The Rattlesnake Effect- Why the Cheapo VV [Exception Itaste MVP] Don't Vape the Same as a Provari or DNA20D

Discussion in 'Variable Voltage APV Discussion' started by tomzgreat, Nov 6, 2013.

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  1. tomzgreat

    tomzgreat Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    If you check out any of the PBusardo videos and fast forward to the section where he tests the voltage output. All of the low end vv devices, the Vamo, the SVD, Zmax etc are using PWM or Pulse Width Modulation without filters.PBusardo says that you can tell because when you vape on these devices on certain atomizers they sound like a rattlesnake.

    The Provari, The Itaste MVP, the DNA20D Mods all have filters or are using different technology and they are outputting a straight voltage amount.

    You may ask what is the difference. Well the PWM has a fluctuation in voltage that is very large and very quick, some say that you can't detect it. Some even like it better. Some say it make the atty sound like a rattlesnake and is harsher.

    For example on a Vamo if you set the voltage to 4V the voltage will fluctuate between around 7v and 3v the duty cycle will be short and the ending mean is the 4v that you've set.

    A Picture is worth a thousand words, I captured the top two pictures from PBusardos You Tube Review of the Vamo and the bottom from his Youtube Video of the MVP.

    Picture 1 showing the 33hz chip that the Vamos Uses
    pwm1.jpg


    Picture 2 Showing the Voltage Wave fluctuation of a Vamo
    PWM2.jpg


    Picture 3 Showing the Voltage Wave Fluctuation of a MVP or Provari or DNA20D
    PWM3.jpg
     
  2. RatInDaHat

    RatInDaHat Peace, I'm outta here Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    33hz, not 33mhz
     
  3. tomzgreat

    tomzgreat Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Edit Made, Thank You
     
  4. ktazz

    ktazz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    What about the itaste vv 3? It should be the same as a MVP circuitry I hope

    Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk
     
  5. tomzgreat

    tomzgreat Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I checked the Pbusardo review and it says the signal is flat. So yes it's not using PWM

    It's a winner!
     
  6. tomzgreat

    tomzgreat Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    By the way the Ego Twist according to Busardo doesn't give a flat reading above it's lowest setting and he had to use a device that averages the waves.

    So no you aren't going to get a Provari - MVP -Dna20D Vape off of an Ego.
     
  7. yzer

    yzer Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    I love that Zmax rattlesnake vape. Vaping without it just isn't as good.
     
  8. Mike.S

    Mike.S Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    You can taste electricity? Uh, OK, whatever.
     
  9. tomzgreat

    tomzgreat Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    The stability of the Power wave may effect the quality of the vape.

    With the PWM fluctuating the voltage goes very high then low. This effects how the coils are heated. Instead of a constant heating of the coil you have fluctuations in the heating. [Debatably] and this will effect how the juice is vaporized and possibly the quality and taste of the vape.
     
  10. yzer

    yzer Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Uh, the rattlesnake effect (for those that never experienced it) is a pulse in vapor production from these PWM APVs. It is sensed by hearing alone. The rattlesnake effect is loudest when is the power button is pressed without anything contacting the drip tip.

    The rattlesnake sound is related to the 33hz chips used in the APVs, but is nowhere close to being an audible 33hz tone. The sound actually seems to cycle a few times per second. The rattlesnake has no effect on vapor quality that I can detect.

    Nobody is going to see a difference in a coil glowing with DC power pulsed 33 times per second compared to a coil powered by pure DC. The same goes with vapor produced by the coil.

    Unless you just don't like the sound, the rattlesnake effect is a non-issue.
     
  11. OhmTheWatt

    OhmTheWatt Full Member

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    When I hear people talk about "rattlesnaking" I think of the huge flavor that comes from those big pops.

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
     
  12. yzer

    yzer Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Yep, the rattlesnake effect is nothing like the snap, crackle and pop of juice in an atomizing device. The 33hz chip APVs will do that too. Snap, crackle and pop is not only heard by the vaper but felt in the mouth, too.
     
  13. jimbill

    jimbill Team ECF Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    This is a bunch of bull.You are telling me my vamo does not vape good because it's not a provari?. All i can say is that i can't tell the difference from my vamo and unregulated mods one bit and a lot of people on this forum agree.
     
  14. r77r7r

    r77r7r Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Real men vape rattlesnakes. Smooth vaping is for sissies.
     
  15. Rocketpunk

    Rocketpunk Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Oh, jeez. Not this again...
     
  16. Rickajho

    Rickajho ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I sure don't. I can tell if a Vamo V2 is in PWM mode or RMS mode just by the sensations in the vape. I don't have to look at the display to know what mode it's running in.
     
  17. Rader2146

    Rader2146 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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  18. Rader2146

    Rader2146 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Just for the sake of clarity...there is a HUGE different between the terms PWM and a Pulsed Output. PWM is a function of the regulator; a method of controlling voltage. A pulsed output is just that; On-Off-On-Off-On-Off.

    ALL modern VV and VW devices use PWM as a means to give us variable voltage/wattage, but not all of them have a pulsed output.
     
  19. Mike.S

    Mike.S Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    LOL. The only difference between PWM and RMS is how the voltage setting is mapped to the duty cycle. For any given RMS setting, there's a PWM setting which produces the same output. You're noticing a difference in the actual power, not the mode. RMS mode is more like VW (but it doesn't consider the resistance of the coil, like VW), it's logarithmic rather than linear.
     
  20. Mike.S

    Mike.S Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    That's misleading. Although most boost/buck converters use PWM input for regulation, the output of the main stage is a modified triangle wave, not a PWM square wave as is being discussed. There's also an output capacitor which makes the method used by the control loop insignificant to the output, so why even bring it up?
     
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