The Rebel and Boxer 3D printed APV Box Mods Thread.

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billybc96

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Aug 24, 2010
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Greetings,

I'm a happy owner of two different boxers (BTW: they have their own threads here, just do a search) both of which are classic, a dual 18650 SX350Jv1 and a 26650 powered SX350Jv2.

The dual does not get much use because of the lack of USB charging. The 26650 on the other hand lives on my night stand outfitted with a nautilus 5ml with a and a 30AWG NiFe48 flatwire build.

Oddly, the nightstand one simply gets its battery swapped when the tank needs refilling. ;)

I'd have to say that I'm a big fan of the 26650 mods for my style of vaping:
27757696100_a87ef0f73d.jpg

("Pico-Mega" not pictured. Many I have multiple copies of)

Over the whole whooping ~2yrs of vaping and lots of devices I've formed a "IMHO" when it comes to powering our atomizers:
  • A single 18650 will last <=9hrs even with 'toodle puffing' builds
  • +=30W needs multi-cell MOD for any real run time
  • A good quality single 26650 can power a 'toodle puffing' build for about the same run time as a dual 18650 setup
  • 26650's have to much 'droop' to use with medium to high energy builds
I can't speak to how sturdy the Boxers are as I rarely (if ever) drop my mods. The boxer 26650 model is MUCH lighter than the metal bodied counter parts offered by other vendors.

While I was planning on getting more 26650 SX350J mods I ended up getting replacement controller PCB's instead. Much less expensive.

Thank you, GeorgeS, those size comparison pics are very useful. Those are all some nice looking mods there. The Boxer Mod looks to be about the same height as the Dicodes #6, which is reportedly 3.19 inches tall. Is that about correct? Replacing the PCB, instead of the whole device, that makes a lot of sense. Do you do that yourself, or have someone do it for you? I'd be afraid of screwing up, especially if any soldering is involved.

I'm surprised how short the Dicodes #6 is. I've only recently become aware of Dicodes (very well reviewed, but fairly expensive) devices, as I just ordered some NiFe30 wire from them. I'm curious if you've used their NiFe30 (28 gauge round) wire, and how you would compare it to the NiFe48 flat wire you are using now, or other TC wire you have used?

I love the look of the stabilized wood version Dicodes, but they are over $400 - which is well out of my price range. I like that all of their box mods have the screen on top of the device though, which would seem easier to read while vaping. I wouldn't need that functionality all of the time, but it would sometimes be nice to have for TC monitoring and adjustment. I'm kind of surprised we don't see that layout more often with other mod designs.

As to your single 26650 Boxer YiHi 350Jv2 pictured above (that you say is MUCH lighter than otherwise similar performing metal bodied mods), how much would you say it weighs (fully loaded) in comparison to the HCigar VT75 that is pictured next to it, or the Dicodes #6? I can usually get decent dimensional info on at least some of these devices, but accurate weight info can be trickier to obtain.

There have been some negative comments regarding how well the color dyed finish holds up (fades) over time on the Boxer Mods. How long have you had yours, and how well does its color dyed finish appear to be holding up for you - as regards fading?
 

GeorgeS

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  • May 31, 2015
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    Humm.... so many questions.

    I get the Dicodes from your neck of the woods so to speak - Cream-de-Vape. Imported from England. (also where I got my last two YiHi "Q" mini's)

    I get my wire from Zipdf (Germany). Considering a build will last me 1/2 a year or more I don't care about the prices. International Paypal seems to work fine.

    Dicodes mods cost in the same league as Boxer and YiHi mods do in the US. Spendy for a tube mod but considering that they are about the only TC regulated tube mod they are almost worth every penny. (I have not plunked down on one yet!) The #6 interested me as it was powered by a 26650.

    The Dicodes branded NiFe30 (TCR:320) is just another NiFe blend. Not as high of a TCR as 48 or 70 but decent. I smoked for far to many years to "taste wire". Their 28AWG reminded me of working with Ni200.

    I don't have a scale nor am I going to go looking for one. Ether Ginger vapor has weight on their website or one of the reviewers must of weighed one. Nylon is surely lighter than metal.

    Both my Boxers spend most of their life indoors so have not been exposed to UV fading at all. Personally I don't really care about the fading if it comes to that. In both cases I bought for YiHi powered battery life and not for looks.

    Be sure to let us know how you like your "Rebel" when it comes in.
     

    billybc96

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    Aug 24, 2010
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    Humm.... so many questions.

    I get the Dicodes from your neck of the woods so to speak - Cream-de-Vape. Imported from England. (also where I got my last two YiHi "Q" mini's)

    I get my wire from Zipdf (Germany). Considering a build will last me 1/2 a year or more I don't care about the prices. International Paypal seems to work fine.

    Dicodes mods cost in the same league as Boxer and YiHi mods do in the US. Spendy for a tube mod but considering that they are about the only TC regulated tube mod they are almost worth every penny. (I have not plunked down on one yet!) The #6 interested me as it was powered by a 26650.

    The Dicodes branded NiFe30 (TCR:320) is just another NiFe blend. Not as high of a TCR as 48 or 70 but decent. I smoked for far to many years to "taste wire". Their 28AWG reminded me of working with Ni200.

    I don't have a scale nor am I going to go looking for one. Ether Ginger vapor has weight on their website or one of the reviewers must of weighed one. Nylon is surely lighter than metal.

    Both my Boxers spend most of their life indoors so have not been exposed to UV fading at all. Personally I don't really care about the fading if it comes to that. In both cases I bought for YiHi powered battery life and not for looks.

    Be sure to let us know how you like your "Rebel" when it comes in.

    Yeah, I'm sorry about all the questions, but I've looked all over the forums and 3D printed mod info is pretty sparse, even on the very few threads specifically about these mods - which there really aren't many of at all. Strangely enough, neither Ginger Vaper, esauce, Boxer Mods or Rebel Mods lists weight info on any of these mods. You'd think they would, as one would think their relative lightness in weight would be a selling point.

    It sounds like I may not be all that hot on the Dicodes Resistherm NiFe30 wire, but I've never played with Ni200, just SS 316L, so I will try to keep an open mind about it. Some folks over on the Planet of Vapes forum have used it and the higher TCR Stealth Vapes NiFe30 wire. The Stealth Vapes stuff is much more available (and in more gauges) in Europe than it is here in the US, so it is more commonly mentioned on that forum. People seem to like either one though, for TC MTL builds anyway, as opposed to using Ni200 or Ti wire for that purpose.

    I'm attracted to maybe trying out Ti wire because it reportedly doesn't gunk up much at all, so your builds could potentially last much longer, but I'm not sure it would otherwise be well suited to MTL builds. I'll just have to see how I like the Resistherm NiFe30. Other TCR ratings and gauges of NiFe wire are hard to come by in the US, so checking out a bunch of different kinds at once would be a little cost prohibitive. I spend enough on vape gear as it is. I have to spread out my costs so the wife doesn't have a heart attack.

    One last question: It looks like you have DNA75 and YiHi SX run devices. It sounds like you prefer the YiHi SX chipsets, at least for better battery power management. I was curious if you had any other thoughts about the relative merits between the DNA75 and SX350Jv2 chipsets, at least when it comes to a "tootle puffing" style of vape in a small, single battery operated device.
     

    GeorgeS

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  • May 31, 2015
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    I'm sorry but to me heating wire is heating wire. One is not going to "taste" better or worse than another. One is not going to be better for MTL vs DTL vaping. Nor is one going to 'gunk up' more than another.

    Simply put some have better TCR values than others and some are softer than others. NiFe30 - Zivipf Onlineshop

    Sorry I did completely miss that you were also in the USA. The prices on NiFe that Zivipf has is very reasonable to me. Orders normally get here 7-10 days. Temco is a great source for TI wire. It is USA based. I've gotten spools of Temco TI wire from Amazon of all places. I've never used SS3xx wire as I mainly stick to wire with >=TCR200 and above. Just about everything I use (outside of my EVOD's) is temperature regulated.

    When I first got into vaping I was replacing builds multiple times a day trying different experiments. I went through a bunch of wire. I'm rather lazy and my builds these days last months (if not year+) and my wire consumption has dropped dramatically. I'll recoil only if I FUBAR the build swapping wick.

    Yes I do own three DNA75 type mods however my preference for YiHi mods has nothing to do with power management. Much like the wire opinion above I believe that any chipset can be setup for any type of vaping. (recall that the 350Jv1 and 350Jv2 were only offered by YiHi as single 18650 mods. (the "M" series and the "ML" series) A VaporFlask or Boxer mod was the only options to gain dual battery. Boxer mod the only option to gain a 26650 battery)

    If battery life is your monkeys uncle then consider a iJoy Lux as it is powered by 2x26650's and can last all weekend. Very heavy but it outlasts everything else I own. Sadly for TC it only has Ni/Ti/SS settings (no custom TCR).

    Then again, why not just get a Boxer? They are only $200USD. Boxer Mod Classic YiHi75W with SX350J-V2 Temperature Control - Ginger Vaper
     
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    billybc96

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    I'm sorry but to me heating wire is heating wire. One is not going to "taste" better or worse than another. One is not going to be better for MTL vs DTL vaping. Nor is one going to 'gunk up' more than another.

    Simply put some have better TCR values than others and some are softer than others. NiFe30 - Zivipf Onlineshop

    Sorry I did completely miss that you were also in the USA. The prices on NiFe that Zivipf has is very reasonable to me. Orders normally get here 7-10 days. Temco is a great source for TI wire. It is USA based. I've gotten spools of Temco TI wire from Amazon of all places. I've never used SS3xx wire as I mainly stick to wire with >=TCR200 and above. Just about everything I use (outside of my EVOD's) is temperature regulated.

    When I first got into vaping I was replacing builds multiple times a day trying different experiments. I went through a bunch of wire. I'm rather lazy and my builds these days last months (if not year+) and my wire consumption has dropped dramatically. I'll recoil only if I FUBAR the build swapping wick.

    Yes I do own three DNA75 type mods however my preference for YiHi mods has nothing to do with power management. Much like the wire opinion above I believe that any chipset can be setup for any type of vaping. (recall that the 350Jv1 and 350Jv2 were only offered by YiHi as single 18650 mods. (the "M" series and the "ML" series) A VaporFlask or Boxer mod was the only options to gain dual battery. Boxer mod the only option to gain a 26650 battery)

    If battery life is your monkeys uncle then consider a iJoy Lux as it is powered by 2x26650's and can last all weekend. Very heavy but it outlasts everything else I own. Sadly for TC it only has Ni/Ti/SS settings (no custom TCR).

    Then again, why not just get a Boxer? They are only $200USD. Boxer Mod Classic YiHi75W with SX350J-V2 Temperature Control - Ginger Vaper

    My concerns regarding wire have nothing to do with taste. I've not experienced any taste differences, at least so far, between different wire types. No, I was just interested in suitability, and ease of use for small'ish deck TC MTL builds, compared to other wire used in TC builds.

    I'm sure I will be getting more accuracy with Resistherm NiFe30, and I know I should be able to do the 2.5-3mm ID coil builds I want with it, using a fairly small number of spaced wraps. Stuff like the Stealth Vapes NiFe30 requires more wraps to get up a bit in resistance where I prefer (for better accuracy, using thin'ish , but not too thin, gauge wire).

    Since I'm a chain vaping MTL guy, I inherently push things a bit using your typical MTL RTA. So anything I can do to help keep my vape satisfactory, but under control, is always of interest to me. Some (very long, busy) days, I can go through almost 30ml of juice, though on a typical day I go through less than half of that.

    I end up changing my wicks every other day of use, or sometimes everyday. I use tobacco flavored juices, which accounts for much of the extra gunk that causes me to have to do that.

    Battery life is not my monkey's uncle. At first it sounded like maybe it was one of yours, which is why I wondered if that was one of your preferences regarding YiHi board run devices. But it doesn't sound like you have a strong chipset preference after all, and that's all fine.

    I'm not all that thrilled with my iStick Pico 75 board's performance in TC. I can manually enter a TCR, but that doesn't matter for now while I'm using SS wite anyway - as it has a preset for that. So I'm interested in using devices with boards that can deliver TC power more smoothly - even to SS wire. While at the same time I am also interested in using other wire that any modern TC chipset can run more accurately than SS.
     

    GeorgeS

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  • May 31, 2015
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    What do you use for RTA's? Personally I currently have in rotation: KFv5's, Lemo2's and a handful of OBS Crius's. There's a Nautilus that lives on my night stand mod.

    Generally speaking I used to let the ID of the juice channels dictate the ID of my coils however lately I've undersized them to using 2mm (and smaller). For me the coil is about wick coverage (surface area) and tend to stuff as many windings as I can in a build. Using flat wire fills an atomizer quickly.

    Using thinner wire requires less power to heat up.

    Thankfully I vape almost exclusively unflavored (which by itself has a tobacco hint of flavor to it) which take months to gunk up a wick+coil. I could not imagine rewicking as often as you do.

    The thinner of just about all types is much 'weaker' than the popular larger wire sizes. I've fairly settled on 26-30AWG for most of my builds.

    I I'm or was obsessed with squeezing battery run time out of my setups. After the early days of vaping and <=8hr of run time I seemed always caught with a setup that was ether out of juice or out of battery or both. Carrying extra batteries never seemed a viable option however I do keep a spare rig in the glove box and in my coat pocket "just in case".

    Up until recently fitting a dual battery mod along with a cell phone in a shirt breast pocket was a bit much - frankly some of the 26650's don't fit all that well ether.
     

    ShowerHead

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    I'll just echo GeorgeS here.
    I use only Zivipf for wire nowadays because I've gotten some questionable wire from nearly every other source.
    When I order wire, I only use SS 430 or NiFe52 because of the much better (higher) TCR values. That gives a chip more 'room' for accuracy in temp determination.
    Of course that means I have to have a mod that supports manual TCR, but I that's all I have.
    Battery life is important to me only to the extent that I don't want a dual battery mod that needs fresh batteries after half a day of vaping.
    Currently, I'm using an Hcigar VT167, 2 Samsung 30Qs, Aromamizer Plus with dual SS 430 claptons, 6 wraps, 3.5 ID coming in at .20 ohms for the pair. I vape the tank at 70W with a 80W preheat. The VT167 actually runs this at around 24-27W once temp is achieved though.
    My batteries last me just about a day vaping a 10ml tank dry.

    Hope this helps.
     

    billybc96

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    I currently mostly use Kayfun Mini V3 clones, including a KF Mini V3 Plus which I have just recently started playing around with - mainly for the somewhat larger juice capacity. The KF Mini V3s are all pretty good MTL RTAs.

    I've also tried the Mini Goblin V3, Mini Serpent, and Augvapes Merlin with their airflow restriction devices in place for MTL draw. The velocity decks on those were all very nice to build on, but all of those RTAs had problems leaking. The KF Mini V3s (despite all being clones) have been much more dependable. I'm still looking into trying some newer MTL RTAs, like the 22mm Digiflavor Siren GTA.

    Before that I used Kabuki clones and Nautilus Mini clearomizer tanks for quite awhile, just with various factory built BVC heads that have been available for them - including their TC heads, which sucked eggs. I figured TC MTL vaping was pie-in-the-sky BS because of that, unless I wanted to rebuild - which I did not. I never tried the aftermarket Nautilus/Kabuki RTA deck, though I was aware of them.

    I hadn't used an RTA since several years ago when I got and used a Kayfun Mini Lite Plus for awhile. It vaped well (very well, for the time), but rewicking and refilling was a pain. It seriously "burned through juice" compared to what I was used to, so I had to refill it frequently through a small screw hole in the bottom of the device. I am frequently out and about, often driving for hours, so using an RTA like that regularly just wasn't practical.

    So I stopped rebuilding and started using the Nautilus Minis and Kabuki clones, which was still a big improvement over the iClear 16 clearomizers I had been using before that. And before that...it's been so long I can barely remember - I used some kind of eGo type dual coil (oh, wow!) clearomizer. Before that it was m401 series cigalikes, using pre-cartomizer cartridges and separate atomizers. Those had a juice capacity of like 0.5ml, and the batteries were maybe 125-150mah? (It's been awhile. I can't remember exactly. Maybe they were 175mah?)

    Even back then people were saying I needed to step up to eGo sized batteries, which I eventually did. Having to press a button to vape though, man, that took awhile to get used to, or so I thought it would, but it really only took about a day. Silly me. It took maybe two years since I started vaping 7 or so years ago to make that simple transition.

    I, and the rest of us, have come a long way since then. I've only recently (within the last 6 months or so) got back into rebuilding - specifically to do TC MTL builds. Those above mentioned RTAs are what I started out with in that effort. My first TC mod was an IPV D2 for using Nautilus TC factory coil heads in my Kabuki clones. At the time, I found that box mod to be a bit big and heavy - compared to an Innokin iTase vv3 or iStick Mini, which are what I was using before. (Yes, to power those "large" Nautilus Minis and Kabuki clones, as well as the more size appropriate little iClear 16s.)

    Then I got some Brazilian Zebra wood TC box mod that was super lightweight (I forget the name of it), but the SS buttons rattled maddeningly on that device, so I gave that away to my oldest daughter - who was just getting into vaping to quit using a hookah. After that I got my first iStick Pico 75W, then I like that so much I got a 2nd one. That's what I currently use.

    But I was still mostly doing wattage power mode builds with Kanthal. TC MTL builds took me awhile to get comfortable with using SS wire. One of my main hang ups was getting used to the fact that I did not need above ohm builds to do good TC MTL. Now I do below ohm SS TC builds all the time, but I know I could be doing better with more appropriate wire, and using a higher end mod - though I know that last is not absolutely necessary.

    A typical SS TC MTL build for me now has a 2.5 to 3mm ID coil, so I have sufficient wick capacity for chain vaping high VG tobacco flavor juices. I don't do NET flavored juices. I do about 7-9 wraps, depending on the wire gauge I use, which is typically 26 or 28 gauge. 30 gauge tends to deform/bend a bit too much, a bit too easily, but is okay. I typically don't use it anymore. 24 gauge seems unnecessarily thick for my needs, but that could change using a different wire material. My SS TC builds range from about 0.5 to 0.9 ohms.

    Higher resistance TC builds tend to be more accurate, but not always that much more accurate as to matter much - depending on what wire you are using (its TCR) and other factors. Too high a resistance build and you get up to where your TC board won't want to play nice, and so you get kicked back into regular wattage mode. Luckily, when using SS wire that is not a big issue - which is probably why I've stuck with using it exclusively for awhile now. But SS still kind of sucks, as a cheap board won't read its small resistance variations very well (or often enough, or whatever) leading to inconsistent power delivery.

    Thinner gauge wire can also help with TC accuracy, so it is typically best to use the thinnest wire that still suits all your other build needs. Twisted, Clapton and other such fancy wire are a whole other ball game. I've tried using double twisted SS wire, but the deck screws on a KF Mini V3 don't clamp down on the wire very well - leading to all sorts of problematic connection issues that were too big a pain to deal with. I've heard twisted SS wire can work well for TC, but the KF Mini V3's deck screws are too tiny to accommodate such wire nicely.

    I switch between using rayon and cotton wick. Wicking with rayon can be a pain, but when done right it does wick better than any cotton out there. It's just hard to wick right, so sometimes I fall back on using something like Cotton Bacon v2. Cotton like that works pretty well, but burns more easily than rayon - which limits my vape more, so then I bounce back to trying rayon again. But if not done right, rayon sucks compared to cotton, and so on and so forth.

    That's about where I am these days with TC MTL. Despite how it sounds, I'm actually doing fine with it, but I am always looking to do even better.

    Update Edit: Sorry, I forgot to mention my power needs. Though I can, sometimes, MTL chain vape as much as 30ml a day in juice, I am okay using a single 18650 or 26650 battery powered device. That is, as long as it is not a built-in battery type of mod, so I can easily change out the battery whenever necessary. On heavy vape days I end up switching out batteries every several hours. That doesn't bother me. I'd much rather do that than use a ginormous two or three battery mod.

    I carry two extra charged batteries on me whenever I'm away from home, in silicone battery sleeves. I will carry 3 or more for overnight trips (though two extra is usually sufficient). Carrying around 2-3 extra 18650 batteries in my pocket does not bother me. I'm not sure how I will feel about carrying around two extra 26650 batteries on me all the time. Those things are pretty fat compared to an 18650.

    I hardly ever charge via the USB port. Instead, I just switch out batteries as needed. I have a 4-battery charger at home. I have a single battery charger in my car at all times. And also a double battery charger to pack with me when going on extended trips - and as a backup for the other two chargers.

    I've never used a dual or triple 18650 battery mod, and I would not want to. Typically I have one favorite mod, and that is the mod I use all the time - in or out of the house, regardless of what I am doing. That's just my preference, as it keeps my vaping life simple. So I like that device to be relatively small and light. I pack an extra one (not necessarily the same mod) as a backup for extended trips - like for when I went to Poland with my family for 3 weeks last year. (I took a bunch of vape gear with me on that trip, but didn't really need to take quite so much.)
     
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    Mowgli

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    Mar 25, 2013
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    with batteries & full tank

    RX200s wearing an Aromamizer V2 = 13.4oz
    Dual classic 350j Boxer/Boreas = 7.95oz
    Dual classic 350j Boxer/Aromamizer V2 = 7.6oz
    REO mini w/RM2 = 5.5oz

    My blue classic Boxer has kept it's color almost 100% over almost 2 years
    I have to Kiwi polish my black ones every few months and the orange faded too.

    Rebel rep said blue & black keep their color but red & green (the colors I want) use a different dye method. I spoke with them a few months ago.

    The orange one belonged to a mechanic. I had to scrub the everliving .... out of it with GoJo & Dawn on a plastic bristle brush to get it anything close to clean looking. That's where most of the color went.

    17015845_1921947134702774_6618473538875010055_o.jpg


    Boxer fits 30ml Plus like it was made for it

    15965842_1899074066990081_5184943666619029331_n.jpg


    15000027_1859815697582585_3244728218942667749_o.jpg


    14890436_1859815824249239_2615941026558423342_o.jpg



    before

    15400974_1877056135858541_6215188090808324357_n.jpg


    15350454_1877056442525177_7184873406540642193_n.jpg


    He let the magic smoke out of the board

    15390859_1877056245858530_1020310143028917789_n.jpg
     
    Last edited:

    billybc96

    Super Member
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    Aug 24, 2010
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    Reno, Nevada, USA
    with batteries & full tank

    RX200s wearing an Aromamizer V2 = 13.4oz
    Dual classic 350j Boxer/Boreas = 7.95oz
    Dual classic 350j Boxer/Aromamizer V2 = 7.6oz
    REO mini w/RM2 = 5.5oz

    My blue classic Boxer has kept it's color almost 100% over almost 2 years
    I have to Kiwi polish my black ones every few months and the orange faded too.

    Rebel rep said blue & black keep their color but red & green (the colors I want) use a different dye method. I spoke with them a few months ago.

    The orange one belonged to a mechanic. I had to scrub the everliving .... out of it with GoJo & Dawn on a plastic bristle brush to get it anything close to clean looking. That's where most of the color went.

    17015845_1921947134702774_6618473538875010055_o.jpg


    Boxer fits 30ml Plus like it was made for it

    15965842_1899074066990081_5184943666619029331_n.jpg


    15000027_1859815697582585_3244728218942667749_o.jpg


    14890436_1859815824249239_2615941026558423342_o.jpg



    before

    15400974_1877056135858541_6215188090808324357_n.jpg


    15350454_1877056442525177_7184873406540642193_n.jpg


    He let the magic smoke out of the board

    15390859_1877056245858530_1020310143028917789_n.jpg



    Great info. Thank you, Mowgli.

    My iStick Pico 75 with a large Kayfun Mini V3 Plus (only about a 3 to 3.5ml juice capacity tank), full of juice, and with an 18650 battery in the mod, that weighs just under 1/2 a pound (about 7.5 ounces). You've got two dual battery Boxer Mods there that weigh about that much, or a fraction of an ounce more, even fully loaded - with fairly hefty tanks on them. The REO Mini setup, from pics I've looked at online, looks pretty small, so I'm not surprised it weighs about 5.5 ounces. I'm wondering if the Rebel DNA75 single 26650 3D printed mod, fully loaded, will end up weighing about that much? That would be just a bit more than my iStick Pico 75 weighs with a battery, but without an RTA sitting on it.

    I'll just have to wait and see. I can hardly wait. I'm still waiting on Royal Mail to send me a tracking number on that shipment. Very annoying.

    I got my Dicodes 28 gauge Resistherm NiFe30 wire in today. I got it just a few minutes ago, so no time yet to do a build with the stuff. I'll do that as soon as I can in one of my Kayfun Mini V3 clones, and report back how well it does just using the iStick Pico 75 as the TC platform. I ordered this stuff from Dicodes USA, but the shipment came from Malaysia of all places - which seems pretty weird for wire that supposedly originally comes from Germany. Regardless, I love getting vape mail. It gets me pretty excited - even when it is something simple like this stuff, or just a new drip tip. It still kind of amazes me that you can order something online from halfway around the world and receive it (sometimes) within just a few days.
     
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    GeorgeS

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    While it has been said time and time again that "resistance does not matter for regulated mods" the actual reality is that for any given chipset there can be a "sweet spot" or battery voltage and load that is more efficient than other battery loads and voltages. Sadly nobody in the mod review arenas ever check conversion efficiencies. As such we have little to no data as to when any given mod is operating at its peek efficiency.

    Case in point: "boost" or "buck"

    In just about every case of DC/DC stepup/stepdown (boost/buck) non-vaping related voltage regulator that I've come across the conversion efficiency (battery to output voltage) is always higher/better doing a stepdown (buck) than doing a stepup (boost).

    My theory here is that it might make sense to try to keep a single battery mod in a "buck" (stepdown) mode in efforts to increase battery run time.

    For a "toodle puffing" build on a single battery mod I'd consider the following:

    3.2V 15W 0.68 Ohms
    3.4V 15W 0.77 Ohms

    Ohms law tells me that at a battery voltage of 3.2V to draw 15W I'd need 0.68 ohms. Like wise at 3.4V the same 15W would require a load of 0.77 ohms.

    In both cases less ohms load would equate to higher wattage and more ohms load would equate to needed higher voltage. The idea here is to keep the mod in "buck mode".

    With a target "hot" resistance of 0.68 and 0.77 ohms here's a table of different multiplication/division factors for a number of popular wire types and the resulting target "cold" resistance of the coil:

    250C/482F 68 77
    316L 1.207 0.56 0.64
    317L 1.262 0.54 0.61
    430 1.3174 0.52 0.58

    Ni200 2.30876 0.29 0.33
    NiFe70 2.19 0.31 0.35
    NiFe52 1.93 0.35 0.40
    Ti-01 1.84659 0.37 0.42
    NiFe30 1.736 0.39 0.44

    Personally I generally use NiFe52/48 so a target cold resistance of 0.35-0.40 ohms would be just about perfect for the best efficiency over the 4.2-3.2V battery discharge cycle.
     

    billybc96

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    While it has been said time and time again that "resistance does not matter for regulated mods" the actual reality is that for any given chipset there can be a "sweet spot" or battery voltage and load that is more efficient than other battery loads and voltages. Sadly nobody in the mod review arenas ever check conversion efficiencies. As such we have little to no data as to when any given mod is operating at its peek efficiency.

    Case in point: "boost" or "buck"

    In just about every case of DC/DC stepup/stepdown (boost/buck) non-vaping related voltage regulator that I've come across the conversion efficiency (battery to output voltage) is always higher/better doing a stepdown (buck) than doing a stepup (boost).

    My theory here is that it might make sense to try to keep a single battery mod in a "buck" (stepdown) mode in efforts to increase battery run time.

    For a "toodle puffing" build on a single battery mod I'd consider the following:

    3.2V 15W 0.68 Ohms
    3.4V 15W 0.77 Ohms

    Ohms law tells me that at a battery voltage of 3.2V to draw 15W I'd need 0.68 ohms. Like wise at 3.4V the same 15W would require a load of 0.77 ohms.

    In both cases less ohms load would equate to higher wattage and more ohms load would equate to needed higher voltage. The idea here is to keep the mod in "buck mode".

    With a target "hot" resistance of 0.68 and 0.77 ohms here's a table of different multiplication/division factors for a number of popular wire types and the resulting target "cold" resistance of the coil:

    250C/482F 68 77
    316L 1.207 0.56 0.64
    317L 1.262 0.54 0.61
    430 1.3174 0.52 0.58

    Ni200 2.30876 0.29 0.33
    NiFe70 2.19 0.31 0.35
    NiFe52 1.93 0.35 0.40
    Ti-01 1.84659 0.37 0.42
    NiFe30 1.736 0.39 0.44

    Personally I generally use NiFe52/48 so a target cold resistance of 0.35-0.40 ohms would be just about perfect for the best efficiency over the 4.2-3.2V battery discharge cycle.

    Great post, GeaorgeS. Thank you. I've read a bit about this "sweet spot" business before. It comes up on other threads relating to TC once and awhile. I don't fully understand the concept, but it certainly sounds like it makes sense, and could be useful for really dialing in an efficient vape.

    Awhile back, I saw this link (about halfway down Page 13) to the following Google Sheets posted Excel Spreadsheet: "The Bloke's TCR Adjustment Calculator - for SXK low resistance, high Static Resistance, and general nerdishly-accurate Temp Control!" on this interesting and useful ECF thread: "TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance".
    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...herm-nife30-coefficient-of-resistance.676506/
    Sorry, that paragraph was a bit of a mouthful. I've only just very recently started playing around with that calculator linked to above. You can enter your target temp, wire type and other variables - which then provides a "Best Resistivity" indicator in a simple field. It is pretty self explanatory once you view the sheet itself. The calculator looks potentially useful, so I think it is worth checking out.
     

    GeorgeS

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  • May 31, 2015
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    I currently mostly use Kayfun Mini V3 clones, including a KF Mini V3 Plus which I have just recently started playing around with - mainly for the somewhat larger juice capacity. The KF Mini V3s are all pretty good MTL RTAs.

    It sounds like you have the hard part already figured out - finding an RTA that you like and that "likes you". I've never tried the KF3 series. I tend to go for juice capacity on the KF's. I've heard a lot of good things about the 3's.

    The fun part is finding a wire type and gauge that meets your stiffness, heatflux, mass, wraps and resistance needs. That is where I'd recommend "steamengine".

    You can simply pick a wire type, gauge, driving power and target resistance and it will fill in the blanks for you. It makes picking the right number of wraps with the right gauge (and wire type) easy.

    Be sure to have some pictures of that Rebel when it comes in!!
     

    billybc96

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    I finally received my Rebel DNA75 18650/26650 box mod from the UK this last Friday. Below are some pics of it alongside an iStick Pico 75 for size comparison.

    Dimensions of the Rebel DNA75 are as follows. Height: 84mm (3 & 6/16 in.), Width: 50mm (~2 in.), Depth: ~24mm (~1 in.) at front / ~30mm (~1 & 3/16 in.) at rear, Empty Weight: 63 g (2.2 oz.), Loaded (w/1x26650 battery) Weight: 150 g (5.25 oz.). The fully loaded weight (w/1x26650 battery, Kayfun Mini V3 Plus RTA and juice) of the Rebel DNA75 is 232 g (8.15 oz.). The fully loaded weight (w/1x18650 battery, Kayfun Mini V3 Plus RTA and juice - plus a 12g/0.5oz heat sink) is 233 g (8.2 oz.). So both mods, in use, weight almost exactly the same. That is kind of amazing, considering how much larger the Rebel mod is compared to the iStick Pico, but still a bit disappointing to me.

    I haven't used the Rebel DNA75 much yet, but I was out and about with it earlier today. It is a definitely more shirt pocket filling mod compared to the iStick Pico, which has its advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that the mod does not fall over halfway sideways in an average shirt pocket, so that is nice, but it does sit a bit tall - which is not all that visually appealing to me. This mod can take tanks up to 26mm without overhang, so I will be looking into getting short, fat MTL RTAs, but there isn't exactly a huge selection of that type of tank out there. For now I'm just using it with the KF Mini V3 Plus.

    Assuming everything is working right with my RTA setup (which is, sadly, not always the case) I get really smooth MTL TC power delivery using SS 316L on the Rebel DNA75. Much more so than I get with my iStick Pico 75 in SS TC mode. I can actually do alright (well enough, I guess) with the iStick using 0.9 ohm or so SS builds, but not so much with 0.5 ohm or so builds. I will try some Resitherm NiFe30 builds as well, but I am still playing around with figuring out how to use EScribe, so that will just have to wait until later.

    Rebel Mod Image 1.JPG

    Rebel Mod Image 2.JPG

    Rebel Mod Image 6.JPG

    Rebel Mod Image 5.JPG
     

    billybc96

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    Ordering a Rebel one from the UK, for delivery in the US, took approximately three weeks to arrive. If you ordered a somewhat similar Boxer Mod model, which are made in the US, I assume it should take somewhat less time to receive it, if you live in the US. But, honestly, I'm not absolutely sure.

    I don't actually use my Rebel 3D printed mod much at the moment, just because of its size. Overall I also prefer how a silicone sleeved mod feels in my hand as well, in comparison, but I do believe silicone sleeves are available for any if these 3D printed mods. As is, the finish on the Rebel Mod feels a bit too much like sandpaper.

    Power delivery is smooth from the DNA chipset, but I don't like that there isn't as much I can set directly on the device. Plugging the device into my PC to do any "advanced" settings at all is rather annoying, and I find I don't end up doing that at all. If I got another one of these I would get it with a YiHi chipset, which both manufacturers do have available.

    There is a small DNA60 chipset Boxer Mod coming out sometime, supposedly in the near future, that looks promising for something really lightweight and small. It looks like it would be a V2 version, which means it would have an integral silicone sleeve that comes with it, but that has to be removed to replace the battery, which doesn't seem all that user friendly.
     
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    ShowerHead

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    Feb 23, 2014
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    I don't actually use my Rebel 3D printed mod much at the moment, just because of its size. Overall I also prefer how a silicone sleeved mod feels in my hand as well, in comparison, but I do believe silicone sleeves are available for any if these 3D printed mods. As is, the finish on the Rebel Mod feels a bit too much like sandpaper.

    Thanks for the info on the feel of the Rebels. I have two other nylon/plastic mods here and find the same thing with the feel. If you want to try one that I like a lot, look at the Tesla Wye. Has a great 'soft touch' kind of feel to it. Dual battery, weighs in at 67g empty. Does an excellent job with TC. Fairly dirt cheap as well. Not a DNA or Yihi board, but it reads all my tanks exactly the same as my DNAs do and vapes equally nice for my vaping style.

    Now, back to the original thread...
     
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    GeorgeS

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  • May 31, 2015
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    My third Boxer (this time BLUE) ought to be arriving today!!

    While I do have an extra 350jv2 PCB I figured that as much use that I get out of my Boxer I'd surely miss it if it died on me.

    As others have mentioned, the 3D printed size is not very "pocketable" however I really like the lack of weight. Going by "feel" the Boxer is 1/2 as much as the all metal #6.

    Next color up: RED.

    (I've migrated both #6's and my current 26650 Boxer to KFv5's, I can get 2-3x tank fills on the #6's per charge. Pretty cool)
     
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    billybc96

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    My third Boxer (this time BLUE) ought to be arriving today!!

    While I do have an extra 350jv2 PCB I figured that as much use that I get out of my Boxer I'd surely miss it if it died on me.

    As others have mentioned, the 3D printed size is not very "pocketable" however I really like the lack of weight. Going by "feel" the Boxer is 1/2 as much as the all metal #6.

    Next color up: RED.

    (I've migrated both #6's and my current 26650 Boxer to KFv5's, I can get 2-3x tank fills on the #6's per charge. Pretty cool)

    How is the color finish holding up on all your different colored Boxers? My black one has been holding up well, but does end up looking a little dull after regular use, with dirt build-up from my hands.

    It still looks like new, if and when I wipe all that off, so it's not a major issue, but these are definitely not sleek and shiny looking type mods. I do kind of like that utilitarian aspect of them, but I think maybe I like sleek and shiny a bit more? At least when combined with a good grip. I hate super sleek and slippery mods.
     

    GeorgeS

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  • May 31, 2015
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    Oregon, USA
    How is the color finish holding up on all your different colored Boxers? My black one has been holding up well, but does end up looking a little dull after regular use, with dirt build-up from my hands.

    It still looks like new, if and when I wipe all that off, so it's not a major issue, but these are definitely not sleek and shiny looking type mods. I do kind of like that utilitarian aspect of them, but I think maybe I like sleek and shiny a bit more? At least when combined with a good grip. I hate super sleek and slippery mods.

    The RED one appears a bit faded discolored (from atomizer leaks). The black one looks brand new.
    35841561014_f1a1bfacb1_z.jpg


    I'm really happy with the shade of the Blue. (at least new that is) It will likely live inside most of the time along with its black brother.
     
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