)
  3. Tuck

    Tuck Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Something I would like to throw in here.
    The members here give from their own pockets and stuff. No one is getting things from suppliers and giving it away here.
    The items given are extras, maybe not an extra or a sample out of our own bottles. People here love to help others. But remember it is coming out of their own pockets when you put up a want.
  4. gramakittycat

    gramakittycat Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    You've made a good point Tuck and also if I may add there are a number who are on fixed incomes and even the couple of dollars to send something out may break the bank.There may be difficulties getting to the PO even to mail items.There are some incredibly generous folks here but please don't expect you will recieve new items if your equiptment breaks down or what have you.Learn about PV's ,how they work ,how to do some basic troubleshooting,etc.You don't need to be an expert to repair a broken cord or figure out how to use a bit of tin foil until you can afford to get some spacers.Just don't throw out broken/not-working equiptment;someone may have need for it or as I recently found out you may be able to repair it at some point.My vape was 5volt and my 5 volt had to be sent to fix.I was having problems using 3.7 but last week I came across a couple of broken passthrus repaired the wires and son of a gun they are working and I had learned that a no battery P/T is a 5 volt so I'm good and found a refurb Lil Sister to buy so in 'bout a week I'll get to try vari volt for the first time.And at a price I can afford to see how I like vv.I keep a supply of various adapters since Ive found I can stack those and/or switch around since some connect better than others even if the same size.Yes I may use alot of twine,baling wire and black tape and some might look a little weird but they work.I'm from the school of use it up ,wear it out,reuse it.and I guess there are alot of folks in these days learning that old adage.Please don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong in asking for help here if you truly are in need just don't automatically think of this as a place you can get what you want.I'm not so good with words sometimes and I hope I have'nt offended anyone.i know that PIF is a wonderful group of people that has become my on line family and I guess I feel a little protective at times.God bless us all...gramakittycat
  5. BiancaMontgomery

    BiancaMontgomery SQUIRREL! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I would like to add:

    What PIF is and isn't:
    PIF is a fantastic group with some incredible members. Truly some of the finest people I've had the pleasure to get to know, in real life or on the Internet. It's also a great place to discover new e-liquid flavors and vendors and trade this gear for that gear and to meet some of the nicest people on all of ECF. I'd like to see the few veteran member friends that I have left here STAY here (or even come back here). And I'd like to see the new members, new vapers that truly need help, get the help they need and eventually become more active members within the group. PIF is not a free supply of gear and liquids. It's a place to give and take, to help you help yourself and then when you're able, you give back to a new member in need (or even a veteran member going through a rough spot), bringing it full circle. Maybe I'm a dreamer, but this is my view of what PIF is...or what it should be.

    We need YOUR help:
    We try really hard to watch everything, but sometimes things get by us. We need YOU to report what you see happening if it's raising a red flag to you. And we need you all to do your giving and taking out in the open forum where it can be seen so that no one is taking advantage of anyone. It's just a fact that if things are done all hush hush for whatever reason, people get taken advantage of. Period. Sad, but true.

    Being rude on the PIF Thread (taking advantage of PIF's good will):
    New members (besides reading the rules and following them) need to be a little more gracious with their taking. If you're on the PIF threads and you're taking offers left and right in a matter of just a couple of days, you're doing it wrong. If you can only offer back into the thread a piece of blue foam and some empty carts, that's perfectly fine for one offer. Take that offer, offer back what you have, then be done until you ship your part of the deal and get your part of the deal. You can sample what you got, then come back and take another offer and you'll be able to offer back more this time. Taking large offers and offering very little over and over again is just rude. Maybe the first few times you did this, some very kind/nice person came behind you and added to your offer. That was aweseome! But if you're doing it again and again and again, you're wrong for doing it and if you don't stop on your own because it's the right thing to do, we will stop you to protect the very generous and loving members of this group that are trying very hard to make up for your rudeness.

    The intention of this group is beautiful. I still believe in what PIF stands for: Person A helps person B and then when person B can, they help person C and so on. And there is fun to be had, friends to be made and good karma points to rack up here. I will always say "Long live PIF" because I love this group and it's members. That is all.
  6. lynleestar

    lynleestar Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks, sometimes the older members need a reminder as well. PIF hug
  7. keyzygirl

    keyzygirl ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Thanks Guys,you made some really great points.We are here to help not to supply all your vaping needs.Vaping costs money just like smoking did.Be respectful of other members and help eachother and share.
  8. Tuck

    Tuck Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    B that was so well typed. Good for you
  9. leannebug

    leannebug Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I've been a little busy with home life, so I haven't seen the latest... but I have seen this situation time and again. I have even taken a break for some of these same reasons. Thank goodness for the PIF mods that do work hard to keep these things to a minimum these days. I've also not followed the rules myself, and tend to give privately to preserve both my own reputation (so that *I* am not repeatedly PMed) and save the face of someone needing something (it's HARD for us to take a 'handout' sometimes!)

    If you are taking advantage of PIF... here are a few examples of WHY and HOW this ends up being a problem (from an older member). I have a nice stock. This is true. First of all.. I save everything :) I have gone from paying for 3 packs of cigarettes a day (for 2 people) to purchasing for one vaper (myself).. so my budget was a bit bigger. I do alot of DIY, so I can save money that way. I was also raised to share. If I have 3 atties and JoJo needs 1.. I see that as: 1 for me, 1 for Jo, and an extra. If I have it, and someone else needs it.. it's a no-brainer.

    Now what's unusual about that? Around here.. not much, it's very common place :) If I am frugal, and watch for deals, I can pick up sets, or discounts, and pass these things along. Personally, I need to do this. I'm a single mom, disabled (so I do not have a salary income), I live on a fixed income, and pay for the things I need. I am blessed enough to come from a family that lives and behaves as I do, we help each other. I feel VERY lucky... and I pass these things along to others that may need something, because whatever it is.. if it's not being used at the moment. In my mind, it's an extra.

    I am often asked for things. If I make a PIF, or a comment offering to help, I am oft times PMed by multiple members asking for other items. Sometimes I offer one item, but I am then asked for something else. I have had people buy themselves something, then come to me to 'gift' items for their family members. Or- they may be out of something, and they ask me to supply it. I have given full packages (because someone needed it ATM) and then seen it put up for sale the next week. All these things are hard for me to swallow. I try to give without strings, I do not ask for something in return, (I'd rather see that these gifts get paid forward), and more importantly: not everyone that falls into these categories take advantage... they may end up big contributors of the community too. This is how it's supposed to work!!.. and it motivates me to return if I feel jaded about PIF!

    I guess my point is this; people are often treated like stores around here.. in more ways than one. They will always be taken advantage of, and chased off. Luckily we have many many great mods and rules and 'community watchdogs' that watch out for those like me. I probably wouldn't BE here if not for those safety nets. I have never ever been one to like rules. (usually the rule breaker!) And I have to bite my tongue sometimes when Miss Bee pulls out her whip... but I will be the first to step up and say "Thank You" for all the hard work, for if it weren't for the rules, this place would have crumbled long ago.

    Now.. off to see what the ruckus is about! :p
  10. Prism

    Prism PIF MODERATOR Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Thank You Leannebug. Beautifully explained. Love ya
  11. Elendil

    Elendil Assclown Exterminator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Herein lies the problem. I have no doubt you are a generous person leanne, but when this "behind the scenes" stuff happens without being reported abuses will occur. When a member PM's you, how do you know they aren't PM'ing 4 other generous members at the same time?

    This is why for PIF to continue to flourish, PIF's, wants, trades, etc must be done out in the open and not via PM. I hear that people are "too embarrassed" to ask out in the open. Well, I say that they have to get past that issue and follow the rules. I do not see anyone judging someone who has a genuine need. It needs to be in the open. When anyone decides to help "behind the scenes" they are enabling the problem to continue.

    I'm not picking on you specifically leanne, I appreciate the fact you are honest about it, but it really needs to stop if the abuse is to be curbed.........
  12. librarising

    librarising Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Leanne, beautifully said, earth angel you! Hugs and love. :)
  13. leannebug

    leannebug Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    :) It's OK.. no offense taken.

    I know it's a problem, and I SEE why the rules were created, and I know that I inadvertantly contributed to some of our rules, by my own behavior and actions. *sigh*

    Personally, I have tried to be more open about my giving, I've tried to post, or make notes. I don't like it.. and I cringe when I see flippant comments about "PIF members that like to be in the spotlight" or whatever.. (although not true, are still hurtful), and I try and be more vigilant, or careful in what/how/to whom I give. I've also bitten my tongue and said "no" occasionally.. hard to do, but sometimes necessary. But even with all these things.. old habits die hard. I'm not sure we will EVER get it all out in the open.

    There are too many people that are modest, and prefer to give in private.. and some of the most needy are the ones that don't say anything. Sad, but true. And although I see all the reasons why we need it, and I try hard to do it, maybe the current system needs tweaking?

    What if there was a database? I'm not a computer guru.. but surely a simple program could be modified to keep track of some of these things? Perhaps you might have more success getting someone to report privately, than to all. It wouldn't have to replace this.. just include the private folks?.. so that you can keep a closer eye on us 'rule breakers' :blush:
  14. keyzygirl

    keyzygirl ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    LBug you are one of the best parts of PIF and we all love and appreciate everything you do.We just want to keep you safe.
    (((((((((((BIG HUGS!!)))))))))))))
  15. BiancaMontgomery

    BiancaMontgomery SQUIRREL! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    "Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity."

    Just sayin'. :p
  16. Elendil

    Elendil Assclown Exterminator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    "Sunlight is the best disinfectant"
    ----Louis Brandeis
  17. The Big Chief

    The Big Chief Moved On ECF Veteran

    I havent agreed with with the way the need thread runs now, but one of the side effects of the change was ability to ask a mod to post a need FOR you and save face per say, so it does holds its benefits. There are avenues to remain anonymous and stay within guidlines now. But the shadows of the pm's were brought up often in the past, and looks like they are no where near a concern as they once were, but it wasnt by accident. We can throw the mods an "atta boy", becuase the place in general is running a little smoother, and not so much bickering as days of old. But vets still need to set the example, and have to abide by those rules themselves to do so.
  18. BiancaMontgomery

    BiancaMontgomery SQUIRREL! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I will raise you:

    Where secrecy or mystery begins, vice or roguery is not far off.
    Samuel Johnson
  19. keyzygirl

    keyzygirl ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    The needs have been cut down some and there have been some needs needed but luckily the mods have had the batts or attys and cartos or juice to donate to some of the needs.Does that make sense?We do make sure the people get thier needs fullfilled and dont allow for things to be taken advantage of like it had been.It seems to be working much better and people are not being taken advantage of as much as before.If anyone has a problem with being asked for things in PM or feels that someone has taken advantage of them or sees something they think we missed,PLEASE just PM one of us and we will be happy to help you so that things keep running smoothly.We want to know whats going on so we can make it right so that everyone is happy.
  20. Elendil

    Elendil Assclown Exterminator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out.
    ~Thomas Babington Macaulay

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